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Old December 17, 2018, 05:18 PM   #26
DPris
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It's not quite like that.
Of course any bullet can blow up on a plate or block.

What we're talking about here is driving a given bullet well beyond the performance levels built into it for use within specific velocities.

A typical JHP will be designed to provide a certain degree of impact & travel expansion within a certain velocity range.

Too slow, it won't expand well.
Too fast, it'll break up on impact.

Rifle velocities in .357 through a longer barrel can gain over 600 FPS over a handgun with the same load.
The lighter the bullet, the faster the velocity.

It's very easy to drive a 110 or a 125 JHP past its designed performance velocities, resulting in violent expansion or breakup on impact, leaving a surface wound that may result in very little penetration.

A heavier bullet is advisable to keep velocities down through a rifle barrel, and/or a bonded or otherwise well-constructed bullet in something no lower than a 158 if going with JHP.

The Hornady XTP is a well-constructed bullet built to hold together for a combination of useful expansion and deep penetration.
The XTP line has a good rep as a tough bullet.
Even there, depending on what you intend to shoot, you don't want to go too light through a rifle.

As 44 said- you try driving a 110 or 125 JHP past its design parameters through a rifle barrel, and you will NOT get the same performance as you would dropping down into velocity ranges those bullets were designed for.
They will tend to blow up on impact, little expansion, on ANIMALS, not steel or cement blocks.

You could even get terminal ballistic degradation with a cheaper 158 JHP of another brand through the rifle.
If you're looking at deer, a good 158 JHP (GOOD one) is perfectly fine.
If you're planning on black bear defense, you most certainly do not want a lightweight JHP.
A heavier well-built jacketed softpoint or hardcast lead will provide much more reliable penetration, and the 180s are the ones to look at there.
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Old December 18, 2018, 12:34 PM   #27
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I have been really happy with the Marlin 1895 with a 18.5" barrel in 45/70. It definitely drops the deer where they stand.
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Old December 19, 2018, 08:14 PM   #28
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My favorite rifle is my Marlin Guide Gun. I have several rifles in chambered in other bottle neck cartridges but for woods hunting the Guide Gun is the one I always carry.

Reloading for it is the only way to go. Mild to wild and everything in between.

My Guide Gun has the factory ported barrel. Some don't like the porting but I am not in that lot.

Viva the 45-70. They got it right over one hundred years ago and it will be here one hundred years from now.
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Old December 19, 2018, 09:15 PM   #29
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I have the Marlin 1895 CB 45-70 9 Shot 26" octagon tubular magazine.Thinking about buying a new 18" barrel.
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Old December 19, 2018, 09:52 PM   #30
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I have several 45/70's currently have an older Browning B78 singleshot with receiver sight, and Browning 86 saddle ring carbine which is my favorite, and I have shot several hogs with it. Used to hunt with a Ruger #1 in 45/70 with a Leupold 1.5 x 5 scope and that was a fine deer rifle; shot several deer with it. For hunting deer and hogs, I have most often used factory 300gr hollow points, because they are easily found in stores, and they shoot flatter then the old 405gr loads.

I have have owned Marlins in the past usually scoped, but recently acquired a Marlin guide type gun, with a full length mag, and I added the XS sight rail and ghost ring sights to it, and then tonight I added an Aimpoint Micro H1 to the rail. I wanted this gun, for hog hunting at close range, and I believe it will do very well for that. The Aimpoint seems to be very fast, and I believe it will excel under the conditions I have been killing hogs at.

If I was going to buy a 45/70 for deer hunting, as my main rifle, I believe I would probably get a Marlin, or Ruger #1 and put a low power variable scope on it.
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Old December 19, 2018, 11:17 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by AmmunitionDepot View Post
I have been really happy with the Marlin 1895 with a 18.5" barrel in 45/70. It definitely drops the deer where they stand.


Like the hammer of Thor.


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Old December 20, 2018, 03:09 AM   #32
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While I've had experience with a friends Sharps and Winchester .45-70, mine have been more modern guns. I had one of the 1895 Marlins, the regular one, before they got guide gun short or cowboy shooting long. Good gun, had it for a long time, used an old Weaver 2.5x Post scope. Shot 385gr cast RN up to 1800fps. Kicked on both ends. Don't crawl on the stock!!

Also had a Siamese Mauser, with a lovely 26" target barrel. Cool gun, weighed tons.

My favorite rifle is my Ruger No.3 in .45-70. Bone stock other than a good thick recoil pad, and 2.5x post scope. Accurate, and can take the heaviest loads, better than I can. Have shot the Hornady 350gr RN at 2200fps! MAX LOAD!! REALLY kicks on both ends.

The Hornady slug holds together well even at that speed.

Do be aware that the Speer 400gr JSP is not suited for high speed. It's built to give controlled expansion at regular .45-70 black powder velocities, and a bit above, but if you push it to 1800 you will likely have core and jacket separation. Saw one deer that happened to. The bullet "failed" but did anchor the deer.

I know that if you push that bullet even faster 2100fps out of a .458 Win Mag (and that's not max for the .458) the Speer 400gr JSP is overdriven and acts like a good varmint bullet, expanding rather explosively.

SO,if you are going to load the .45-70 heavy, in a suitable gun, be sure to pick suitable bullets for the velocities you are going to use. Not all of them are.
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Old December 20, 2018, 09:21 PM   #33
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I’d probably look at a .357 Mag or .44 mag over a 45-70 for deer.
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Old December 20, 2018, 10:37 PM   #34
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I had an 1895 in 22". Great accuracy with 405s @1500, but I couldn't handle the recoil after 2 back surgeries. Sold it to a buddy who now lives in Minnesota and he plugs deer and blacks easily. Great rifle and great caliber to 150 yards.
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Old December 23, 2018, 03:44 AM   #35
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Ohio is over 75% flat land and rolling hills, that's why we were slug only for years. My area
in SE Ohio is considered Appalacian region. I wish they would zone it like other states. This
is a region of steep ridges and deep hollows. I would just like to be able to use a 30/30 or
35Rem. As far as 45/70 a 300gr bullet is plenty for deer. I read all kinds of guys worrying if
their special wide metaplate or some other gimmick bullet in 45/70 is enough to anchor the
deer. I have had several original 45/70 single shots and killed deer with cast bullets, most under 100yds and never had a bullet stop in the deer and this was 1200-1300 FPS loads. They ain't Cape Buffalo. Unless you just like to use 45/70 & 444s and are a Ohio Hunter I
think there are much better choices. I'm going with 375W with Spitzer bullets for 375H&H.
They aren't going to preform much as far as expansion in 375Win but the 235 gr bullet will
punch a hole clear through a deer. Unless you make a terrible shot it's dead. A lot of local deer hunters only hunt Ohio and only rifle experience they have is with HV Varmit guns. They watch to much TV and think a 45/70 is a long range cartridge. Most of these hunters
would have been better served with a 44mg. When average shoots are 100yds or less 45/70 is not necessary. It takes more skill to shot LV rifles than a HV when you start shooting 150
yds or more. A 270 or 3006 doesn't require much with their flat trajectory to take deer out
to 300+ yds.
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Old December 23, 2018, 05:52 PM   #36
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I have 5 deer with a Marlin 1895. Handloaded 325 grain FTX. Ranges 35-85 yards and all bullets went through the chest at some angle. All pretty much bang flops. The one buck that I killed was not a surprize. He did not have a hole in his heart, he had 3/4 pound of hamburger for a heart.


That being said I will no longer take shots angled towards me. The shoulder meat is toast.
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Old December 23, 2018, 06:09 PM   #37
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I've played with 45/70's for many years in a lot of different firearms...using black powder and smokeless. I personally think it's probably one of the most versatile cartridges out there. Lots of different ways to load one from black powder to smokeless...cast or jacketed...hot loads or very mild. I've shot a lot of 405 cast using a pipsqueak load of Unique powder that you could shoot all day to play with...and it has pressure loads that work well out of things like a trapdoor. Loads of possibilities with that cartridge.
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Old December 24, 2018, 04:54 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by briandg View Post
can you explain for me the reason for straight wall only? Other than the obviously lower velocity and hence range, I could never think of anything.
For many years Ohio was shotgun only for deer. Some time back they allowed handguns with the legally defined ammunition being .35 caliber or larger and a straight walled case. Three years ago they allowed rifles "in pistol calibers" with the same legal definition. Therefore any straight walled cartridge .35 caliber or larger is considered legal. This opened up a whole array of legal ammunition that probably were never used in pistols such as 45-90, 45-110, 50-70, 50-90, 50-110 and others, The 50-AE, 480 Ruger, 444 Marlin, 460, 500 S&W are also legal. The 44-40 is not - slight bottleneck. To the firearm knowledgeable folks it makes no sense but it makes hunting much more interesting.
I have carried a Marlin 1895 in 45-70 for the last 3 years in Northwest Ohio loaded with Hornady 300gr HP bullets on top of 49gr of 3031. It worked well on my last hunt in Pennsylvania.

Bob
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Old December 24, 2018, 11:38 PM   #39
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Marlin has a sense of humor! Go to their website and look up the Big Bore 45-70 Trapper. Look at what animals it's rated for. I laughed my butt of when I saw the last one.
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Old December 24, 2018, 11:42 PM   #40
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You have doubts about a full-up 45-70 and a moose ?
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Old December 25, 2018, 12:24 AM   #41
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You have doubts about a full-up 45-70 and a moose ?
Whoops, I meant the 1895 SBL which is the one I have. Look at that one and you will laugh, I promise.
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Old December 25, 2018, 01:35 AM   #42
armednfree
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T-Rex. Hey, the guy in one of the Jurassic park movies carried one.
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Old December 27, 2018, 04:33 PM   #43
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Here you go.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 239CAA51-8710-4DA2-8984-C45267EA9F8E.jpeg (239.6 KB, 57 views)
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Old December 28, 2018, 01:24 AM   #44
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Seems legit...
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Old January 6, 2019, 02:30 AM   #45
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I enjoy the 45-70 quite a bit . My hand loads are easy on the shoulder and still put deer meat in the freezer. The Remington 405 grain factory load is about what I try to duplicate in velocity or power but buying the factory ammo is well expensive in comparison to most popular medium game calibers. Of course the power level can be increased to take down bigger game but I have no desire for my needs.
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Old January 6, 2019, 09:46 AM   #46
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Quote:
I enjoy the 45-70 quite a bit . My hand loads are easy on the shoulder and still put deer meat in the freezer. The Remington 405 grain factory load is about what I try to duplicate in velocity or power but buying the factory ammo is well expensive in comparison to most popular medium game calibers. Of course the power level can be increased to take down bigger game but I have no desire for my needs.
I've been shooting the 45-70 in numerous rifles for several years now and I reload and keep meticulous records on results. It is extremely difficult to develop a load that shoots better than the Rem factory 405g load. It will shoot 1moa out of my 1885 (scoped) off the bench for five shots most times and if not, only a couple of tenths over. I have yet to recover even one bullet out of a dozen or so deer shot with it. If you're not going to be shooting in volume, and don't find load development a recreational activity, just start with them and you can kill anything in N. America with them.
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Old January 6, 2019, 12:06 PM   #47
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I hunt exclusively with 45-70, and have for awhile. I have examples of both Henry and Marlin's and I've found things to love about all of them. Henry finish is alittle better, but no loading gate. The rifle I grab first 99% of the time is a newish (not JM) Marlin, it just handles and shoots so good, it is mostly what I bring with me. As far as what the 45-70 round can do, there is no reason for argument. There is a century of history of what can be done with a 45-70 to draw upon. Either platform you pick will make you happy I predict. Also, if you handload, 45-70 offers a great deal of entertainment to handloaders. I load rounds from all extremes for it, and have a great deal of fun doing it.
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Old January 6, 2019, 08:58 PM   #48
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45-70. For deer purposes?
38-55 would be a better choice.
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Old January 8, 2019, 11:50 AM   #49
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Picking up my henry all weather in 45-70 today...if they ever make this in 357 max and brass becomes more accessible I might snag one but for now the 45-70 will be my deer rifle for here in OH. Weird even saying that since all I ever hunted with was heavy cumbersome 20 ga and 12 ga slug guns.

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Old January 10, 2019, 07:15 AM   #50
Jack O'Conner
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The 45-70 cartridge produces a hefty recoil that is intolerable for some shooters. I suggest try one out before you buy. An easier rifle to shoot is a 44 MAG carbine.

Jack

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