The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 28, 2019, 11:13 AM   #101
stinkeypete
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 22, 2010
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 120
I think the answer to the original post is “the factory ammo you can buy at the store kicks like a mule and is overkill for white tailed deer. And most fellas don’t handload.”

Having thinned down my collection, I can tell you that my Grandpa’s Remington Express 30-06 was the rifle I kept. My Grandpa was in WWI, and that’s what he trained on. When he got back, thousands of those rifles were sporterized and could be bought for very low cost.

I sold the Savage (300 savage, goofy fitting stock but pretty) and I do regret selling my 30-30s, which is what I used for big Wisconsin white tails. Even considered “little” I found 30-30 plenty effective in Wisconsin and far less bruising to my shoulder. Grandpa’s ‘06 has a steel butt plate, and by God it’s gonna stay that way. Mostly I hunt deer with handguns.

Handoading, I’ve got 30 cal little 100 grain plinkers you can load for 900 fps, fancy plastic balistic tips that mushroom perfectly at very low velocity so pick your trajectory and kick, and boxes of factory ammo in case of T-Rex invasion or elk or moose.

It’s like a hammer from the gods on Bambi and on your shoulder, unless you hand load.

It’s the grand master of North America hunting.

Let’s face it, no one is going to make a lot of money selling 30-06’s because once you have one, you don’t really need anything else. Unless you go on safari.

You could almost say the same about the 30-30.

Say you have a .22, a Marlin 30-30, a Remington 30-06 a set of loading dies and a Wingmaster 12 gauge. What can’t you hunt? What are factories going to make to give to gun writers so we shell out our cash for the latest and greatest?

I mean, I guess you could put a blue-tooth scope attached to your smart phone and laser range finder so you can order a pizza while shooting 600 yards at Bambi.. meh. I have no interest in that.

In true fact, 30-06 is the last rifle I kept. I overdid it... I need a .22. They make some nice little bolt action .22s these days.
stinkeypete is offline  
Old January 28, 2019, 01:02 PM   #102
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,944
I think a better question would be why consider anything other than a 30-06?
Hawg is offline  
Old January 28, 2019, 01:44 PM   #103
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 5,458
Quote:
I think a better question would be why consider anything other than a 30-06?
Not hunting anything larger than deer, Lighter recoil, less meat damage if front shoulder hit, etc. 7x57, 7MM-08, 300 Savage, .308 Win., .260 Rem, .243, 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 30-30 Winchester, etc., etc.

A 30-06 (in my opinion) is unnecessarily stout for the exclusive use on Whitetails here in Michigan, especially considering most deer here are shot a close range.
dahermit is offline  
Old January 28, 2019, 02:13 PM   #104
Dano4734
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2014
Posts: 712
For this old guy 30-06 for anything and at brush areas 45-70 they do it all I think. Small game my 870 shotgun and a 22 lr. Everything a hunter needs for anything I think
Dano4734 is offline  
Old January 28, 2019, 07:05 PM   #105
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 4,369
Quote:
OK, I give up. Why not? It has been one of the top cartridges in sales for the past 50 years, it is accurate, powerful, and common. That's probably the reason nobody is singing its song anymore, there are newer and sexier things nowadays, no need to get another 30-06. Hows about the new 6.5 Whatchamacallit? Or a 338 Superboom? Haha! Guaranteed to detach a retina in 10 shots or so. No, everybody is trying to sell something new, the same old same old just isn't fun to talk about.
I think bullet technology is the real reason the 06 is not as popular as it once was. I am doing most things today with a .243 and .257 that I used to feel I needed a .30 to handle. I also found that the light recoil is nice on the old reconstructed shoulder.
(I have no idea why the .308 Win is popular. I am no great fan of it.)

Last edited by reynolds357; January 28, 2019 at 07:11 PM.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old January 28, 2019, 10:47 PM   #106
ratshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,298
Quote:
A 30-06 (in my opinion) is unnecessarily stout for the exclusive use on Whitetails here in Michigan, especially considering most deer here are shot a close range.
Reload and you can adjust the power level of your rifle. And I agree. The 30/06 is a bit much for the small whitetails we have here in Tx. But I have 150gr round nose Remington bullets for the 30-30 that that shoot around 2500-2600fps and and with my gun sighted an inch high at 100 yards with full power loads these land right on the bullseye and are easy on the shoulder to shoot.

To my way of thinking reloading opens up a whole new world of shooting. I can turn down a powerful gun but I can't turn a 243 into a 30-06.

I made some light loads for a 15 year old girl to use on a youth hunt with my 7-08. I think these are a better killer as a 243 and I have the ability to load up to 170gr bullets in the same rifle if I choose to. The 30-06 is all this and more.

Its the caliber that all other rounds are compared to. They are just as good, almost as good, or maybe just a little better than the 30-06. But the original is just as good now as it ever was. And sometimes with new loads and bullets just a little better.
__________________
"Those who cannot cleanly dispatch their game using a .30-30 are either shooting too far, hunting inappropriate (too large) game, or are simply incompetent." Mic McPherson

I can understand your anger at me, but what could you possibly have against the horse I rode in on?
ratshooter is offline  
Old January 28, 2019, 11:23 PM   #107
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA
Posts: 24,740
Loading for the '06 is fun. A round 00 Buck and five grains of pistol powder = squirrel load. Or an 80-grain bullet for the destruction of jackrabbits. Then the plinker load of the 169-grain lead gas check bullet ahead of 20 grains of 2400. After that, the "get serious" deer/elk/moose loads.

What's not to like?
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old January 28, 2019, 11:24 PM   #108
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 5,458
Quote:
To my way of thinking reloading opens up a whole new world of shooting. I can turn down a powerful gun but I can't turn a 243 into a 30-06.
Most people who haunt gun forums own many guns...we have the luxury of choosing a gun that fits a particular niche instead of make-one-gun-do-everything...so that fact that it can be hand loaded for a particular purpose is a moot point when one has a closet full of guns.
dahermit is offline  
Old January 28, 2019, 11:31 PM   #109
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 4,369
Quote:
To my way of thinking reloading opens up a whole new world of shooting. I can turn down a powerful gun but I can't turn a 243 into a 30-06.
By the same token, I can turn down my 300 RUM, but you can't turn up your .30-06. Everybody has a reason for liking what they like. I have 2 .30-06 and like them both. Have not shot either one in over 25 years. But I like them.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old January 29, 2019, 12:09 PM   #110
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,844
Shame on you. It obligatory at least once a year to go shoot that Icon!

I was chastised for not doing so with the Family 06 this last year and rightfully so.

Ending of WWI was a time to do so. Bad boy, no biscuit (from a long ago commercial about a dog that did not do it right)
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old January 29, 2019, 01:05 PM   #111
Bimus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2018
Location: Farmington NM
Posts: 114
I worked with a man years back and he guided deer and elk hunts on his families land that goes back a long way. he may not still be guiding but his kids and grand kids probably are . He always had story's to tell about clients some of them did not have a rifle and some where not sure of what rifle bring other would show up with several rifles in different calibers not knowing what was needed some where only going because there friend was going and they never shot a gun. any ways he used to tell them don't worry just bring a box of 30-06 150 grain for deer and 180 grain for elk and they could use his rifle . through the years we worked together he also sold a lot of 30-06 rifles.
Bimus is offline  
Old January 29, 2019, 03:10 PM   #112
Jack Ryan
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2009
Posts: 4
OP, they believe everything they read on the internet.
__________________
Free men own guns. Slaves don't.
Jack Ryan is offline  
Old January 30, 2019, 05:36 PM   #113
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,844
Quote:
(I have no idea why the .308 Win is popular. I am no great fan of it.)
Lighter recoil, not that much for a 150 gr if any. Supposedly inherent accurate. I got one and finally found a load it seems to like.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old January 30, 2019, 07:47 PM   #114
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,944
I really don't understand the recoil issue. To me even a hot loaded 06 with a steel butt plate doesn't have much recoil.
Hawg is offline  
Old January 30, 2019, 08:26 PM   #115
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA
Posts: 24,740
If, as so many people claim, the muzzle velocities of 150-grain bullets are near equal for the .308 and '06, how can the recoils be very much different?

The lesser powder charge of the .308 probably means maybe a 5% reduction in recoil. That's not very much. Can your shoulder tell the difference?
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old January 30, 2019, 08:31 PM   #116
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 5,458
Quote:
I really don't understand the recoil issue. To me even a hot loaded 06 with a steel butt plate doesn't have much recoil.
I beg to differ. Despite the admonition of the training Sgt.s that the M1 did not "kick", it kicked the living heck out of me. We had a course of fire at Fort Knox called, "Trainfire" consisting of human shaped silhouettes that would pop-up at random distances after a horn sounded. A hit would knock the silhouette down and you would be scored with a hit. Long story short, when I first started out firing I hit nearly every target no matter what distance (you had to quickly estimate the distance and fire before the target dropped out of sight), they were. I was easily shooting in the expert class. However, as the shooting went on, I got so beat-up from the recoil I began to miss some of the targets. In the end, I qualified as a "Sharpshooter"...five hits from obtaining the top score of "Expert".

Also, some years ago I fired my M1 in NRA local service rifle matches taking home third place in as many matches...beating several of the guys who traveled to out of state matches to compete. Then, I bought a Colt H-Bar to shoot in the matches. The very first match in which I competed, I shot the highest score I had ever fired...High Master. I would have taken a first in that match except for the fact that some damned "kid"...a rifle instructor for the National Guard had been competing in that match and beat me.

I attribute the difference between my shooting the M1 and the Colt H-bar .223, was the recoil...30-06's have always kicked the hell out of me and it was evident in my shooting.
dahermit is offline  
Old January 30, 2019, 08:35 PM   #117
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 5,458
Quote:
If, as so many people claim, the muzzle velocities of 150-grain bullets are near equal for the .308 and '06, how can the recoils be very much different?
My .308 Winchester Model 70 (150 grain) kicked the hell out of me also, as did a couple of 30-06s (150-155 grain) I owned. I don't know where you guys get this "light recoiling stuff." In other words, they aren't different.

If it is a matter of some of us being more sensitive to recoil than others, that may be true...but it is a physical thing, not psychological. I had a Browning BT-99 trap gun that had a weighted buttstock, a recoil pad, a long barrel, and a integral muzzle break...things that were all intended to reduce felt recoil. If I fired four rounds of trap (25 x 4 = 100 rounds), I would end up with a painful dull ache in my right shoulder that would last until the next day...that was NOT psychological...that was a physical ache.

Last edited by dahermit; January 30, 2019 at 08:42 PM.
dahermit is offline  
Old February 3, 2019, 06:31 PM   #118
JJ45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2015
Posts: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahermit View Post
My .308 Winchester Model 70 (150 grain) kicked the hell out of me also, as did a couple of 30-06s (150-155 grain) I owned. I don't know where you guys get this "light recoiling stuff." In other words, they aren't different.

If it is a matter of some of us being more sensitive to recoil than others, that may be true...but it is a physical thing, not psychological. I had a Browning BT-99 trap gun that had a weighted buttstock, a recoil pad, a long barrel, and a integral muzzle break...things that were all intended to reduce felt recoil. If I fired four rounds of trap (25 x 4 = 100 rounds), I would end up with a painful dull ache in my right shoulder that would last until the next day...that was NOT psychological...that was a physical ache.
Stock design, rifle weight, barrel length, etc will effect the difference in recoil between the two. I have a Marlin 336 30-30 with a straight stock and 20" barrel and although the 30-30 is known for it's light recoil this particular carbine has a noticeable punch to it. About like my 30-06 rifles
JJ45 is offline  
Old February 3, 2019, 08:38 PM   #119
BigBL87
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 13, 2014
Location: Tonica, IL
Posts: 441
For me, the difference was that 308 is just a little bit cheaper than 30-06 when I've shopped around. I don't do any long distance shooting, was mainly just looking for more power than my 223 so the 308 just made more sense. My father in law wants a 30-06 for the extra powder capacity in case he starts reloading and because he just like the tradition behind the round.
BigBL87 is offline  
Old February 3, 2019, 09:32 PM   #120
Bimus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2018
Location: Farmington NM
Posts: 114
To me the 30-06 in a m 1 Garand is the best 30-06 I have ever shot .
Bimus is offline  
Old February 3, 2019, 11:46 PM   #121
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 6,173
I'm split over all this recoil stuff.I'll agree when I figured out I did not need a belted magnum to shoot game with,and built my 257 AI,I enjoyed shooting more and shot better.I collected what I shot with magnums,but the ease of shot placement with the .257 made for clean kills and confidence.

"A man has to know his own imitations" I have no doubt the man with a .250 Savage can feed his family venison.
And,you get good with your rifle by shooting t. I respect the choice to match the cartridge to the game,and a 30-06 is often more than is needed.

Not everone can have the equivalent of a golf bag full of irons and woods and putters. I daresay a LOT of hunters might have a deer rifle,a shogun,and a 22.
Those will be chosen for the typical game/terrain where the hunter hunts.A fellow in quail country will likely use a different shotgun than a guy in goose country. Still,the guy with the Rem 870 12 ga does not have to stay home.

He can show up.

I think the guy with the 30-06 can show up and hunt bout anything. He ony need that one rifle.Some guys have to buy baby shoes instead of more rifles.

I can see how shooting 20 or 40 rounds on the bench with the 30-06 can take a toll. Fair enough.But IMO,the first 5 or 10 are no big deal.At some point,they pound deeper . I recall an interview with Carlos Hathcock .He told a story about being mentored to shoot. There were many range sessions.Each range session was one shot. Only one shot.Then every possible observation about that shot was written down.

A fifty round session is not necessary. Firing three perfect shots might be better.
Three shots of 30-06 won't beat most people up.

How many shots do you need to shoot per hunt? The ideal is one.Maybe two.


Another factor is how you absorb recoil. If you are anticipating painful recoil,you might go stiff and tense.Your body will try to stop the recoil like an anvil or an oak tree.

You will spread the recoil over more distance and time if you know how to relax at the same time you securely hold the rifle. Don't let the scope cut your eye.Don't let the rifle take a run at you before it hits your shoulder.Attach yourself to the rifle. Then roll with it.Don't be an anvil. Be more like a willow.

Last edited by HiBC; February 3, 2019 at 11:55 PM.
HiBC is offline  
Old February 4, 2019, 12:17 AM   #122
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,944
Quote:
Don't let the rifle take a run at you before it hits your shoulder.Attach yourself to the rifle. Then roll with it.Don't be an anvil. Be more like a willow.
This^^^ If you hold it like a .22 it's going to kick the snot out of you. I haven't found my limit yet.
Hawg is offline  
Old February 6, 2019, 08:07 PM   #123
edcwhitewolf92
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2019
Posts: 8
I still have my grandpas old 30-06. I like it for deer hunting but the .270 is my caliber of choice, or .308, .338, 300 win mag lol.
edcwhitewolf92 is offline  
Old February 6, 2019, 08:14 PM   #124
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,844
Quote:
I really don't understand the recoil issue. To me even a hot loaded 06 with a steel butt plate doesn't have much recoil.
My hat is off to you. I never was a svelte type even when I was in good shape 195 lbs of muscle and shoulders like Paul Bunyan.

I sure would not want to shoot an 06 with a steel butt even in my hay day. Granted better standing or kneeling.

I shot the 7mm RM standing before I sold it and it was, man, you were a lot tougher a few years ago.

All day with my HB Savages has me jerking the trigger at times.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old February 6, 2019, 08:49 PM   #125
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,944
Quote:
I sure would not want to shoot an 06 with a steel butt even in my hay day. Granted better standing or kneeling.
I used to do it almost every Saturday afternoon, sitting. When I was a teenager all my rifles had steel butt plates. My shotgun did too, so I guess I just learned to handle recoil at an early age.
Hawg is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09483 seconds with 9 queries