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Old December 25, 2017, 07:47 PM   #1
cornkolb
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Best slow bullet

Looking for some of you guys experience. I have been toying with some subsonic 223 and maybe some 243 hand loads. I was thinking about possibly hunting doe with them. I would keep my shots inside 75 yards and was woundering what the best bullet would be at those drastically reduced velocities.
Thanks for any advice
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Old December 25, 2017, 08:38 PM   #2
Mobuck
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I don't recommend this AT ALL. When my older Son started hunting, I tried some "starting load" 243 ammo. A dismal failure is a very nice comment about the results.
The .223 is marginal with full loads. The 243 also needs velocity to be effective and using a varmint bullet at reduced velocities is questionable.
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Old December 25, 2017, 08:57 PM   #3
HiBC
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If you are thinking of Subsonic to use with a suppressor on an AR-15....Why?

Instead of dealing with the tech problems of gassing,etc in an AR,

Aguila makes a 60 gr subsonic 22 LR round. Put a proper twist barrel on a Ruger 10-22. What have you lost?
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Old December 25, 2017, 10:33 PM   #4
mehavey
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Both the 223 and 243 depend on very high velocity to make up for lack of mass.
Pull either bullet subsonic, and I wouldn't hunt anything exceeding that of a 22LR.
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Old December 26, 2017, 07:37 AM   #5
jmr40
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If you want to go subsonic in an AR buy a 300 BO upper. Personally I'd just run regular ammo through a suppressor. It won't be as quiet, but a lot quieter, and still effective.
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Old December 26, 2017, 08:05 AM   #6
Mobuck
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We've shot deer with suppressed .223, 6x45mm, 6.8, and 300AAC---all with standard factory loaded super-sonic ammo. The use of a suppressor has plenty of advantages even w/o using slow ineffective ammo. It just takes some time and experience to understand this. From 250 yards away(at 90* to the line of fire), my suppressed 6.8's sound signature is an exaggerated "whoosh" with almost no muzzle blast. The 6.8 and 300 have more sonic signature than the far more streamlined .223 and 6mm bullets which is quite logical(just look at the shape of airplanes and their shock waves).
Like I said, use effective ammo and don't worry so much about the bullet's signature. In most of the scenarios where we have missed or planned to shoot multiple animals, the critters moved toward us(away from the bullet strike or passage). In one case, a pair of coyotes ran directly toward the shooter as he missed 4 consecutive shots before making a hit. The remaining yote continued to run in until it was knocked down @ 40 yards.
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Old December 26, 2017, 09:39 AM   #7
Panfisher
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I load a relatively soft load for my wife's .243. 100 grain hornady bullet over 34.0 gn of IMR 4895, super easy shooting load and will easily punch through shoulders of a deer. As for .223, 60 gn Partition and a "normal" charge will drop deer nicely. Of course so will several othwrs.
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Old December 26, 2017, 12:35 PM   #8
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IMO, hunting any deer with the equivalent of a .22 rimfire is as big a no-no as ever was. Sure, poachers do it--but commonly with a light and at very short distances.

Anybody with a .243 is good to go, even with starter-level loads.
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Old December 26, 2017, 01:08 PM   #9
T. O'Heir
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cornkolb doesn't say anything about using a suppressor. Just very low velocity ammo. That being said, the only bullet that might do would be a cast bullet. Doesn't matter if it's a doe or a record book buck, jacketed hunting bullets require velocity for reliable expansion. Cast bullets will expand anyway. Probably break up too. Only data for 'em will be in your manual.
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Old December 26, 2017, 01:27 PM   #10
blackwidowp61
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If you search this site , you'll find a bunch of stories about deer taking lethal hits from full bore loads, from calibers much larger than 223, and still running long distances before dropping, and in some cases, never being recovered. As I am sure that you are an ethical hunter, WHY would you want to think about using a reduced load in 223??? As above, if it is a noise factor, get a can or suppressor.
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Old December 26, 2017, 02:07 PM   #11
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I have to agree with a lot that others have said. You are talking about a 22 cal going 1150 or slower from the muzzle and that means going even slower at range. Yes, you may be using a heavier bullet but not much heavier then the 60 Gr Aguila. I have used the 60 grain Aguila and find it's not very good from a 1-14 twist at ranges over 50 yards.
A 1-7 to 1-9 twist in a 223 from an AR-15 would be a lot better with a 60 grain bullet so accuracy is not a big problem, but it's still a very low powered load. It WILL kill deer, but you may not recover it unless you brain shoot it.

A 9MM pistol with a 4" long pistol barrel shooting a 124 grain bullet is just subsonic in most cases. And that's a bullet of 2X the weight of the 60 gr 22.

Do you think a 9MM with 1/2 a bullet is a good deer load?

Overall I think this may be a bad idea.

It can be done and it might be done well, but it's still a stunt and lacks respect for the deer and for hunting as a whole.

If you want to shoot sub-sonic loads at deer I recommend something more powerful.
A 300 Whisper is just ok. Same speed as a standard velocity 22 LR (not High Velocity) but with bullets of 200 to 220 grains. That's the same weight as a 20 gauge slug, but 750 FPS slower.

A 458 SOCOM is a LOT better. A 500 grain 45 cal bullet going 1150 FPS is the same as the old black powder 45-70 infantry load was at 75 yards. That load was just fine for killing buffalo.

Please, before you proceed you should think of the variables.
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Old December 26, 2017, 04:22 PM   #12
cornkolb
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Sounds like i will not be hunting deer with my subsonic load. I was thinking a cast bullet performance would be better than a jacket bullet. For what its worth the subsonic load shot 13 inches low at 40 yards thru my rem 700 sps tactical that is sighted in at 100 yards.
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Old December 27, 2017, 10:18 AM   #13
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If you want slow for hunting I think you have to add Heavy. 45-70s are slow, but the heavy slugs killed millions of buffalo.

I like cast bullets in 223s but for plinking, target practice and small game. You reduce the velocity of 224 bullets, as others said, you end up with a 22. Which is ok, I shoot a lot of 55 gr cast bullets in my 223s, but not for big game. Using cast bullets gets the price of 223s below what I can buy 22 RF around here. About $3 per 50.

For sub sonic, you need something along the lines of the 45-70, Shotgun Rifle Slugs, or you might try muzzle loaders.

If you are looking for QUIET, check out the SilencerCo Maxim 50, a non ATF regulated Suppressed Muzzle loader.
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