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Old October 27, 2017, 07:03 AM   #26
jimbob86
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at some point will come down to only those that can afford it.
"Need" and "poor" are very confusing terms in a country where people with trendy clothes, expensive hair and nails chat on the latest i-phone as they buy out the meat counter of t-bone steaks with an EBT card ......
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Old October 27, 2017, 07:08 AM   #27
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at some point will come down to only those that can afford it.
but my greatest concern is that if hunting becomes a rich man's game, it will go the way of fox hunting in England: very few could afford to do it, and the "slacktivists" mentioned above outnumbered them immensely..... people that know nothing of the issue and had no skin in the game can be easily swayed....... done.
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Old October 27, 2017, 10:09 AM   #28
Glenn E. Meyer
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Here's a good read on the issue. Look at the graph on the change in advertising in the American Rifleman, if you download the paper.

https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/jt8qa/
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Old October 27, 2017, 11:40 AM   #29
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I introduced my boys to deer hunting early, age 6/7
Only went when I thought they had a 50/50 chance of seeing something, never sat more than 3 hours in blind and they had electronics to occupy them.
They each got a deer with a .223 AR15 by the time they were 8 years old.
Subsequent year or the next each got a deer with crossbow.
Two deer each total by ages 10/11

At ages 12/13 they would rather play X-Box and watch youtube than hunt, or even shoot guns for fun; I'm not shoving either down their throat, I mentioned it a couple times and can see they are not interested.

I had fishing shoved down my throat as a kid/teen and now I disdain the thought of sitting in a boat on the lake, over 20 years since I last went and I don't miss it. I'll not make the same mistake with my kids.
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Old October 27, 2017, 04:43 PM   #30
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Like most things it is more complicated.

1. Younger people have a lot of cheaper more exciting entertainment options. Starting in Gen X playing video games doesn't stop when you hit 18.

2. Land access is much more difficult in my area than when I hear it was 50+ years ago. A few people around me had great tracts of land for hunting when I started hunting. All said no and I could understand why except for three. Those three I had babysat their kids or grand-kids. In all cases girls. The idea that they left me alone with their daughters or grand daughters, but didn't trust me hunting on their property absolutely blew my mind. Had done work on their places, watched animals, borrowed vehicles, etc. Still wouldn't let me hunt. Never understood it. All were open enough to guns to own shotguns or 30-30s.

3. I can't hunt for what I can buy decent meat at Aldi's, even after I have bought most of the equipment. I live in an urban area and need to travel to hunt. IRS says that driving my car costs me about $.55 a mile for write offs. Every day I hunt I am driving 40 miles or more, so that is $21. State limits the weapons I can hunt with such that I only use them for hunting. That means I need to check zero each fall, etc. A few bucks there and 20 mile trip to the range. Maybe a day off work thrown in there. More time to scout. Processing the meat yourself is great if you have a barn or garage you can do it in ad understanding neighbors. I've done it. It makes quite a bloody mess.

4. Not many people want to eat the meat. Summer sausage or some really spiced up jerky, sure, but a steak doesn't get much interest. Might as well just use turkey or beef from Aldi's if I they want it so spicy they can't taste the meat.

There are other things. The biggest most exciting group of new hunters prone to growth seems to be women young and old.

I go hunting to relax. I was checked by ranger two years ago on a cold rainy day because he said I was the only one he saw out. I told him I'd taken the day off work and decided I could nap in my chair-blind and relax better than at home with the wife.
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Old October 27, 2017, 07:16 PM   #31
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I sat and conversed with the last of his generation, my 86 year old uncle. He was old, legally blind, and on oxygen, but still sharp as a new scalpel. Every year he guided and outfitted from the 1950s until he got too old to guide. He still hosted hunters, allowing them to use the cabin, and having hot meals ready for them, right up until the day he died. We spoke at length about the weekend warrior modern trophy hunters. Charles had a tobacco stain running down his chin, as he said, "Yep, yearling, non-lactating doe, or cow, lactating doe or cow, then buck or bull, for the best meat to the worst." Since he was no longer guiding, and I was, I ask him, "So, how are this years wannabes doing?" He replied, "They wandered all around the meadows, long after the deer have taken to the deep brush for cover." I took a dip from his Copenhagen, and said, "Yeah, most of the clowns I drove past down south had way too much crap with them, to get back where the mule deer were. It was a really dry year, so all the deer were down by the river. My party had their tags filled before 3:00 PM and we all got back before dark. Utah had such an infestation of deer in one area they had two doe for $90 out of state license! That was my trip." Finding private or BLM land is getting harder and harder. Urban sprawl, and rural developments are making it harder each year. I am glad my best years are behind me. Now ranchers want $4000 to hunt on their land. Charles and my father fished & hunted to eat and survive. No one blocked access or demanded money back then, or if they did, it was a short lived endeavor. Kind of a FU see what happens the next time you are broke down on the roadside in winter, or need some help. Jicarilla wants a $40,000 minimum bid for trophy hunting on tribal lands. Bighorn sheep is also a $50,000+ bid to be drawn. WHT? $50,000 starting bid, just to get a tag? Better yet, how about $50,000 to be entered in a drawing?
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Old October 28, 2017, 05:48 AM   #32
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Time is a big factor. I have a lot of pressure on me to provide for my family. That means going to work where I know I'll get paid for my time. I love the outdoors and experiencing nature and wildlife, but scouting for game, tracking sign, and spending the time in the wild does not pay and doesn't guarantee anything. Then there is the cost of equipment and the time needed to be proficient with it. My 13 year old has expressed interest and I'm trying to get him out there, but, honestly, we are ill equipped. He is an athlete which cuts into time. I don't let him miss games or practices. Sports are a commitment. When he and I do have time, there are other things he'd rather be doing. I could ramble on and on about my personal challenges that prevent me from hunting or being able to mentor my own children in hunting.

In the end, time, money, access, and living in our modern world with all of it's demands are why I don't hunt like my dad did and why my kids are getting even less exposure. I'm doing what I can to get them out there, but it is a real struggle. Also because of my afformentioned limitations, success will be questionable.
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Old October 28, 2017, 06:02 AM   #33
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I should be in the woods waiting for the sun to come up and a turkey to come down from roost with my son, but fall turkey snuck up on me, I'll have to cash in my change jar for hunting licenses and a box of shells. Meanwhile my boss is on vacation to hunt while I make half as much money to cover for him while he's gone.

Sorry for going off on a tangent. Stress has me losing sleep...life is hard, the struggle is real.
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Old October 28, 2017, 09:00 AM   #34
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Thurs at the barber shop I heard on the radio about the use of cyanide bombs for coyote control here. Well duh of course those bombs will indiscriminantly wipe out other wildlife. Why not have a good old fashioned coyote shoot???
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Old October 28, 2017, 10:28 AM   #35
Glenn E. Meyer
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I forgot the URL in my previous to an article describing hunting vs. SD changes in advertising.

So - https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/jt8qa/
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Old October 28, 2017, 03:12 PM   #36
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For many state wildlife agencies, there is little funding from the states' general revenue. The majority comes from hunting/fishing license sales and from the federal excise tax on firearms.

The federal money is distributed among the states based on the number of hunting licenses sold in each state.

A decline in the sale of hunting licenses can reduce the funds available for enforcement of hunting laws and for the research into the various wildlife matters such as health and census.
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Old October 28, 2017, 09:59 PM   #37
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Hunting these days has become a preppy sport. Some of my cousins from Atlanta came down and were hunting a few weeks ago. It looked like the Cabellas store got drug into the woods. They were telling me all about their new scent control camo, face nets, deer lures, deer calls, and all kind of other Crap. As always, I went hunting in my blue jeans, plaid shirt, and work boots. I saw a pile of deer. Passed up some real nice bucks (they will be nicer next year). They didn't see anything.
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Old October 28, 2017, 11:00 PM   #38
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Thurs at the barber shop I heard on the radio about the use of cyanide bombs for coyote control here. Well duh of course those bombs will indiscriminantly wipe out other wildlife. Why not have a good old fashioned coyote shoot???
Having just recently moved from a northern suburb of Denver I have to ask: did they get the rabbit and prairie dog population under control first?
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Old October 28, 2017, 11:07 PM   #39
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Reasons I don't hunt anymore:

I’m a boomer, and as a kid went bird, deer and small animal hunting with relatives.

I love the outdoors, am an avid hiker / backpacker, but haven’t been a hunter in decades. But I love to go to the range and shoot .22's to .50 BMG's.

Some of my reasons:

Safety practices of many (mainly deer) hunters using rifles is scary, regardless of required safety classes
- Too many hunters in close proximity
- Drinking and hunting seems common, but the woods / hunting camps seem to have a measurable share of the impaired
- Shooting at game in areas where it’s hard to see what’s behind the game is common, and how 'accidents' happen
- Using high capacity mags and unloading them at distances they have little chance of hitting the intended game but likely will wiz over other's heads

Siting in a blind in the cold doesn’t excite me anymore

Finding someone in your (lawfully placed) stand and not willing to move

The total cost per pound is very expensive if you try to justify ‘putting meat on the table’
- If you like venison, there are many places to buy it

Removing / finding bird shot in birds is a pain and hard on the teeth if you cook the shot

The gear can get pretty expensive

Just informational, I know I’m not alone, not trying to start a fight.
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Old October 28, 2017, 11:18 PM   #40
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Usually I'm more concerned about the outdoor cat population, but there certainly are a lot of bunnies and prairie rats all over the place still. I personally prefer foxes do that control, coyotes can sometimes be agressive towards people.
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Old October 29, 2017, 11:27 AM   #41
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Here in Maryland...deer management by the DNR has been a travesty of sorts.
Some being: That the Maryland DNR is in cahoots with the automobile insurance industry, that wants the Maryland deer herd wiped-out, due to so many deer collision insurance claims. Plus...the farmers are granted to many deer crop damage permits, then they lease out the land to deer hunters; so that the local deer herd is decimated --- other than large suburban areas where deer hunting is limited or prohibited.

This 'travesty' is accomplished by early muzzleloader seasons {before the deer rut}, that limits the chances of deer to breed, with the ultimate goal of large reductions with the deer population in Maryland.
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Old October 29, 2017, 11:30 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by reynolds357 View Post
I bought my kids lifetime hunting licenses when they were born.I knew the state would price them out one day. Licenses keep going up because government is inefficient. Got to take money from us to pay the rabbit sheriff to aggravate us. I break no game laws but have had several hunts ruined by the rabbit sheriff checking my license.
I've never seen the price of resident general hunting licenses(deer, turkey, small game) as being pricey, nor exorbitant, especially when compared to the price of equipment and other related hunting costs. It's access to decent places to hunt that has gotten so pricey. Recreational land around here is $3-5000 an acre. Most of the good stuff is already gone. Large farms have been broken up into 40-80 acre parcels so folks with deep pockets can have their own piece of heaven. Then they post the property or complain to the sheriff if you shoot. "OMG! They're shooting at us and our miniature ponies!". Public land is underfunded for the most part. I'm lucky, I have several large parcels of public that are not always over-run. Many other areas are not so lucky. Look at Texas and other states where you either hunt "ranches" or have to lease area to hunt.

As for the "bunny police", it's never been a problem for me when they check my license. Nice to know they are around. Much of what the do for prevention is done by showing their presence. I guarantee you tho, for everytime they checked your license, they probably checked you out another ten times without you knowing it. Most DNRs/F&Gs are very efficient and do a great job with the limited funds they have. Like some cops, some wardens can be jerks, but they are not the norm. At least not around here. Seems the more they deal with poachers/slob hunters tho, the more they check the licenses of us law abiding citizens.

The perspective of what hunting really is has changed a lot. Instead of folks going to the closest woodlot and taking any game they see for food, we have turned into shooters, content only that we have shot something bigger than someone else. Go to any gun/hunting forum and your see folks with pictures of themselves, dressed in the latest L.L. Bean safari wear, posed with a huge dead cow or exotic, shot at a high fence ranch. This was after they had wine and steak at the clubhouse, then rode in posh pickup to the heated blind, situated at the feeding station, where the animal had come to eat it's whole life before being deemed "large enough". It doesn't matter how much outdoormanship or skill the hunter has. It matters not how much scouting and research he didn't do, only that he had enough to cover the price tag of the animal he shoots.....and he takes great pride in that.
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Old October 29, 2017, 11:44 AM   #43
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"...deer meat kind of tastes like..." It's all about what Bambi has been eating and how his carcass was handled in the field. It'll be exactly the same with a hog. A hog that'll eat absolutely anything.
"...larger urban centers and folks are moving there..." That started happening 100 years ago. Current city people are retiring and moving out of urban areas. That causes a lack of available hunting land. Lot of 'em buy a small farm or acreage and deny access to hunters. And like disseminator says, urban sprawl has made the drive to suitable hunting areas much longer. Takes at least a half hour to get out of TO now. Took 5 minutes in the 60's.
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Old October 29, 2017, 02:22 PM   #44
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As for the "bunny police", it's never been a problem for me when they check my license. Nice to know they are around. Much of what the do for prevention is done by showing their presence. I guarantee you tho, for everytime they checked your license, they probably checked you out another ten times without you knowing it. Most DNRs/F&Gs are very efficient and do a great job with the limited funds they have. Like some cops, some wardens can be jerks, but they are not the norm. At least not around here. Seems the more they deal with poachers/slob hunters tho, the more they check the licenses of us law abiding citizens.
My biggest gripe with the rabbit sheriff around here is that he is lazy. He puts no real effort into catching violators (my neighbor who baits, spotlights, hunts out of season). Old rabbit sheriff just drives around in his truck and 4 wheeler and checks people he can drive to. I only get checked when I forget and leave the gate open. He aint walking far, Old pot belly getting the best of him. He is nice enough, just borderline worthless.
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Old October 29, 2017, 04:43 PM   #45
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I've only been around hunters drinking once. My old boss won a trip to a dove hunting outfitter with lodging. Went out in the morning and came back to lunch when. Many began drinking. There was maybe a score of people. So when we went back out in the afternoon I chose to hunt in the woods for rabbits as I didn't want to be around drunk people swinging shotguns around! 2 rabbits were better than nothing.

However my old boss and any other people he brought out saved drinking for the evening when things were done.
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Old October 29, 2017, 08:11 PM   #46
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I'm twenty three and I've stopped deer hunting because it is not practical. For the amount of money one must invest on licenses, proper clothing for the weather, ammunition, etc you can buy beef from the supermarket and still save money.
I've stopped hunting deer because as neither myself nor my family have land, I have to hunt the public lands around a major metropolitan area, which cannot support the number of "hunters" in the area. The deer on the public lands are never more than a couple years old, and to see one you must deal with every asshat in the woods. I recall scouting one season around a clearing the size of a couple football fields, lined around all edges like the civil war with tree stands. 10 + stands for such a small area. You go out into the woods for solitude and to test your knowlodge and luck against an animal, and are yelled at by Bubba in his ladder stand, with his 870 and in all his 300lb, glory, with his coffee can full of cigarettte butts and cliff bar wrappers, when you walk anywhere near their stand on the way to yours.

Is hunting on the decline? No. It's more popular than ever.

So I've left the club. If I want to enjoy the woods nowadays I just go for a hike.

Just my experience and 2 cents.
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Old October 30, 2017, 04:25 AM   #47
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If there are any young kids in my area wanting to go hunting i'm all for it. I have been hunting for about 30 years now and started when I was 7. As a teen money for a license was well spent as we barely had any. I remember between the 3 families we would shoot around 12 deer to fill the freezer. That would get us through the winter till fish became our main meal.

Now I make some money and have 4 weeks of paid vacation so I take 1 week to fish with my dad and another to deer hunt with him. Doing it this way it's not just about the deer but spending time with family. Yeah my out of state license may cost $265 for two deer, small game and all species fish but that's my major expense. Staying with my parents is free, food is cheap, and time is priceless. In the long run it's cheaper than my other vacations.

When I was in college I had to give up hunting to get decent grades but my parents still would drop off fish and deer meat.

Now fall is upon us I duck hunt once a week and pheasant hunt 2-3 because the public grounds are close. If a lot of people in the woods bothers you weekdays are great but bowhunting for deer is even better than a sea of orange.

I'll be out pheasant hunting tomorrow with a 88 year old Air Corps veteran and he loves being out even if he doesn't shoot anything.
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Old October 30, 2017, 04:14 PM   #48
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I just heard about a deer hunting participant, that sets his tree climber stand about 30 yards from his other hunting participants hunting cabin. Another participant comes out the door of the 'spot-o-pot/latrine,' next to the hunting cabin...then spots the hunter, up in the tree, not more than 30 yards away from him. Then the same tree stand hunter -- while still up in the tree -- complains about the noise coming from the portable generator, next to the cabin, when some of the other hunters start it up.
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Old October 30, 2017, 06:14 PM   #49
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I went to the scrap yard yesterday to get some cash to finance my son and I this season. $130 worth of scrap. It was gone after 3 boxes of ammo (60 rounds), 1 basic resident adult hunting license, and 1 junior license. That may not be much to many people, but for me that's a week's worth of groceries. My scrap money is typically my firearm fund so as not to dip into the grocery or bill money.
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Old October 30, 2017, 08:43 PM   #50
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I went to the scrap yard yesterday to get some cash to finance my son and I this season. $130 worth of scrap. It was gone after 3 boxes of ammo (60 rounds), 1 basic resident adult hunting license, and 1 junior license. That may not be much to many people, but for me that's a week's worth of groceries. My scrap money is typically my firearm fund so as not to dip into the grocery or bill money.
That is a shame. Hunting should be affordable. This is the backwoods USA, not an African safari. Gun and ammo prices are what they are, but the government should quit dipping their hand in our pockets.
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