The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 4, 2019, 05:17 PM   #51
Carl the Floor Walker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2017
Posts: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDW4ME View Post
I do not bet my life on 380 and I would not want my wife or child to either.
A very few 380 loads consistently expand and penetrate 12-18'' which is a desirable standard.
IME, a small 380 (LCP) recoils as much or more than a 9mm like Kahr CM/PM 9 and the small 380 is harder to shoot quickly & accurately than the slightly bigger 9mm.
"Better than nothing" is not the criteria I use to select a pistol that my be the primary thing stopping somebody(s) from killing me.
My philosophy is of the pistols you own carry the pistol you would prefer in your hand if you had to defend your life.
Sticking with two small pistols for comparison:
Ruger LCP: Gold Dot 90 gr. 841 fps / 141# KE
Ruger LCP: Ranger T 95 gr. 876 fps / 162# KE
Kahr PM9: Winchester Ranger T 124 +P @ 1,139 fps / 357# KE
Kahr PM9: Corbon 115 +P JHP @ 1,264 fps / 408# KE
Those 9mm loads generate more than double the KE of the 380 loads.
Do you want to settle for "adequate" for your daughter / yourself or would you rather bet life on "preferred".
You really need to speak for yourself. Just because YOU cannot shoot a small gun well, does not mean the others can't. And you need to do more research on 380. And a Small 380 will Not have as much recoil and a small 9mm. Where you get that information is totally bogus. Shoot a Kahr 380 then a Kahr CM 9mm. If you think the recoil is the same? Lol, not even close.
Better than nothing is not your criteria? Sorry Dude, a 380 is a lot more than better or nothing. Some one could same the same about a small 9. And once again, Because YOU cannot shoot one fast and accurate is surely not every body. If fact a pocket gun can be extremely fast and accurate. And no faster gun than one where the shooter has his hand on one. As in a pocket.

And please stop with the condescending remarks like Do you want to settle for "adequate" for your daughter / yourself or would you rather bet life on "preferred".

The Op's daughter made a choice and just because YOU do not agree does not mean squat. By the way, there are classes that teach Small gun defense and 380 pocket guns are in that class. If she trains often, she can and will master the small gun and be very deadly. Good for her! (and most likely she will have this small gun with her at all times. So easy to carry anywhere and everywhere. That is alone is very comforting.

Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; February 4, 2019 at 05:28 PM.
Carl the Floor Walker is offline  
Old February 4, 2019, 05:27 PM   #52
kmw1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,212
Back around 1980 when I was just starting in pistol shooting a few of us had a discussion; 38 snubby or a 14 round 380. Back then I would rather have more rounds than more powder, feel the same way today. In a time of crisis and split second reaction, how many hits on target is the average shooter going to achieve?
kmw1954 is offline  
Old February 4, 2019, 06:08 PM   #53
GarandTd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2016
Location: Western PA
Posts: 1,068
It is adequate to me. When I carry, it's what I carry. But, who am I...nobody really. To some, I'm probably a walking talking victim waiting to happen because of my choice of anemic defensive caliber. If she's comfortable with it enough to practice and carry, then YES, it IS adequate.
__________________
22lr, 20 gauge, 8mm Mauser, 35 Remington, 30-06, 5.56x45/223, 9mm, 380acp
GarandTd is offline  
Old February 4, 2019, 06:52 PM   #54
jar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2001
Location: Deep South Texas
Posts: 1,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisherman View Post
Willy, I agree with you totally. I don't force a gun on anyone. My daughter is taking the required classes at 43 years of age because she wants to not because I came up with the idea. I told her I would buy her a gun of her choice as long as she does a few things before EVER carrying concealed for PP. There are good training classes (better than the State sponsored stuff) for PP CC. They include anger management, proper loading, unloading of both semi autos and revolvers, defensive stances and point shooting for center of mass, also included is point vs aim shooting, live fire at a range, center of mass practice and yes a discussion on could your really shoot someone. I like that cause if you couldn't, your weapon could easily end up being used against you. She has shot 22, 380, 38 spc, 40 s&w, and a 45. Likes the 380 best so that is why I am buying her a 380. Of her choice.
Fortunately there are a whole host of really great small 380s available today, more than at any other period in my lifetime.

From personal experience with several of the smaller pistols.

The easiest to maintain has been my Beretta Pico. Once I learned how to do take down and reassembly the next easiest has become my Remington RM380.

The most comfortable to shoot has been the Remington RM380 followed by the Sig P290RS.

Best standard sights are the Beretta Pico and Sig P20RS withe the S&W M&P BG380 very close.

Most reliable has been interesting. I'd rank the Remington RM380 and Sig P290RS at the very top. So far they have simply not had any issues at all.
The Pico does not like older Federal JHPs.
The S&W BG380 had a strange habit of dropping the slide when I would drop an empty magazine and has gone back to the Mothership for a Spa Day.
The Ruger LCP does not have second strike capabilities and does have an annoying double reset that has caused me to pull the trigger and get nothing.
The Beretta Pico, S&W M&P Bg380, Ruger LCP and Remington RM380 were all right at or below $200.00 new from an authorized dealer. The Sig 290RS was about $100.00 more.

The Sig and Remington are the heaviest of the group at about 16oz max. That's still lighter than my snubbies. The Ruger LCP is the lightest of the group withe the Pico and Smith in the middle.

Of the group, the Sig and the Remington are by far the easiest to rack the slide and have the smoothest, crispest triggers. On all of the little pocket pistols the trigger is long with a long reset, but that is classic DA. All have true second strike capabilities except the Ruger LCP.

The Remington and the Beretta come standard with ambidextrous magazine releases.

The Smith can be ordered with a safety. The safety does work and I like that since at times I open carry. Having a safety adds just a slight margin should someone snatch my gun, a moment for me to transition to plan B. When carrying open or concealed OWB I also try to always use a holster with some form of retention.

All are 6+1 standard except the Sig. It came with two magazines, a 6+1 and a 7+1.
__________________
To be vintage it's gotta be older than me!
jar is offline  
Old February 4, 2019, 07:23 PM   #55
Chettt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 30, 2006
Posts: 231
Your daughter shouldn't be alone when locking up a business and making the cash drop. I would look for a way for her to leave with the other employees and deposit the cash during the day.
Chettt is offline  
Old February 4, 2019, 07:52 PM   #56
Carl the Floor Walker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2017
Posts: 405
You would have a hard time trying to tell me that the Pico is not at the top of most reliable. I have two. One has WELL over 2500 rounds of flawless shooting. I say 2500, because that is when I stopped counting a long time ago. (I shoot them at least once a week. The other has over 1500 rds. of the same flawless shooting. I have no idea how many rounds you have shot through yours. I have shot the Remington and the 290. The Pico and the Kahr are both very mild, and more so than the Remington, the heavier 290 was a nice shooter as well. The Pico has very little muzzle flip. Both the Pico and the Kahr feel about the same. I have ran both guns against the LCP's and no contest in recoil and muzzle flip. Both did significantly better.
I really do not understand why you are focused on a older rounds. Might just want to get rid of them and purchase some newer ammo.
Yes, the Sig has a lighter, more crisp trigger, but that is one reason I do not carry a Sig, I prefer double action for a Pocket gun.
And yes Pico has Double Strike capability which is a huge plus.[/B]
You did not mention that both the Kahr and the Pico are rated for Plus P ammo. And Yes, while there is no

Sammi rating for 380, there is Plus P ammo. And regardless these are hot ammo. I can attest to the fact that the Pico will handle these ammunition's quite well. I have ran a lot of hot loads through the gun. I WOULD never attempt to do this with my LCP or any Gun that is not rated for use by the manufacturer or any aluminum chassis pocket gun. Underwood and Lehigh are producing some serious 380 ammo right now and they rate a lot of them with plus p.
Yes, the Remington is easier to rack, however, the Pico and the Kahr will break in very nicely and about the same as the LCP. Also you will not have to worry about the Magazine falling out with the Pico or Kahr.
New future owners that want a pocket gun would do well to try out as many as possible. The Pico IMO is top notch and my choice, however it is not a gun for everyone. There is a learning curve, but invest some time with it and you will reap huge rewards. A tough little gun that is a very smooth delightful shooter. If you like a bigger gun, then the Sig with the lighter trigger may be your choice as well as a number of the 1911 styles out there.
Thank you for your review.

Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; February 4, 2019 at 07:57 PM.
Carl the Floor Walker is offline  
Old February 4, 2019, 09:42 PM   #57
fisherman
Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2009
Posts: 39
Chettt, I like your idea of her not being alone and having one of her employees with her when she leaves. It should put a little damper on any robbery unless of course her employee sets it up. She could fix that by changing employees ever week. Thanks for the idea.
fisherman is offline  
Old February 5, 2019, 12:07 AM   #58
Cosmodragoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2013
Location: Northeastern US
Posts: 1,522
Quote:
The P230 and P232 are beautiful guns. Because they are direct blow back it totally defeats the purpose of going down to the .380 for recoil reasons. They generate far more perceived recoil than any gun that heavy in .380...
Setting aside my legitimate concerns about the defensive power of .380, there is something to be said about doing it well. Those options from Sig are as reliable as they are pretty. Sadly, the above criticism is right. These are dense little guns but for all the recoil that soaks up, they're effectively starting with more. It's just been too many decades since something like that was an ideal balance for regular carry.

If you want a better option in this category, check out the MC-14. It's a modern "compact" .380 that borrows heavily from the Browning BDA and Beretta 84. As you'll see in this excellent video review, it can take some accessories from them as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2ISQxWA7Tw
Cosmodragoon is offline  
Old February 5, 2019, 02:39 AM   #59
gc70
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 24, 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmodragoon
The reason that people often choose .380 is that it can be had in fairly small guns. That's really it.
Some people choose .380 because small guns are chambered in that caliber, but there are many other reasons. Locked-breech .380s have very low recoil, which makes tiny guns manageable. Low recoil also allows faster shooting and better accuracy, particularly by people who practice infrequently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmodragoon
If you want a better option in this category, check out the MC-14. It's a modern "compact" .380 that borrows heavily from the Browning BDA and Beretta 84. As you'll see in this excellent video review, it can take some accessories from them as well.
I am not sure the Girsan MC14 is currently being imported since Zenith stopped importing that pistol line (9/21/2017 "Zenith sold all remaining inventory of its eliminated product lines, which include Tisas, Girsan, and Tedna, to Texas-based firearms wholesale liquidator CDNN Sports."). The Beretta Cheetahs (double-stack model 84 and single-stack model 85) are indeed fine pistols. More modern alternatives include the double-stack Sig P250 (sadly discontinued) and single-stack S&W M&P 380 Shield EZ.
gc70 is offline  
Old February 5, 2019, 04:15 AM   #60
Carl the Floor Walker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2017
Posts: 405
Situational awareness is so important.
Carl the Floor Walker is offline  
Old February 5, 2019, 04:36 AM   #61
TruthTellers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 22, 2016
Posts: 2,457
The issue with .380 isn't power, it has enough of it to be useful, but more so the guns. Either they're micro pocket pistols with short barrels that are difficult to shoot or they're larger pistols that are big enough to be 9mm.

Ammo is another issue, the hollow points expanding a light 90 grain .355" bullet causes a lot of drag to lower penetration vs heavier 9mm bullets. About the best performance I've seen with .380 JHP's is nearly anything Hornady. I have a preferance for Inceptor ammo mainly because it doesn't rely on a hollow point to work, it's a light and fast bullet that tumbles after it hits tissue, so it causes good damage.

.380 is adequate, heck .32 ACP was adequate during the first half of the 20th Century.
__________________
Any good revolver > Any good semi auto
TruthTellers is offline  
Old February 5, 2019, 06:41 AM   #62
USNRet93
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by gc70 View Post
Some people choose .380 because small guns are chambered in that caliber, but there are many other reasons. Locked-breech .380s have very low recoil, which makes tiny guns manageable. Low recoil also allows faster shooting and better accuracy, particularly by people who practice infrequently.



I am not sure the Girsan MC14 is currently being imported since Zenith stopped importing that pistol line (9/21/2017 "Zenith sold all remaining inventory of its eliminated product lines, which include Tisas, Girsan, and Tedna, to Texas-based firearms wholesale liquidator CDNN Sports."). The Beretta Cheetahs (double-stack model 84 and single-stack model 85) are indeed fine pistols. More modern alternatives include the double-stack Sig P250 (sadly discontinued) and single-stack S&W M&P 380 Shield EZ.

And the Glock 42..a fine handgun, easy to shoot and carry. I have 2, and the older has been thru about 2000 rounds w/o a single fai,ure of any kind. A wee bit bigger than a lot of 'pocket' .380, but smaller than the Shield and Beretta and Browning..Inexpensive too, I got my latest pne for $323(GunBroker)..
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer

"Tools not Trophies”
USNRet93 is offline  
Old February 5, 2019, 10:05 AM   #63
Carl the Floor Walker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2017
Posts: 405
The 380 Pocket pistol can be as hard to shoot as it can be easy. That is going to be determined by the shooter. Yes, it is harder to learn, or a bigger learning curve. But a shooter that dedicates himself to shooting one, can be a deadly or more deadly than many shooters with bigger calibers. Yes, it requires time and it requires a lot of ammo down range a lot of training session. But in the right hands, they can be down right deadly. They can be very fast to draw, and again, the fastest draw will be one where the shooter has his hand on the gun.
The 380 round is is improving fast. Ammo manufacturers know that the 380 will be around for a long time and they are developing some very serious rounds. Check out Underwood and Lehigh. They are some very serious rounds. My gosh, any one hit with the Penetration or damage from one of those rounds will not be saying nonsense like "well it is better than nothing".
From results it has even been a game changer for the 32.cal. PrecisionOne was rated very well with test down some years ago. That round now has a Plus P rated round.

Here is just one video on a series of training.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=TR7H3lbNTBw
Carl the Floor Walker is offline  
Old February 5, 2019, 10:49 AM   #64
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 5,252
Quote:
"Better than nothing" is not the criteria I use to select a pistol that my be the primary thing stopping somebody(s) from killing me.
Is that a standard set by SAAMI, or is it a standard set by someone who has never shot anyone with a .380 or even a .357 or .45?

What makes the .380 only "better than nothing"? Better than nothing is having a fist, a knife, a club, or a broken bottle. Better than nothing is basic tooth and claw opposed to sitting waiting to die. A .380? You have a gun to shoot the bad guy with, and boy, it's going to put a pretty good hole in him. It continually amazes me that the round that the soviet bloc managed to kill dissidents and enemies of the people a dozen times a day with a makarov pistol, yet people here still think that the .380 is inadequate? You would rather have a 9mm? My dad thought that the 9mm was not just inadequate, but pathetic as well.

'Adequate' and 'preferred' involve more than just a person's opinion on whether or not the round will stop an attack.

Here is a simple fact. The difference between a .380 and a 9mm is the smallest possible factor in the question of whether or not a pedestrian will make it past a potential armed robber without getting hurt or dead.
__________________
None.
briandg is online now  
Old February 5, 2019, 11:05 AM   #65
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 3,211
Quote:
f you want a better option in this category, check out the MC-14. It's a modern "compact" .380 that borrows heavily from the Browning BDA and Beretta 84. As you'll see in this excellent video review, it can take some accessories from them as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2ISQxWA7Tw
Thanks for that link! I wasn't aware this existed. Nice looking and functional pistol and super review!
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is online now  
Old February 5, 2019, 11:52 AM   #66
Lohman446
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2016
Posts: 1,764
I think Brian is making the argument well. If the reason you failed to defend yourself is the difference between a quality 9MM and a quality .380 you have done or had things go immensely and unbelievably wrong.

I would dare to argue that if the person believes a .380 is better suited to him or herself and opts for a 9MM instead due to internet pressure the difference in mindset alone is likely to pose far more of a problem than the difference between a .380 and a 9MM.

Comfortable with a .380 and not a 9MM? GET THE .380.
__________________
A coward believes he will ever live if he keep him safe from strife: but old age leaves him not long in peace
though spears may spare his life. - The Havamal (Bray translation)
Lohman446 is offline  
Old February 5, 2019, 11:57 AM   #67
tipoc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 11, 2004
Location: Redwood City, Ca.
Posts: 3,708
Buying a gun for someone else is similar to buying them a pair of shoes or a dress. Not a good idea unless you know exactly what they want. Even then it's best for them to try it on before laying out the cash. So they should be the one choosing the gun and the caliber. You just along for the cash.

Encourage your daughter to go over to this web site and look around.

https://www.corneredcat.com/

Quote:
Many women have discovered that even if they have a husband or friend ready and willing to do every last bit of the legwork or even purchase a gun for them, it really pays off to do your own shopping anyway.

“My husband bought me my first gun,” says Jennie van Tuyl, a gun shop owner in Washington. “He tried to research which guns had smaller grips for me. We learned the hard way that one needs to be involved in the shopping for her own gun. I decided I needed a gun that fit my hand better and was easier to conceal.”

Many women could sing along on that chorus. The well-meant gift gun that ends up gathering dust in a deserted drawer or (better) in the back of the safe is very nearly a clich’. Almost as trite is the gun purchased by a loved one while the woman comes along as a silent partner rather than an active participant.
https://www.corneredcat.com/article/...ss-adventures/

I encourage all to look over this site it's one of the better gunsites on the web.

tipoc
__________________
1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot.
4. Identify your target and know what is beyond it.
tipoc is offline  
Old February 5, 2019, 02:04 PM   #68
DaleA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 12, 2002
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 4,230
Yeah. This above. (Post #67)
And another vote for reading "Cornered Cat". It's just plain good for everybody, man and woman and, of course, other. Just EVERYBODY!!!
DaleA is offline  
Old February 5, 2019, 02:14 PM   #69
CDW4ME
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2009
Posts: 1,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by JERRYS. View Post
hell, if that's the case get your petite daughter a short barreled .44 mag loaded with mid powered magnums. BTW, how far into the human body do you have to go to reach the heart? its about 3-4"; the brain is even less. muzzle energy is nice and all but hardly a good measure of a bullets effectiveness on a criminal.
I prefer something I can shoot quickly & accurately, Glock 19/23/32, 20/21 or 1911
Consistent expansion and 12-18'' penetration is an accepted standard for defensive ammunition, not something I made up.
__________________
I'm not inclined to disarm for a concert, game, (entertainment) and I ain't going on a plane or cruise.
"Wouldn't want to / Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.
CDW4ME is offline  
Old February 5, 2019, 02:18 PM   #70
Lohman446
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2016
Posts: 1,764
Quote:
Consistent expansion and 12-18'' penetration is an accepted standard for defensive ammunition, not something I made up.
Is this standard not met by quality .380 ammunition?
__________________
A coward believes he will ever live if he keep him safe from strife: but old age leaves him not long in peace
though spears may spare his life. - The Havamal (Bray translation)
Lohman446 is offline  
Old February 5, 2019, 02:22 PM   #71
CDW4ME
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2009
Posts: 1,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker View Post
You really need to speak for yourself. Just because YOU cannot shoot a small gun well, does not mean the others can't. And you need to do more research on 380. And a Small 380 will Not have as much recoil and a small 9mm. Where you get that information is totally bogus. Shoot a Kahr 380 then a Kahr CM 9mm. If you think the recoil is the same? Lol, not even close.
Better than nothing is not your criteria? Sorry Dude, a 380 is a lot more than better or nothing. Some one could same the same about a small 9. And once again, Because YOU cannot shoot one fast and accurate is surely not every body. If fact a pocket gun can be extremely fast and accurate. And no faster gun than one where the shooter has his hand on one. As in a pocket.

And please stop with the condescending remarks like Do you want to settle for "adequate" for your daughter / yourself or would you rather bet life on "preferred".

The Op's daughter made a choice and just because YOU do not agree does not mean squat. By the way, there are classes that teach Small gun defense and 380 pocket guns are in that class. If she trains often, she can and will master the small gun and be very deadly. Good for her! (and most likely she will have this small gun with her at all times. So easy to carry anywhere and everywhere. That is alone is very comforting.
I did speak for myself, IME = In My Experience
I had a LCP and a P3AT 380 I did shoot them in comparison with Kahr PM9 and Glock 43, the 9mm were easier to shoot quickly & accurately.
PM9 is a pocket pistol.
Condescending, like your reply?

__________________
I'm not inclined to disarm for a concert, game, (entertainment) and I ain't going on a plane or cruise.
"Wouldn't want to / Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.
CDW4ME is offline  
Old February 5, 2019, 02:52 PM   #72
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 7,686
Quote:
Sammi rating for 380, there is Plus P ammo.
Since when? Has it been recently added by SAAMI?
Any boutique ammo maker can add the moniker "+P" to the label on their over pressure ammo. But that does not mean that there is a SAAMI rating. Just that they are hijacking the term for advertising hype.
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

Last edited by Cheapshooter; February 5, 2019 at 02:59 PM.
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old February 5, 2019, 02:53 PM   #73
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 5,252
Quote:
Buying a gun for someone else is similar to buying them a pair of shoes or a dress. Not a good idea unless you know exactly what they want
Actually it can work out really well. my dad did that all of the time, both scenarios. If he couldn't find a gift, he would buy some horse-butt ugly dress for her in the wrong size, for however much he wanted to spend, and pin the receipt to it. Three days later she would have a new piece of jewelry.

He bought her a lot of fishing rods and an occasional gun, too.

Quote:
Oh, you don't like those binoculars? Too heavy? Well, that's a shame.
Why don't we just keep them, and next time we're at the store we'll find a pair that you like.

Aww, gee, honey, I really thought that you could cast a rod that long. We'll get you a new one before we go fishing again. Oh, poop. The return by has expired!

I never would have guessed that this gun would be too big for your purse! But honey, a .45 1911 is the very best self defense round there is! Don't worry, I'll keep this one, and we can go out next week and get one for you that will fit your purse.
Let me just throw this one out there.

What is keeping us from discussing getting TWO firearms? She can use a larger framed 9mm as a carry weapon during winter or when travelling, any time that she feels that she can properly conceal it. She can get a lot of practice in on it. She can have a .380 as well, and with sufficient practice she can be fluent in both languages.

Remember, if a novice is carrying two pistols with different fire control systems, it is just one step above being stupid.

Quote:
Oh, holy flying purple poop balls! a bad guy!
Will this kid who is going to be VERY distracted by the guy with the knife remember that this one has a safety, and remember to unset it? Will the kid remember that the OTHER gun is the one with the safety, and fumble around for a second or two trying to figure it out?

Then let's ask the really hard question.

What if the kid doesn't keep a round in the chamber and fumbles drawing the slide back?

when a defensive carry gun is being used by a novice it must be kept simple. Even a well trained individual should think twice about these issues.
__________________
None.
briandg is online now  
Old February 5, 2019, 03:06 PM   #74
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 5,252
It has been mentioned several times that there are so many other ways to keep this kid and her bank bag safe, and that a gun is just a very small part of the thinking.

I would want mace in her hand and keys dangling from her little finger with her other personal effects on the left side. She must Get into combat ready position before she even unlocks the door to leave, and never go off her guard until she is safe from those particular risks. This does happen, even in sleepy little towns where everyone knows each other. In fact, one of the killings that took place here was a stalker who killed the girl whom he was stalking outside the door of our mall. On the back side, in the dark, where only employees parked.

So, for example, maybe the closing night workers should be allowed to park in front?

I assure you that this suggestion to the supervisors would be more helpful than all of the discussion in the world about this cartridge.
__________________
None.
briandg is online now  
Old February 5, 2019, 05:05 PM   #75
Carl the Floor Walker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2017
Posts: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheapshooter View Post
Since when? Has it been recently added by SAAMI?
Any boutique ammo maker can add the moniker "+P" to the label on their over pressure ammo. But that does not mean that there is a SAAMI rating. Just that they are hijacking the term for advertising hype.
No one said it has been added to Saami rating. But that does not mean there is not Plus p ammo. And obviously you have not been paying attention. These are serious reputabl. manufacturers. Yes, maybe Saami needs to start adding the 380. especially since the Popularity is growing all the time. If you have not seen some of the Plus P in the many reviews and test, then sorry, not much I can do for you.

Just because you or I are not on Trumps Christmas card list, does not mean we do not exist.

Just a example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PDQcE-1T40

Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; February 5, 2019 at 05:31 PM.
Carl the Floor Walker is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10762 seconds with 9 queries