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Old January 23, 2002, 07:54 PM   #1
sven
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Scenario: Mugging

Let's say you are in an urban environment. It is 2 AM and you are returning to your car after having a couple beers. Your CCW is under your jacket, in a holster of some sort.

Your car is parked in a slightly more industrial area...

As you approach your car and reach to open the door, a man of approximately the same size and weight as you springs from cover and sticks his gun into your side (feels real)... then no-so-politely asking you for your money and your keys.

My question for the forum is:

How would YOU respond?
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Old January 23, 2002, 08:05 PM   #2
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Lemme see here, I wouldn't have parked my car in a crappy area then returned alone and possibly drunk a 2am. If I was drunk I would have gotten a cab to the front door of the bar and come for the car later. If I wasn't drunk I would have returned to my car in this desolate area with my gun still concealed but in hand and ALERT! Thugs don't have cloaking devices, he didn't sneak up, you failed to notice him there.
Now if I neglected all of that, I'd give him the money real nice and hope he don't shoot becasue odds are he's got you dead.
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Old January 23, 2002, 08:17 PM   #3
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First, I would pivot 72 degrees to my left, raising my right hand in a Shao-Lin tiger claw (southern style) while simultaneously rotating my left ankle counter-clockwise, coiled to deliver a crushing -- no, wait. What Navy joe said. But that would never happen to me. My wife's pregnant, and I'm not allowed to have fun anymore.
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Old January 23, 2002, 08:35 PM   #4
C.R.Sam
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Victom in that scenario has already made several grave mistakes. Safe bet that anything tried from there will be wrong too.

sometimes the shepherd thins the herd, sometimes the wolves do it for him.

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Old January 23, 2002, 08:46 PM   #5
HAWK-HKG11
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Yeah......The only thing I see there is to give up your wallet, and hope it has enough cash for him not to shoot you. But I could be wrong.
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Old January 23, 2002, 11:27 PM   #6
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Fall to your knees while screaming loudly "OH GOD DON'T KILL ME."
Next step is hope he is not into kinky sex.

On a serious note;

1. I would NEVER park in an area, expecting to come back late at night where I could be suprised dead to rights.

2. I do not drink and then return to my car expecting to go anywhere.

3. I would, if forced to chose a less than ideal parking area, approach my vehicle at the ready while carefully observing the area and situation.
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Old January 24, 2002, 09:22 AM   #7
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Guns and beer dont mix. I wouldnt be packing.

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Old January 24, 2002, 09:43 AM   #8
Kirk Keller
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What Kharn said...

In my neck of the woods a CHP (concealed handgun permit) forbids you to carry into a bar or while drinking. WORLD of heat on your head if you discharge and blow high numbers.
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Old January 24, 2002, 10:37 AM   #9
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Carrying a gun after "a couple of beers" can put you in the can and get your license revoked.

Same scenario, minus the booze:

I would probably comply with BG for a moment until I was able to take the situation by the handle. He hasn't killed me yet, so there is at least a possibility that his intention is merely to rob me, and this will buy me some time before:

A) He has second thoughts about the whole thing and makes away harmlessly; or
B) He falls down in a pool of blood and foaming piss.
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Old January 24, 2002, 05:48 PM   #10
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My experience...

It ain't like that... I was walking beside a pub, about to go in, at approx. 9:00 p.m.

Muggers don't like folks who've spent all their cash - they like it BEFORE you spend it...

I was in a "corridor" area, where my only choices were "forward" or backward. The muggers came around the corner when I was about halfway through the 25 yard long area. They immediately drew (one had a problem getting it out - hammer was caught) and ran up to myself and the person I was with, and relieved us of our cash. They were VERY emphatic in that we not move. Mine reached into my wallet pocket and lifted the wallet... I had the cash in my hand, because I'd been fishing in my pocket for the cash to pay the cover. They grabbed, and beat feet. Took 'em MAYBE 25-30 seconds. After that 25-30 seconds, I found myself about 10' from one of my shoes, which I'd managed to step out of. I was not struck, nor was I wrestled with.

If I'd had a firearm, I would have had a chance for mine, since he was slow on the draw, but my companion was already covered... I was far more concerned with not making 'em nervous enough to shoot us, since I'm not a small person...

Today, I'm FAR more likely to (a) not go to places like that; or (b) take a taxi to/from the front door.
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Old January 24, 2002, 07:36 PM   #11
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I have to be home before dark.
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Old January 24, 2002, 08:27 PM   #12
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We have played similar senerios with paintball pistols in training. The 7th degree Kenpo master I used to train under was fond of teaching disarm techniques against attackers with handguns and knives. They all seemed to work pretty good with rubber pistols and rubber knives. But when I talked some of the black belts into trying the same tricks with a paintball pistol and a large magic marker to simulate a knife it did not go as well. In the majority of the situations, if the robber has the drop on you (i.e. gun in the ribs or knife against flesh) you will take a hit or severe cut if you resist.
In running the test with 4 second and third degree Kenpo black belts, We (white belts) started with a paintball pistol aimed at thier back at contact range. In an average of 3 out of four times attempted disarms resulted in the victim recieving a hit to the spine or lung area. With the large magic marker simulating a knife, the victims recieved what would have been severe cuts or stabs in all but one test.
After the results were related to the head of the school he asked for a demonstration. After commenting quite helpfully on technique and set up he us asked to try him. Results were somewhat better. Considering a master teacher of Kenpo 7th degree dan ect. I would have expected so. But he still took serious hits to the shoulder, spine and arm 3 out of 5 times.
Looking back now his success seems more a function or timing and distraction than of technique.
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Old January 24, 2002, 09:02 PM   #13
LASur5r
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Give it up!

First, shouldn't be at a place drinking with your CCW from what I've heard from other TFL'ers who carry. Second, if he's got his gun in your side....he's got the drop on yah, partner.
Give up the keys and the money, and watch for a possible opening and only go for it if you figure your time's up and he is going to plug you. Your life isn't worth giving up for your keys and your money in your wallet.
Been there, done that. In my case, I had one of the gunman under control...the other guy pointed his gun at my wife.....I gave up the money. It ain't nice, what they do to you for resisting and making them look bad.
Being in soCal...I wasn't licensed to carry. Little uneven odds.
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Old January 25, 2002, 08:24 AM   #14
David Scott
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Given that I was unaware enough to be in this situation, it might go like this:

"Oh please, please don't hurt me, don't kill me, my family needs me... Here's my keys , and my wallet."

Extend and jingle keys in left hand as right hand sweeps back toward 9mm "wallet". As he's distracted by the shiny, jingly things (like any monkey would be) I draw, and as the weapon clears leather my left thumb presses the car-alarm panic button to disorient him further. Then, I simply shoot him untl he falls down and lies still.

Then, get my back to a solid wall and wait for the cops.
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Old January 25, 2002, 12:03 PM   #15
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if i am in an urban environment where my safety is threatened by the local hooligans, the last thing on my mind is having a few beers. any dulling of my senses would not be smart.
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Old January 25, 2002, 01:09 PM   #16
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ok, ok, the scenario wasn't very realistic. great points, all. thanks!
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Old January 25, 2002, 05:50 PM   #17
C.R.Sam
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Realistic scenario. Portrayal of willing victom asking to be fleeced.

Sam
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Old January 27, 2002, 04:04 PM   #18
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and NONE of you guys have ever been caught unprepared? What a laugh. Now, none of us PLAN to have a bad day, or a brain fart, but ya all knows it happens.

The only thing to do if you find yourself in this type of situation, and believe me, everyone of us can get caught off guard, is to give it up, and pray the guy does not pop a cap on you.
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Old January 27, 2002, 06:03 PM   #19
Kirk Keller
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Nope Mannlicher

Never said I don't make mistakes or get caught unprepared, just said I don't drink and carry. In fact, I just don't drink.
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Old January 31, 2002, 02:30 PM   #20
Oleg Volk
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Haven't been in that situation yet but the plan is to "trip and fall down, fire up". Won't stand around and be an easy traget for the perp. If two of them, take the closest one and hope that runt wastes #2.
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Old January 31, 2002, 02:40 PM   #21
Betty
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Oleg,
We must have completely gone downhill if we're hanging around bars at 2am and chugging down beer!
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Old January 31, 2002, 02:54 PM   #22
Oleg Volk
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Funny, I just sent this to a friend from MN:
Quote:
} Have you been to Seanachie's pub yet in the downtown? I
}LOVE their bread pudding with carmel sauce...I intend to have more when I
}visit again! I definitely recommend it to you...

I can't legally enter a pub, you know. We legal carry permit holders are
kinda like the coloreds were once...not welcome in certain places.
But thanks for the hint, I will recommend it to friends.
So, no, wouldn't be going to pubs but could just as easily get stuck up after watching a movie.
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Old January 31, 2002, 04:11 PM   #23
Erik
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CCW holders drink. That's a fact of life.

It may be debatable whether that's prudent or not, or how much may be prudent, but it doesn't change the fact that they drink.

Something to remember in a scenario such as this one:

Depending on how many "a few" is and the particulars of your state laws you are likely to be vigorously prosecuted should you survive, regardless of how justifiable the shooting may be.
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Old July 18, 2006, 12:45 PM   #24
atlctyslkr
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Give him what he wants, when he turns his back and walks off yell "Hey".
He'll turn around, it's a natural response, last think he'll remember is the muzzle flash.
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Old July 18, 2006, 01:38 PM   #25
Lion In Winter
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Give it up while backing up. Go to cover(your car) and do what is required at that point..
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