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Old December 28, 2018, 05:45 PM   #26
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I hunt with 30-06,270 and few others. Handloader Special Edition, Top 10 Reloded rifle Cartridge, it''s base on top dies sales from Hornady,Lee,RCBS,Lyman and Redding and it's year behind.

The 6.5 CM was 3rd, 300 Blackout was 8th. 1st 223,2nd 308 4th 30-06 ,5th 243 and 6th 300mag,7th 270,9th 7mag,10th 22-250. Real interesting list.
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Old December 28, 2018, 07:21 PM   #27
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It has a huge history heritage wise of over 100 years in its same identical form.

Not to mention a lot of wars and exposure to all those who served.
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Old December 28, 2018, 07:32 PM   #28
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No one needs a sports-car, but the more practical station-wagon is hard to sell anymore. The '06 is perhaps ideal for Elk; more than adequate for Deer; and less effective than a 375 magnum for Brown Bear, though proven to work with heavy bullets.
Well we have a Diesel Station wagon so maybe that is why I have a target 06? Love the car, always liked station wagons, piss on image. And it gets 42 mpg on the highway and 32 all around (and god knows it can go faster than I want to)

30-06 took more Brown Bear than all calibers combined ever all years.

Since it came out it was the go to cartridges for AK where they were hunted extensively, mostly property protection and to keep them away from the wee ones and your wife! (I know its a bad attitude but ....)

375 HH was eventually the DE-rigour with guides, now its the 444 with hard case, go figure.

But my best write up was EK and a Grizz that stalked a group of 5 hunters down on the AK Peninusla.

30-06 on up to 35 Whalen (they were hunting caribou not Mr. Brown who decided to hunt them though that is very rare - they did back track, found where he cut their trail and started following them so it was deliberate)

Upshot, 5 very experienced hunters formed the firing line and had at the Bear as it came up the slope of a knoll they were on.

Most hit (if not all) and it dies about 8 feet from them.

If you can get a good shot in anything from 270 on up will kill a Brown bear (others lower but more iffy)

If it gets pissed off, then 458 Winchester is iffy.

20 mm might be a good guarantee.
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Old December 29, 2018, 08:40 AM   #29
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My first CF rifle was a .30-06 Savage that I handloaded for. A bunch of us had the same chambering and we used them to hunt woodchucks and deer. I never got a deer with mine, as they were scarce around here in the 1950s. I sold it, bought a .22-250 Rem 700 and shot a deer with it that fall! DUH!

Anyway, the '06 will go through a 3" hardwood and kill a deer standing behind it. I doubt if many other cartridges like the .243 would do that, maybe not even the .270.

I now use a .270 Win and shoot 130 grain pointed soft or plastic-tipped bullets. The reason was that we hunt a very straight, abandoned county road where we can kill deer out to 400 yards or so, but often don't have more than 5 seconds to aim and fire before they cross to the other side. I've killed deer at 300-400 yards with the .270 and, aiming for the shoulder, recover them in the road 99% of the time.

Because we don't have much time to estimate range and hold-over, the flatter shooting the cartridge, the better. Between the .270 and .06, there's a significant difference in trajectory out at 350 yards, so that's why I use it. It may not be quite as good in the woods, but I rarely have any trouble using the .270 there.
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Old December 29, 2018, 04:49 PM   #30
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Good logic, works for you, that is what counts.

I can do the same thing with a 06 and a lighter bullet.
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Old December 29, 2018, 07:03 PM   #31
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30-06 HAD it's place 50 years ago. The 308 ended the usefulness of the 30-06. 50 years from now the 6.5 CM will end the usefulness of the 308. Absolutely nothing wrong with owning the tried and true '06. My M1 and my 03A4 both have eternally warm places in my heart but as practical continuous shooters there is better, and less recoil abusive caliber choices,
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Old December 29, 2018, 07:18 PM   #32
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The reality is that its not been replaced, alternatives exist and more come up all the time.

Better? If I am going to deal with a moose or a possible grizzly, my choice is a 06

7mm would be ok as well. 6.5 will do the moose but not the Brown bear as well as a 06.

None of anything out there is such a game changer as to drop the 06 popularity which continues to be at the top (any new gun comes out in 06 and 270 first)

Not sure if that will ever change.
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Old December 29, 2018, 11:51 PM   #33
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I'm good with wagons and I'm good with the '06. I'm shopping for a new hunting rifle and while I entertained the idea of a 308 briefly, '06 is what I'll get.
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Old December 30, 2018, 02:09 AM   #34
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The 308 ended the usefulness of the 30-06.
This is near to blasphemy, brothers....
I believe that the truth is hard to fully know,,, but I'm under the impression that the 7.62 Nato was designed to replace the military version of the 30-'06 with a cartridge that had similar ballistics while making improvements relating to automatic weapons. Probably in an attempt to increase the cyclic rate of fire via a shorter bolt stroke? And they were looking at the 300 Savage as almost exactly what they were after, but not quite, so they tweaked that cartridge a little. Winchester, either caught wind of it, or perhaps they were involved; reading the writing on the wall, they quickly came out with the 308 Winchester. There are others here that would know the story more accurately, I am sure....
If choosing between two otherwise identical bolt action rifles, I would take the 30-'06 over the 308 everytime. If I had to give up the 270 for another caliber in its class, I would choose the '06.
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Old December 30, 2018, 06:45 AM   #35
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My understanding, for whatever it's worth:

Factory loadings for the '06, I know, used to be 50,000 psi. The .308 began life at 55,000 psi. Ergo, basically equal muzzle velocities from 18" to 22" barrels, with 150-grain bullets.

My pet '06 is a Wby Mk V with a 26" barrel and I handload to right at 55,000 psi. The result is an advantage of some 300 ft/sec for me, over the usual .308. A 150-grain bullet at about 3,150 ft/sec.

Seems to me, then, that if you don't handload and you use an off-the-rack bolt gun, the only real difference is the length of the receiver. Performance with 150- and 165-grain bullets is right at the same.
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Old December 30, 2018, 11:28 AM   #36
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Yep, but if you want to go heavier? The norm for the day up here was the 220 grain soft-point as you often had to deal with Brown Bears either hunting or keeping them out o the front yard.

You want a flatter shooter, 06 with a 130 grain bullet (or 140)

Also note that a true 7.62 NATO changed the twist rate to 1-12. Most 308 are 1-10.

308 in 1-10 can also shoot a lighter bullet as well as 30-06.

But the nothing has displaced the 30-06, it still works as good as it ever did. Complimented it, supplemented it, alternatives all true.

SAMI has the max pressure at 60,200 for 06. Modern rifle can take advantage of that vs the older lower commercial loadings.

All said and done, an Elk is not going to know the difference if you shot it with an 06, a 6.5 or a 308 as long as you have the right bullet and velocity.
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Old December 30, 2018, 08:29 PM   #37
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The pesky difference between CUP and PSI.

Correct me if I am wrong,but the original Garand spec of 50,000 was a CUP spec. I don't think they had the piezo tech to measure PSI back then.As they had not forseen the tech,maybe some incorrectly substituted the term psi for CUP.

Its no secret the Garand needs to be held to 50,000 CUP or less,AND it must use proper burn curve powder for correct port pressure.That contributes to many folks short selling the 30-06.Folks think in terms of 4895 or 4064 powders.

Don't shoot them in a Garand,but you load the 30-06 for a strong modern bolt gun with a powder like IMR4350 (not real exotic) and No! my friend,the .308 does not make the '06 obsolete.


Don't get me wrong,the 308 is a fine cartridge,and I'd happily own a 308 bolt hunting rifle..I'd recommend one..but if I'm buying a bolt hunting rifle...I "feel" a 180 gr bullet advantage with an '06. I'm not a 150 gr guy.


YOU,however,may choose as you please! YOU choose what is best for YOU.


I'll decide what is BEST for ME
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Old December 30, 2018, 09:07 PM   #38
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ecause we don't have much time to estimate range and hold-over, the flatter shooting the cartridge, the better. Between the .270 and .06, there's a significant difference in trajectory out at 350 yards, so that's why I use it. It may not be quite as good in the woods, but I rarely have any trouble using the .270 there.

I do not have an unkind word to say about the 270.Great cartridge,and it works for you! Carry on.


I just looked at my Nosler book.I'm comparing your 130 gr Ballistic Tip BC .433 MV 3100

The 150 gr Ballistic tip,BC.435 gets a MV of 3000 loaded with IMR4350. from a 30-06.

I don't deny 100 fps is an advantage. I doubt it makes a tremendous difference in max point blank range
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Old December 30, 2018, 09:31 PM   #39
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Yeah, the 270 shoots slightly flatter, but for the shooter that knows their rifle, I don't think it makes any real difference, especially when hunting, with or without a range-finder. Everybody else would miss a basketball at 100 yards if they didn't have their trusty bench rest for a crutch. The 30-'06 is every bit as good as the 270; each has their own very slight advantages over the other. Between the two, I honestly think it's a tie. Pick either one in the rifle that fits you best. But for Pete's sake, don't handicap yourself with a 308!
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Old December 30, 2018, 09:43 PM   #40
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I love my 30-06. From 20 yard shots in dense undergrowth to 300 yards plus across soybean fields it has never let me down. I had a .270 and a .308. I still have my 30-06. I also still use a 30-30. Nothing wrong with the old calibers.
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Old December 30, 2018, 10:58 PM   #41
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It has been years sense the short magnums and the ultra magnums came out and the 270 and 30-06 are still doing the job even though none of them ended the life of the 30-30 that is still a go to firearm.
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Old December 31, 2018, 12:51 AM   #42
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I agonized over which hunting rifle to get for almost two years. I wanted something I could use in Alaska if the opportunity ever came up. I did not want a magnum and I wasn't sure which action to choose. I initially chose a Remington 7600 pump gun, but it just felt wonky to me and I sold it shortly thereafter.

But I could have pretty much bought any rifle out there in any caliber I wanted. I was even on the .35 train for awhile, thinking a .35 caliber non-magnum would fit the bill nicely on any game in Alaska but still be viable on the white tails or hogs.

But of all the makes and models of rifles and mind numbing choices of calibers I chose a Browning X-Bolt in .30-06 with iron sights. My reasons for choosing it are that bolt actions are the most robust and simplest of all actions aside from single shots. The .30-06 is very capable on any game in North America, it's affordable and it's available almost everywhere.
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Old January 1, 2019, 02:33 PM   #43
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All true and its really one of the best if not the best all around Alaska game cartridge.

Huge numbers of Brown Bear were taken back in the day with 30-06 when we weren't Safari hunters and the magnum is the only way to go. Shoot, Lewis and Clark were killing Grizzlies with black powder and air guns (granted it was some hair rising tales)

From 1903 on through the 70s, the 30-06 was the go to cartridge in AK and still is. A lot of bears were shot in defense of property and to make the area safe for the kids (not trophy hunting)

Once trophy hunting got to be the big thing, then you had to have the big magnums (said shooters backed up by a guide with a big gun who shot right after the client) .

My dad hunted Sitka Black til deer with his 06 (its what he had, the other gun was a 270 that was reserved for a sheep hunt that never happened)

He shot moose with it. Happily for all he never had to shoot a bear with it but that is what he would have done as well if needed.

Undergunned was not even a word known back in those days. The poacher would shoot moose with a 22 (in the lungs and let them bleed out quietly)

If it had been wide spread, the 7.5 Swiss would have given it a run for its money, but no advantage really other than a more efficient cartridge and we are talking minutia.

As noted, the 30-30 is still a ubiquitous caliber in some areas because it works for them (West Virginia comes to mind and yes I was there and yes that is what they were headed out with)

Now a 223 with the right bullets is a fine deer gun, not what I would want to shoot a Caribou or a Moose with.

But the 30-06 does them all, and if that is all you had and you needed to kill Cape Buff and Elephants, it would do that as well (and one guy did with picked shots and a smaller caliber.
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Old January 1, 2019, 10:55 PM   #44
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rc20 didn't you post

It has a huge history heritage wise of over 100 years in its same identical form.

Not to mention a lot of wars and exposure to all those who served.
December 28, 2018 06:45 PM
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Old January 2, 2019, 03:58 PM   #45
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"Comparing the .308 (which is a fine round) to a 30-06 is probably not a good choice. The only thing they have in common is the caliber/bullet diameter. The muzzle velocity and energy of the 06 is superior and therefore broadens the range of game animals that can be ethically taken."

I have to question that. A few years back I'd gotten into some Winchester .308 and 30-06 ammo cheap due to a store's liquidation sale. Both cartridges came with the 180 gr. Power Point bullet. My plan was to shoot them up to get the brass. Be fine for practice from hunting positions. I decided to run a box of the .308's and 30-06's over the chronograph just to see how much difference there would be in speed. After, isn't the 30-06 supposed to be a higher velocity round than the .308? Long story short, the .308's average was about 2610 FPS. The 30-06 2620FPS Those were averages from 20 rounds of each cartridge. Both rifles had 22" barrels. I also had a custom Mauser with 24" barrel and a Ruger #1 B with 26" barrel and the Ruger was the only one than came close to what Winchester claims their 180 gr. ammo is supposed to deliver.

On another note, anyone who says the .308 isn't any good with a 220 gr. bullet hasn't tried it. Trying to find pressure tested data for a bullet that heavy wasn't easy but I found an earlier copy of those one book/one caliber books and they had data. It showed the highest velocity used W760 for nearly 2300 FPS. From my Winchester M70 .308 the top load did 2310 FPS with a .375" group at 100 yards. Bullet holes showed no sign of tipping. If the velocity of thar 220 gr. bullet is like what I found in the 180 gr. bullet test, then factory 220 gr. 06 just might not be delivering the 2400 FPS claimed.

Before anyone gets all bent out of shape, I know darn well the 30-06 can be loaded significantly hotter. As a matter of fact, one of my elk loads does 2800 FPS with the 180 gr. Hornady Interlock using H4350 from the 22" barrel of a Remington M700 Classic.

I've hunted since I was 11 years old, started with a 30-30 in 1949. Used it until age 16 when I got my first 30-06. I didn't switch to the .308 until 1973. My heavy old 30-06 was too much for the very heavy chain smoker that I was. Found a deal on a new Remington 660 in .308 and used it for years. Later on I got a Ruger RSI and liked it even better. I don't hunt deer anymore and do an occasional cow elk cull hunt on a ranch. My main rifle for that is usually my .35 Whelen but you can be sure the 30-06 goes along as back up rifle.

Col. Whelen got it right when he said, "Th 30-06 is never a mistake."
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Old January 2, 2019, 04:41 PM   #46
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I've hunted with the 30-06 very little, actually just started with it a few years ago. I've hunted with the 308 a whole lot but never use bullet's heavier than 165 gr. In my 30-06 never below 180gr. Were I to go to Alaska and hunt big bears, I would not buy another rifle, I'd take my 30-06 loaded with 200gr bullet's! For me the advantage in any cartridge is how heavy a bullet they can handle without killing on both ends! I've tried 200gr bullet's in a 308 years ago in Alaska. Didn't have a 30-06 then. Have to say that if I had to use my 308 to hunt big bears, it would not phase me. Just up the bullet weight! Not a 30-06 but then still more than adequate with a good bullet for the game hunted. This of course is to take nothing away from the 30-06! One thing that really needs to be understood about hunting dangerous game is it is not a long range sport. To many people talk about going out and shooting deer and elk ect at long long range. Keep something in mind, you take a shot at the bad bear at those ranges and wound it, some one has to go in after it and it will fight back! I would shoot at a deer or maybe even elk at 300 yds, would not consider that with dangerous animal. For me I'm talking a hundred yds or less. Why? I shoot much better at 100yds than I do at any range much farther! I think prudence being the better part of valor, dangerous game deserves your best shot! 30-06 or even 308 with the right bullet, 200gr or up, is up to the task I'm sure.
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Old January 2, 2019, 05:23 PM   #47
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Still what I recommend for general hunting. I hunted with one for years that I just passed down to my oldest son.

The only thing that moved me from .30-06 was my dream rifle, a Weatherby in .338-06, was offered to me by the factory rep at a price well below cost. A .243 and a .30-06 makes a great set for doing most anything in the lower 48.
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Old January 2, 2019, 11:52 PM   #48
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"Comparing the .308 (which is a fine round) to a 30-06 is probably not a good choice. The only thing they have in common is the caliber/bullet diameter. The muzzle velocity and energy of the 06 is superior and therefore broadens the range of game animals that can be ethically taken."
The reason why .308 (7.62mm NATO M80) and 30.06 M2 Ball are for all practical purposes the same at ranges up to 1000 meters is by design.

7.62mm NATO gave the US Army the same performance as .30 cal M2 in a smaller, lighter, package.


Quote:
These two cartridges are very similar. Especially the military versions.
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You cannot notice the differences in accuracy at ranges under 1000 Yards. Most hunters will require a 600-800 Yardage. The 30 06 Vs 308 ballistics are practically the same within hunting range. Past 1000 Yards, however, there is a lot of visible difference on the 308 Vs 30-06 Ballistics Chart.
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So, the 308 clearly beats the 30-06 on accuracy.
But only past 1000 meters. Something that is not relevant to most people.

Quote:
The 308 has less recoil than the 30-06.
Quote:
Finally, despite all the modifications you can make, the 30-06 trajectory will always remain similar to the 308's trajectory.
Quote:
Where the 308 Winchester struggles slightly to keep up with its counterpart is in the muzzle velocity department.
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The reason being that it is able to accommodate more powder.
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On power, none of the two has a clear hunting edge. Both provide more than enough power to bring down big game like elk. In short, both are equally useful when it comes to hunting big game.
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In a nutshell, the 30-06 and 308 are too similar to merit a change into either.
https://outdoorever.com/308-vs-30-06/
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Old January 3, 2019, 02:39 AM   #49
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I own 3 30-06's and it was the very first caliber I ever reloaded. Love my 06's.
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Old January 3, 2019, 06:39 AM   #50
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30-06...a fighting cartridge for half a century. I would bet that more of OUR enemy combatants that were killed by rifle fire were done in by the '06...Col Cooper opined that "the 30-06 will do anything that needs doing"..."supremely suitable for fighting"...."if you can't do it with a 30-06, you probably can't do it"

Somebody is always trying to sell you something, whether you need it or not...the '06 ain't spot news, maybe not cool or sexy, but IMO the best all around cartridge ever!
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