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Old January 15, 2019, 07:59 AM   #26
darkgael
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Recoil: a 150 grain bullet out of an 8lb gun using a load of IMR 4895
.30-06 = 13.8 ft.lbs free recoil (2700 fps w. 46.3 grs. IMR 4895)
.270 Win = 13.54 ft. lbs free recoil (2700fps w. 44.9 grs IMR 4895).
.308 Win. = 14.10 ft.lbs Free recoil (2777 fps w. 45 grs, IMR 4895)
Free recoil is within a few ounces across the three cartridges.
Velocity and load data from Lyman.
Recoil info from "Recoil Calculator" at Handloads.com.
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Old January 15, 2019, 08:14 AM   #27
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This really is a big trade-off scenario--you want stopping power out to 400 yds on medium/big game vs big reduction on recoil--my guess is fizzics is going to make your choices very limited one way or the other--I'd be looking at something like a Creedmoor if significant recoil reduction is all that important.
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Old January 15, 2019, 09:05 AM   #28
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These guns boards can really mess with your head: One thread is yet another in an endless series of caliber wars, and in the next, a guy puts a few numbers in a spreadsheet and he's told he's overthinking things.
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Old January 15, 2019, 10:51 AM   #29
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All, thanks for your input on caliber selection, but like I mentioned that's not really the point of my thread. Recoil reduction isn't the overall purpose. I've been shooting a 30-06 since I was about 12 so I can handle it. My thoughts are simply that if spending this kind of money, I might as well do my homework. Maybe there are better cartridges out there for me.

Quote:
a guy puts a few numbers in a spreadsheet and he's told he's overthinking things.
MrBorland, everyone contributes with the best of intentions, I'm sure. I'm not too concerned either way! It's been a while since anything I've done has been called "academic", though. The inner nerd in me appreciated that comment (thanks Red!)
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Old January 15, 2019, 11:21 AM   #30
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The 30-'06 can be loaded with lighter bullets to perform close to a 270 Winchester as has just been pointed out. Alternatively, an often overlooked trick is to reload your cases using bullets intended for the 30-30 at velocities that are a little faster than the 30-30 can achieve, but well below what the 30-'06 is capable of. The result will be reduced recoil with ammo that will be totally capable to well beyond 200 yards for hunting deer, etc.
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Old January 15, 2019, 02:37 PM   #31
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MrBorland, everyone contributes with the best of intentions, I'm sure. I'm not too concerned either way! It's been a while since anything I've done has been called "academic", though. The inner nerd in me appreciated that comment (thanks Red!)
Good attitude. More I think though you can't have math weight that is right for factors as well as the individual and what they want. At work we have a dashboard thing that tells upper managers how we are doing. Its always in the red but we keep the place running. hmmmm

I think its a good time and place for a 6.5, but that is me and not you.
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Old January 15, 2019, 02:39 PM   #32
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If I ever do feel that the recoil is too much than I will consider using a 130 grain bullet but will change the barrel to a faster twist like a 1:11 that will shoot this bullet accurately, which at this point your 270 or 280 won't match either, just my 2¢.
Spot on, not sure you can even find commercial ammo in under 150 gr.

If it is then a 1-11 or 1-12 would be the right twist to have the best chance for a good accurate outcome.

Then there is the 6.5! (grin) which has the twist build in.
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Old January 15, 2019, 05:45 PM   #33
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I think its a good time and place for a 6.5, but that is me and not you.
The 6.5-06 almost made the list. Post-Christmas budgetary constraints will keep me from doing anything right now, so it may end up on the short list at some point. The 143 grain ELD-X and 142 gr ABLR are both great offerings.

I thought the 260 Rem was going to win out back before the 6.5C became so popular. I had my semi-custom long range rifle chambered in it. It's my most accurate rifle.

I also really like the 6.5x284 but am too lazy to figure out all the different specs and such. I tried that with the 6.5 Grendel and just got tired of trying to understand. Too many other good cartridges out there to waste time on that.
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Old January 15, 2019, 07:08 PM   #34
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As a guy who shoots modern arm busters in my 45-70 i think my 06 weatherby is like a 22 long rifle after. I use to think my 06 was stiff now it’s a pleasure. That’s how you can overcome any recoil:-)
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Old January 15, 2019, 07:28 PM   #35
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It sounds like you need the 270wsm to me, that's what I would buy !!!!
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Old January 15, 2019, 07:43 PM   #36
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As a guy who shoots modern arm busters in my 45-70 i think my 06 weatherby is like a 22 long rifle after. I use to think my 06 was stiff now it’s a pleasure. That’s how you can overcome any recoil:-)
4...3...2....1....and they're off!
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Old January 15, 2019, 07:48 PM   #37
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You might also consider the 284 win--sort of a "born again cartridge" that got overshadowed by it's child in 6.5. I love the 162 gr eldx bullet in 7mm.
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Old January 15, 2019, 09:51 PM   #38
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I think I would be picking the rifle first----find one that fits you to a "T"---then get the largest cartridge they offer in that rifle where you think you can handle the recoil.

The Browning X-bolt is my current favorite--btw---mine is chambered in .270 Win.

I have other rifles and chamberings but the trim little Browning works best---for me.

My Ruger All Weather Hawkeye in .30-06 is a beast weighing a good pound to pound and half more than the X-bolt----the main reason I have it is for a worst conditions rifle.


I also have a stainless Savage Axis in .308---its main use it to have a cheap beater to play around with--you know just to have something different.


The chamberings are pretty much the same but the rifles are very different---keep in mind that these are all relatively cheap to shoot with ammo available everywhere----I'd stay away from the magnums or odd calibers.
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Old January 16, 2019, 11:46 AM   #39
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Omaha-BeenGlockin, I held my cousin's X-bolt a few months back. It was the first time I looked at a Browning and I was thoroughly impressed. He really likes it. If I end up replacing, it'll definitely be considered.

GW44, I have been reading up on copper bullets. I like that they don't loose weight. Going copper would definitely give the edge to the 270WSM over the 280 Rem, but not sure I want to make the leap just yet.
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Old January 16, 2019, 02:58 PM   #40
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Quote:
I thought the 260 Rem was going to win out back before the 6.5C became so popular. I had my semi-custom long range rifle chambered in it. It's my most accurate rifle.
The 260 Rem is a 6.5 and is no slouch, has some slight performance advantages over the 6.5 CM. One I would consider. 6.5s come long or short and max nix (as we say in German) which one it is, they all work and are one of the sweet spots caliber wise.

I am fond of my 30 caliber loads, but the 6.5 does all they will do and none of the 30s have the range capability of the 6.5 (normal weights)

Of course I could consider a 1-12 for the 06 and shoot 120 -140 in it! Have to look at bullet choice. 6.5s have that dialed in for any use and range of target shooting.
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Old January 16, 2019, 04:13 PM   #41
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The ONLY source of magic for the 6.5 bore dia is tight twists,like 1 in 9 or 1 in 8.5,have been relatively standard in factory rifles and milsurps.
That has allowed the bullet folks to make long,sleek bullets for the guns.

If you can deal with the recoil,and buy a custom barrel,the 30 cal long range bullets are there.As are .338's.

277,or 257,or 8mm, IF there was a market,bullets and barrels could make about any bore dia "magic"

If your answer to long range shooting is slower twists and lighter bullets,,,,it seems like Remington has tried that a few times.
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Old January 16, 2019, 04:20 PM   #42
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The 6.5 is not magic its a sweet spot with the right combo bullet weight for hunting and the performance out to long distances for shooting (and short)

All rifles need the right twist with the right bullet weights though the 06 is somewhat oddly more wide ranging.

I don't like any more recoil than I have to. 30-06 is more than enough for me.

I shot my 7 mm Rem Mag to ensure it worked before I sold it. Arghhhh.
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Old January 16, 2019, 04:37 PM   #43
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Lately, I've found burying a hand grenade under a corn pile is more effective than a 6.5.
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Old January 16, 2019, 04:59 PM   #44
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It seems like everyone forgets that the fatter cases sacrifice magazine capacity for whatever else they promise.....
My most accurate load in my 270 Winchester clocks right at 3,000 fps with 150 grain Nosler Partition bullets. And the rifle holds 5 in the magazine plus another in the chamber. What would any 264 Winchester Magnum or 270 WSM/Weatherby or 7mm WSM/Remington do for me on a hunt that I couldn't get done, just as well, as with my 270? Or, for that matter, almost any decent, 24" barreled 30-'06?
I'm thinking that a 270WSM will kick just as much as a 30'06, all else being close to equal. So then, you are back up to the recoil that was a prime point of objection to that 30-'06. If it really was a valid objection in the first place, then one ought to forget about any cartridge that comes close in that respect.
Therefore, calibers like the 243 Winchester or 6.5 Creedmoor are what might actually be needed.
On the other hand; this all looks like someone trying to justify to another, (wife, perhaps?), why they need this other rifle that in reality will do the same thing as the old rifle, with virtually identical recoil!

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Old January 16, 2019, 05:30 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC20 View Post
Spot on, not sure you can even find commercial ammo in under 150 gr.

If it is then a 1-11 or 1-12 would be the right twist to have the best chance for a good accurate outcome.

Then there is the 6.5! (grin) which has the twist build in.
You can reload it, order molds for hard casting as well.
https://www.wideners.com/reloading-s...ts/308-bullets
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Old January 16, 2019, 06:08 PM   #46
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I really respect the thought you've put into the process. I can't dispute any of your methods or results.

Due to my eyesight and skill level, I probably wouldn't take the shot unless within 250 yards. At that distance, there are a lot of other softer shooting options that will drop the game. In the 'I like what I am familiar with' category, I favor the 7x57 Mauser round as I've had that rifle in the family since before Sputnik was launched.

However, I don't hunt anything larger than deer, and, again, not over 250 yards. I can't be sure I'll make a clean shot beyond that, so it isn't fair for me to try.




Out to 400 yards and you have some good choices already identified.

Let us know what you decide!
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Old January 17, 2019, 01:20 PM   #47
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I'll second "jmstr's" post. I have an '06 built on a Mauser action that is a bit heavy for hiking as I age, and not horrible but not necessarily comfortable off the bench.

I had a 7x57 built on a 03A3 action that I had..... and I am done looking for a medium bore.

I hand load [not pushing any "mini-mag" envelope] and at my self enforced range limits, say around 300 yards, it hits where I aim and will effectively harvest any game animal on my continent. Did I mention that it is very comfortable to shoot whether off the bench or off hand?
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Old January 17, 2019, 02:22 PM   #48
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The 7 x 57, the 7.5 Swiss and the 06 are all in the same general class and only the wide spread dispersal of the 06 had it better (7 x 57 more so in some parts of the world)

You can add in 300 wm and 7mm and they all are in that area. Those two hotter but realistically?

The 6.5 just happens to fall in an area that today you can have it work 100 to 1000 and a really good job better than the 30s.

For most no issue, recoil shooting a lot is an aspect and for target that raises the ante and its long distance BC combo.

Nothing wrong with any of them and they all will work.
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Old January 17, 2019, 03:18 PM   #49
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Perhaps a Browning BAR gas-operated action would work well for you.

.30-06 or less in a cartridge easily found anywhere and reign in the distance a bit to 250.

An older model with the BOSS system would allow you to dial in the cartridge you choose.

Enjoy your pursuit!
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Old January 17, 2019, 09:08 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkgael View Post
Recoil: a 150 grain bullet out of an 8lb gun using a load of IMR 4895
.30-06 = 13.8 ft.lbs free recoil (2700 fps w. 46.3 grs. IMR 4895)
.270 Win = 13.54 ft. lbs free recoil (2700fps w. 44.9 grs IMR 4895).
.308 Win. = 14.10 ft.lbs Free recoil (2777 fps w. 45 grs, IMR 4895)
Free recoil is within a few ounces across the three cartridges.
Velocity and load data from Lyman.
Recoil info from "Recoil Calculator" at Handloads.com.
Academic.

The 150 gr. 270 Win. has both the BC and SD of the 180 gr. .308., so it will essentially perform like the 180 gr. .308.

So, the .270 Win. gives the performance of a 180 gr. 30-06 (at a high velocity)... with the recoil of a 150 gr. 30-06.




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