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Old January 15, 2019, 05:24 PM   #1
jar
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Comparing my Beretta Pico, S&W M&P Bodyguard 380 and Remington 380

Over on the Beretta Forum awhile ago I posted a comparison of my Beretta Pico and my Ruger LCP and their member BuckeyeBlast posted a comparison of his Pico and his Kahr P380.


Now I'd like to continue the comparisons with my Pico vs my Smith & Wesson Military & Police Bodyguard 380 which ain't big enough to carry that full name so will be known as the BG380; and my Remington RM380.


First the BG380. Like the Pico it is a polymer framed very small truly pocket pistol. Also like the Pico it has adjustable and changeable sights. The sights though are only drift adjustable, and just plain black no dot sights. Other similarities are that like the Pico it is a true traditional DA action with multi-strike capability. It came standard with two magazines, one an extended thumb rest and the other a flat plate. Capacity is 6 + 1. So far it's fed, fired and flung all the ammo I've tried with it including some of the new sintered frangible ammo.


Reviews of the BG380 have often mentioned that take down was difficult however this latest iteration is almost as easy to take down as the Pico. I simply turn the tack down lever and at about one full rotation it pops out. Assembly is as simple and again after one full turn the lever locks back in place.


There has been one problem, not big enough to warrant a trip back to the Mother Ship but certainly annoying. While the slide does lock back on an empty mag it will immediately release if I drop the mag without pushing the slide stop fully up.


The version I bought has the manual safety. I wanted that feature since I will sometimes carry this one on my hip and open carry. Even with a thumb break holster I feel better when there is also a safety just in case there were a gun grab. Having that safety might just give me a few extra seconds to transition to Plan B.










Of the four pocket guns I've reviewed in this series the Remington is the only one with a metal rather than polymer frame. It's the heaviest of the group but just slightly; it's still really small and light. Like the BG380 and Pico, it is a true DA with double strike capability. Also it too has fed, fired and flung everything I've offered it. The handgun came with two magazines, one with a flat base the other a thumb rest. Of the four sets of magazines, these seem to have the strongest springs, even stiffer than those that came with the Pico.



A common theme in most if not all the reviews of the Remington I found was about how hard it was to take down and field strip the gun. Maybe I'm just lucky or Remington has been making subtle changes over time but with this one I have found it actually does just what they claim, allow a tool less take down. I simply hold the frame left side down, slowly, very slowly pull the slide back until I see the end of the retaining pin, a slight shake and the pin does fall out. But I'l admit that initially I was thoroughly frustrated. Now that I seem to have learned how to hold my tongue it has become a piece of cake.





So on to some summaries: Comfort and Concealability.



Thinnest of the guns is the Pico, by far. But compared to the snub nose revolvers I've carried over the last half century and more they are all much thinner. They are all about the same weight as the newer Smith Airweight guns, maybe even slightly lighter when loaded. They all offer one or two more rounds initially than my snub nose revolvers.


The Pico and Remington are ambidextrous from the gitgo. The mag release on the Remington is in the conventional US location while the one on the Pico is in the same location but a pull down rather than push in.


The Remington was by far the most comfortable to shoot, mostly because it is slightly heavier but mainly because it has the longest grip of the four and maybe the widest. It simply felt like it was designed fo my hand.



The Pico has the best trigger followed by the BG380 and Remington with the LCP coming in last. Not only is the LCP not a real DA, it has a really strange double reset. When you hear or feel the first reset you get nothing by pulling the trigger. You need to let it out until the second reset before you can make it work. The BG380 trigger is smooth and lighter than the trigger on my fairly new version S&W 642. The Remington is almost identical to the BG380 with one exception; the reset on the BG380 is shorter than the RM380.



The Pico's sights are simply in a whole different class than the sights on the other three. The standard sights are true three dot and both front and rear are dove tailed and held in place by a set screw making adjustments or replacements easy. The next best sights are the BG380 while the sights on the Remington and LCP are milled into the slide.



Since all of these are meant for up close and personal self defense where even point shooting may be the norm the sights are simply not a major issue with any of them.


In quality of materials and construction the Pico is by far the winner. All the pieces parts fit together tightly and just feel better finished and thought out than with the others. Also the modular design and ease of access to all the internals makes repair much easier. Even the magazines seem exceptional with stainless and a metal follower. The Remington and Smith both come next while again the Ruger just feels like it was built to a price point.


In the final analysis though they all worked and worked flawlessly. I have no reliability concerns with any of them and feel adequately armed with any of them.
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Old January 15, 2019, 09:30 PM   #2
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Nice review. Of the ones you wrote about, I only have the RM380. It is a good pistol and satisfies my want for a pocket sized 380. Although I don't think it necessary, I followed the addendum in the manual and applied grease to the take down pin to alleviate any fear that it could fall out. Now it won't jiggle out for takedown, instead I have to poke it out with a paperclip, essentially creating more work for the takedown process.
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Old January 15, 2019, 10:53 PM   #3
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Thanks for the review. I recently ordered a Pico. I'm hoping it will outperform my Ruger LCP Custom.
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Old January 16, 2019, 07:50 AM   #4
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I've carried a Pico for about 2 1/2 years. It has performed very well. Replaced the recoil spring once. It has all of the features and more one could ask in a pocket gun. Love the choice of three different frames, (I prefer the laser).
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Old January 16, 2019, 10:17 AM   #5
Carl the Floor Walker
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Thank you for the comparison. However, I would suggest you compare these to the Beretta Pico. You might want to break the guns down for comparison as just a outside grip does not tell much of anything. I have a number of post comparing the Pico to the LCP and Kahr.
Are these guns built with a stainless Steel chassis? Or aluminum. Very important to know. Compare the sights, can you put night sights on the Body Guard, the Rem? Are they modular? If not what does the Body Guard Rem. do to protect the stress areas of the rails and grips? Are the Magzines stainless, what kind of follower in the mag. Does the RM or Bodyguard have RESTRIKE LIKE THE PICO?
Just some suggestions. I am familiar with all these guns, but many are not.

Here are more Pics to compare against the Pico.













PIco vs LCP



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Old January 16, 2019, 01:08 PM   #6
jar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker View Post
Thank you for the comparison. However, I would suggest you compare these to the Beretta Pico. You might want to break the guns down for comparison as just a outside grip does not tell much of anything. I have a number of post comparing the Pico to the LCP and Kahr.
Are these guns built with a stainless Steel chassis? Or aluminum. Very important to know. Compare the sights, can you put night sights on the Body Guard, the Rem? Are they modular? If not what does the Body Guard Rem. do to protect the stress areas of the rails and grips? Are the Magzines stainless, what kind of follower in the mag. Does the RM or Bodyguard have RESTRIKE LIKE THE PICO?
Just some suggestions. I am familiar with all these guns, but many are not.

Here are more Pics to compare against the Pico.













PIco vs LCP



Those are all interesting points but I'm not sure some of them really matter all that much. Is there really much of an advantage to a stainless steel magazine follower over a polymer magazine follower or to the rails being polymer with steel inserts or aluminum or even modern polymer rails with no steel inserts?

Now the issue of sights being adjustable or able to be upgraded to night sights could be relevant but as I point out, within the expected role of all of these handguns is it really significant? For example, when training to use these little guns or any of my snub nose revolvers or my Sig P230 or Makarov or the other similar sized defensive handguns I own and have owned over the last half century or more most of the practice is with point shooting; beginning at waist level and working up to near full arm extension. It's weak and strong hand single handed shooting and shooting while moving both forward and backward and side to side.

These are all up close and personal right in your face critical defense handguns, not nail driving target pistols.

Granted, the fact that the sights on the Pico are not just adjustable but easily user changed and the sights on the Bodyguard are drift adjustable and only slightly more difficult to change is nice, but not so major that it would play a big part within my decision making considering the role intended to be filled.

Personally I found the Pico, RM380 and Bodyguard 380 more enjoyable than the LCP but after several boxes of several different ammo types through each of them I feel anyone of the four is more than just adequate within the role of easily concealed defensive handguns.
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Old January 16, 2019, 07:07 PM   #7
Carl the Floor Walker
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Have been shooting pocket guns for a long time, and yes to most of your questions. They are important. Especially night sights. I can't emphasize that enough. NO they ARE not just up close and Personal. That is for folks that just do not want to train.
They can do very well at 10 yards. And they require as much or more diligent training than a lot of larger guns. Don't underestimate the Pocket gun. Put in the time, the ammo down range and you will get a lot better results than "Just up close and Personal".

And quality mags with the steel follower are important. Many of these guns have had numerous problems with mags. Never have I had one with the Dozen Mags I have for the Pico. Recently order mag guts for the Kahr, not for the extra round, but they come with a metal follower. It fixed a issue I had with the Kahr.

These small guns take a beating. Get one built tough. Especially if you plan on doing a lot of shooting, which you should be doing.

PS and NO I am not talking about target shooting these guns. I am talking about fast draw, point and shoot to center mass. Get the Night sights.

Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; January 16, 2019 at 07:14 PM.
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Old January 17, 2019, 07:37 AM   #8
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You make lots of simply unsupported assertions.

The role of the firearm design has absolutely nothing to do with how much anyone practices and trains. Yes, they can be used at ten or even 15 yards, no one has said that they could not, but that is not the designers intended role when these small 380 were created.

I have had magazine problems with mags that had metal followers and in fact have several I am working on right now. So far I have seen no reasoning or evidence presented to show that modern polymer followers are in any way inferior to metal followers.

Like you, I prefer my Pico to the other three I own but only slightly when compared to the Remington and Smith and when compared to the LCP only because I prefer a true double action hammer cocked by the trigger firing system to a kinda double action where the hammer is cocked by slide recoil.

Yes, these small handguns are harder to shoot well than most larger handguns and so more experience, practice and training is needed, but personal preferences and physical characteristics are also factors. The super slim profile of the Pico makes it easier to conceal but it also makes it slightly more difficult to control than the fatter gripped higher textured grip on the Remington and Smith & Wesson. Texture is an asset when it comes to grip control and a liability when it comes to drawing a firearm from a pocket.

My Pico fully loaded (6+1) weighs 392.2g while the Remington RM380 in the same format weighs 458.5g, the Smith 404.8g and the LCP 347.9g. Weight is an asset when it comes to reducing felt recoil and a liability when it comes to carry-ability.

All of the small handguns we've discussed are well built. All are reliable. All perform equally. All can be purchased new at just below or just above $200.00 US. All hold 7 rounds as standard. Which is the better choice for someone depends far more on the individual than any differences in the firearm itself.
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Old January 17, 2019, 08:34 AM   #9
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Thanks for the really good review..has convinced me to get a RM380, sell the 'strawberry' LCP..anybody wanna buy it?
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Old January 17, 2019, 08:41 AM   #10
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My friend, I get it. I talk a LOT about Walther P99/PPQ etc because I have 14 years of pretty technical experience with Walther.

You clearly post a lot, or mostly about the Pico. Nothing wrong there.

However, I've owned 4 LCPs and just as many P3ATs before Ruger took the design. Also owned CW380s, PPS, P938s, DB9s, PF-9s, LC9s, all the Kahr 9mm, etc. Love the pocket pistol.

What you are detailing as flaws with this platform pretty rarely show up in the others.

What I do know is the Pico grip is a bit uncomfortable and the trigger is pretty darn the heaviest compared to the others.

While thin(nest), the Pico is still taller than the LCP.

I will say, the stainless is its best feature, but not for the non specific strength qualities you assign it. A carry gun gets abused and damp. I like stainless for this reason.
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Old January 17, 2019, 01:03 PM   #11
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I do like my Pico that I've had for nearly 2 yrs now. The construction/quality and the carry convenience are outstanding. The trigger takes some getting used to, most particularly, the long reset and as expected it's a hand biter. It's a natural pointer and I do right well with it at the range and that's saying plenty.

This is the only sub compact .380 I have owned but I did make it a point to at least handle the other ones on the mkt at the time of purchase. The Pico won out in feel and appearance but who knows which one shoots the best?
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Old January 17, 2019, 05:06 PM   #12
Carl the Floor Walker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wild cat mccane View Post
My friend, I get it. I talk a LOT about Walther P99/PPQ etc because I have 14 years of pretty technical experience with Walther.

You clearly post a lot, or mostly about the Pico. Nothing wrong there.

However, I've owned 4 LCPs and just as many P3ATs before Ruger took the design. Also owned CW380s, PPS, P938s, DB9s, PF-9s, LC9s, all the Kahr 9mm, etc. Love the pocket pistol.

What you are detailing as flaws with this platform pretty rarely show up in the others.

What I do know is the Pico grip is a bit uncomfortable and the trigger is pretty darn the heaviest compared to the others.



While thin(nest), the Pico is still taller than the LCP.

I will say, the stainless is its best feature, but not for the non specific strength qualities you assign it. A carry gun gets abused and damp. I like stainless for this reason.
Sorry, the flaws do show up in others. Yes the Pico is thin, but not hard to handle at all if you invest a little time with the gun. The trigger breaks in very nicely. Yes, I know a little about the LCP's, having owned 4 of them.
Yes, I post a often about the Pico, but I own many guns. I just have a love of the smaller pistols and revolvers and just plain admire the quality build of the Pico. And I will totally disagree with you on the stainless steel. Seen the effects on many small aluminum guns. I will NOT in any way Buy one or Own one again.

No, I do not agree with "Jar", on just about anything, but that is fine. If he wants to believe the gun is just for close up and personal, then that is about the best he will get. I have never seen where the manufacturers claims the gun is meant the way he describes. That is his words, not a manufacturer. Never. In fact, it is obvious that they do not, as some are equipped with sights.

I have a large hand, and long fingers, I can do very well in drawing from a holster or table and hittng center mass. I have shot all of the above side by side. The Pico will perform better, much less recoil and muzzle flip, especially shot against the LCP. The Kahr, is very close, I would say a tie.
And it is a fact that stainless still will hold much longer. I have proven this just by owning them.

I have always said the Pico is not for a beginner. But invest some time with it and you will reap huge rewards.

Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; January 17, 2019 at 05:11 PM.
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Old January 17, 2019, 06:27 PM   #13
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Thanks for the good review. It makes me wish I had bought the Remington when my LGS had a nice-looking used one for cheap.

I own a Pico and an LCPII. I let my FiL have my P3AT.

I brought all three of them to the shooting range once and did some comparison shooting.

I have XXL hands, and the Pico doesn't fit them very well. I also don't care for the weird magazine release. Its trigger is so-so. It had the best fit and finish. Its sights were easily the best. I liked the second-strike option. I shot it quite well, especially given the tiny grip. It is the same size as the other two, but Beretta made the trigger guard larger than necessary, thus using up too much of the grip.

The P3AT was okay. I shot it fine. The grip was okay. The trigger was okay. The sights were not okay - it barely had any. I wished that the slide locked open when it was empty.

The LCPII had pretty good sights. Not as good as the Pico, but pretty good. The grip was okay. I had to be careful to keep my thumb away from the mag release. The trigger was excellent, easily the best of the three. I shot it the best, doubtless because of the respectable sights and the excellent trigger.

(Note: None of the pistols had a malfunction, that day, or any other time I shot them.)

The end results:

I gave my P3AT to my FiL because he wanted a small carry pistol, but was going to dither for months or years before he finally decided on one.

My friend at the LGS said he would give me no more than $100 for the Pico in trade towards another pistol. He says he thinks that people don't like the tiny grip and weird magazine release, so he has trouble selling them. I am keeping it. It's not my favorite, but it's certainly well-made and I shoot it decently. (I got it barely used for cheap.)

I carry the LCPII pretty often. I shoot it well and it's very easy to conceal. The trigger is pretty light for a small carry pistol, but I trust myself to be good about trigger discipline. I've learned to keep my thumb away from the magazine release when I shoot it. It's not "obviously the best" micro 380 on the market, but of the ones I've tried it's my preference.
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Old January 17, 2019, 08:48 PM   #14
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he sights were mentioned by several of us so I thought adding some images might be worthwhile.

The stock sights that are standard on the Beretta Pico:


The stock sights that are standard on the Smith & Wesson M&P BG380:


The stock sights that are standard on the Remington RM380:


The stock sights that are standard on the Ruger LCP:
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Old January 18, 2019, 08:32 AM   #15
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Here was one of my DB9 9mm next to my LCP. They are basically the same size.

The DB9 is coming out as a gen4 in under a month with Glock sights and a new reset return spring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgpG...ature=youtu.be


still not saying the DB9 is a worthwhile pistol.

Also, a metal trigger, I've seen more of the not popular DB9 triggers snapped in half than I have seen of millions sold LCP plastic triggers broken in any fashion.
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Old January 21, 2019, 07:10 PM   #16
Carl the Floor Walker
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Just ran 100 rounds through my Kahr 380. Ran like a champ. Also quality build. Look at how they added the steel inserts at the stress points. And Like the Pico all stainless Steel construction. And nice sights. Front sight is easy to change out to night sights, rear sight, not easy.





And as always just love handing the fine quality of the Pico and seeing pictures.


Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; January 21, 2019 at 07:19 PM.
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Old January 21, 2019, 10:06 PM   #17
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The rm380 has a stainless slide and barrel. The frame, including rails and grip frame, is aluminum. The mag release is ambi without having to be swapped back and forth. The slide locks back on empty. It is hammer fired and double action only, so yes, it has 2nd strike capability.
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Old January 21, 2019, 11:13 PM   #18
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Shot my new Beretta Pico tonight alongside my LCP custom. The trigger was pretty heavy and long, especially after shooting the LCP. I shot both about equally well. The sights are definitely better on the Pico. The red (wider I believe) trigger that the LCP custom comes with is definitely better than the regular LCP triggers. All in all, I can't quite decide which I like better. I was shooting the Pico with the flush magazine and I think I would have enjoyed it a lot more if I had the one with the extension.

The Pico definitely feels more solid/quality. The LCP is kind of cheap-feeling.
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Old January 22, 2019, 08:13 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rspeters View Post
Shot my new Beretta Pico tonight alongside my LCP custom. The trigger was pretty heavy and long, especially after shooting the LCP. I shot both about equally well. The sights are definitely better on the Pico. The red (wider I believe) trigger that the LCP custom comes with is definitely better than the regular LCP triggers. All in all, I can't quite decide which I like better. I was shooting the Pico with the flush magazine and I think I would have enjoyed it a lot more if I had the one with the extension.

The Pico definitely feels more solid/quality. The LCP is kind of cheap-feeling.
Finally got tired of the pain of shooting the LCP and going to have it consigned today..Bought a second G42 with ClipDraw for pocket carry..if I gots a gun, gotta be FTS(FunToShoot)..the LCP not that.
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Old February 2, 2019, 11:33 PM   #20
Carl the Floor Walker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rspeters View Post
Shot my new Beretta Pico tonight alongside my LCP custom. The trigger was pretty heavy and long, especially after shooting the LCP. I shot both about equally well. The sights are definitely better on the Pico. The red (wider I believe) trigger that the LCP custom comes with is definitely better than the regular LCP triggers. All in all, I can't quite decide which I like better. I was shooting the Pico with the flush magazine and I think I would have enjoyed it a lot more if I had the one with the extension.

The Pico definitely feels more solid/quality. The LCP is kind of cheap-feeling.
Rspters. Spend a little time with the Pico. The trigger is a great double action and will break in to be a lot smoother. And I do not think there is another gun the size of the Pico that has that grade of build quality. And not to mention, the fact that it is so mild to shoot. Once you get use to the gun, you will not look back. And the little gun will run and run and run. The best little shooter I have come across.
I also have the Kahr, trigger is about the same, just a little lighter. Took a while for the gun to break in, but now shoots very nice. I still prefer the Pico. My fourth LCP has been retired now for quite a while. I just use it as a truck gun.

Here is a set on the Nano


Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; February 3, 2019 at 06:29 PM.
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