SBR a dying concept?

[dogtown tom]

Nanuk ....I can carry my AR pistol pretty much every where I go without asking anyone's permission.

Really? Never been to Texas??? 'Cause you'll need the State of Texas' permission to carry your AR pistol.....but you wouldn't need it to carry an SBR.

You'll also need permission in nearly every state in the U.S.:
Alabama without a holster.....you do use a holster for your AR pistol don't you?
California concealed requires a permit, open carry requires a permit.
Colorado you can't carry concealed or open without a permit.
Connecticut has a stroke over such evil pistols.
Delaware requires a permit to carry concealed
D.C. No open carry and carrying concealed likely requires a lengthy court battle.
Florida no open carry without a concealed carry license.
Georgia.....I could go on and on but you really CAN'T go wherever you want without asking someone's permission.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_la...tates_by_state

[armoredman]

Arizona wouldn't care much, as long as he isn't a prohibited possessor.

[Nanuk]

Really? Never been to Texas??? 'Cause you'll need the State of Texas' permission to carry your AR pistol.....but you wouldn't need it to carry an SBR.

You'll also need permission in nearly every state in the U.S.:
Alabama without a holster.....you do use a holster for your AR pistol don't you?
California concealed requires a permit, open carry requires a permit.
Colorado you can't carry concealed or open without a permit.
Connecticut has a stroke over such evil pistols.
Delaware requires a permit to carry concealed
D.C. No open carry and carrying concealed likely requires a lengthy court battle.
Florida no open carry without a concealed carry license.
Georgia.....I could go on and on but you really CAN'T go wherever you want without asking someone's permission.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_la...tates_by_state
__________________
Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers)

Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE

Ever been to Texas? I was a cop in Ft Worth for 6 years and Border Patrol in El Paso.

Its called LEOSA. I can carry it wherever. Try taking a SBR on a road trip legally. No need to be a smart alec.

[armoredman]

LEOSA...wish it covered more people. My cousin was a cop in Fort Worth for years, too, nice place.

[Nanuk]

To cross state lines with an SBR you need a mother may I from ATF and it must speciffy where you are going and why. Several states are nogo' s simply because NFA items are illegal there. The utility of the AR pistol is not that one is going to carry it in the same manner as a CCW but that you can carry it loaded in the car with you, legally. An SBR is still a rifle. Many states have laws that regulate loaded rifles in vehicles that are vastly different than the laws on pistols. The only real concern I have is states with magazine capacity laws, by many of those states I have no reason or desire to visit.

I see two disinct camps here. The SBR camp, those who have invested in them and feel they are the greatest thing since sliced bread and the AR pistol camp who says hmm I can do pretty much the same thing without the red tape and cost.

Have used machine guns, SBR's, sub guns and about everything in between for almost 40 years and I am sold on the AR pistol concept after using one and shooting competively with it against guys with carbines.

[dogtown tom]

Nanuk .....Its called LEOSA. I can carry it wherever. Try taking a SBR on a road trip legally.

I do....regularly & legally. No ATF permission slip needed. And I'm not covered under LEOSA either.

Your special status under LEOSA is misleading as to the legality and complexity of traveling the US with firearms.

No need to be a smart alec.

You think I was being a smartaleck for pointing out the fallacy of your claim? Note that you never mentioned about being able to carry under LEOSA and since you have I'll point out that you may not be aware that carrying under LEOSA doesn't allow you to carry "wherever".
LEOSA doesn't grant you the same concealed carry rights as does a CHL/LTC/CCW issued by a state. For example, restrictions imposed by a business (like a "No Guns" sign) or even in state government buildings here in Texas..........'cause if you aren't licensed in Texas, you can't carry concealed in a state government building.


Further, and maybe most importantly, LEOSA doesn't exempt you from the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act for example......you'll need PERMISSION in the form of that states firearms permit to possess a firearm when within 1,000ft of a school. Didn't know that did ya? Think about how many schools are within 1,000ft of an interstate highway, much less surface streets.

So every time you been traveling thinking you don't need anyone's permission........you've been committing felony after felony. So much for "wherever" right?

You might want to read this:http://le.nra.org/leosa/off-limit-areas.aspx
and this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_En...A_Restrictions

So in short, yeah, you can't carry "wherever".

[Nanuk]

Tom, I also have a license from my state.

You cannot carry loaded, in your car a registered SBR in many places, you cannot cross state lines with an SBR without prior written permission from BATFE which specifies where you are going and for what purpose. You do not need to do that with a pistol.

No need to take it to extremes, the fact is that carrying an SBR is more restrictive than carrying a pistol.

[dogtown tom]

Nanuk Tom, I also have a license from my state.

Good, but that and LEOSA don't offer any exemption from the Federal GFSZA when you are outside your state of residence.

You cannot carry loaded, in your car a registered SBR in many places,

Citation please.

you cannot cross state lines with an SBR without prior written permission from BATFE which specifies where you are going and for what purpose. You do not need to do that with a pistol.

True. But getting permission is easier than getting a CHL/CCW/LTC and can cover every state and a calendar year...it's done all the time.

No need to take it to extremes, the fact is that carrying an SBR is more restrictive than carrying a pistol.

No sir, the FACT isn't, and I've provided you the links above to show you where and why your claim of "I can carry my AR pistol pretty much every where I go without asking anyone's permission" just isn't true.

[CalmerThanYou]

I am pretty content to let the legal teams at SB Tactical and Sig sort this out for me. My braced pistols will stay exactly as purchased from the manufacturer. And I find them to be just fine as is. 9mm has minimal recoil so they shoot like a dream.

[Chainsaw.]

Whereas Im researching how to fill out the paperwork to SBR a couple of my guns.

[dogtown tom]

Chainsaw. Whereas Im researching how to fill out the paperwork to SBR a couple of my guns.

No better step by step:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/W...ons/17-465636/

[raimius]

Dogtown Tom,
It depends on the state. Some states have laws that make it illegal to carry loaded rifles or shotguns in vehicles.

WA: https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460
WI: http://dnr.wi.gov/emergency/document...wis_act_51.pdf
MN: http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd...ssfiretrns.pdf

[dogtown tom]

raimius Dogtown Tom,
It depends on the state. Some states have laws that make it illegal to carry loaded rifles or shotguns in vehicles.

WA: https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460
WI: http://dnr.wi.gov/emergency/document...wis_act_51.pdf
MN: http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd...ssfiretrns.pdf

I'm aware of that.....what Nanuck is claiming is that there are states that specifically prohibit carrying a loaded SBR in a car.

[Nanuk]

Citation please.

No need, I understand your ignorance on the matter as Texas has no laws to the effect, however, many states do. They are usually listed under game and fish laws. Yes they are misdemeanors, but they are still the law.

you cannot cross state lines with an SBR without prior written permission from BATFE which specifies where you are going and for what purpose. You do not need to do that with a pistol.

True. But getting permission is easier than getting a CHL/CCW/LTC and can cover every state and a calendar year...it's done all the time.

Carry license is not the topic here, nice deflection.
https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/form20

Keep telling yourself that it is just as easy to transport an NFA item as a pistol, it does not make it anymore truthful.

No sir, the FACT isn't, and I've provided you the links above to show you where and why your claim of "I can carry my AR pistol pretty much every where I go without asking anyone's permission" just isn't true.

Ok, You got me. I should have said " I can carry a loaded AR pistol anywhere I can carry my Glock". Of course one must be aware of magazine capacity limits.

I see two very polarized camps, one says " Check it out AR pistol", The other feels a necessity to justify the extra expense of an SBR and say "AR pistols are just toys, no serious rifleman would such an abomination."

Other than a buttstock the SBR has no benefit over the AR pistol, learn to properly and legally run the AR pistol and any benefit rapidly disappears. At current prices I can have an AR pistol in 2 calibers for less than 1 SBR, and no 1 year wait for paperwork.

How many states do not allow citizens to own SBR's?

[Nanuk]

I'm aware of that.....what Nanuck is claiming is that there are states that specifically prohibit carrying a loaded SBR in a car.

SBR = Short Barreled Rifle. They are mostly listed as Game and Fish laws.

[dogtown tom]

Nanuk

No need, I understand your ignorance on the matter as Texas has no laws to the effect, however, many states do.

Horsehockey. If you can't or refuse to back up your claim it's probably not true.
AGAIN, citation please. When you make the claim that "many states" prohibit carrying a loaded SBR in your car you should have an idea of what "many states" you are talking about.

They are usually listed under game and fish laws. Yes they are misdemeanors, but they are still the law.

Again, NAME THEM.

Carry license is not the topic here, nice deflection.
https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/form20

Keep telling yourself that it is just as easy to transport an NFA item as a pistol, it does not make it anymore truthful.

It's not a "deflection" to show that a CHL/CCW/LTC is "permission".......just like a 5320.20 is "permission".

Nanuk

SBR = Short Barreled Rifle. They are mostly listed as Game and Fish laws.

I think everyone is clear as to what "SBR" is the acronym for..........what we're not clear on is what states prohibit carrying a loaded SBR in your car.

You have yet to provide a single citation that shows such. If it's "many states" surely you can come up with a dozen or so?

[ttarp]

I'm glad the pistols work for you, I don't have the skill nor the inclination to take the time training with a pistol to the same proficiency I have with a stock. And don't take that as sarcasm, I'm genuinely happy it works for you, and for those who like the braces as well. I may seem a fool to you, but in my circumstances a stamp and a stock work best for me.

[raimius]

Dogtown Tom, if a state prohibits carrying any kind of loaded rifle in a car, SBRs would be included (unless their law defines "rifle" as not including NFA firearms). I'm not sure why you are trying to be so picky about this. If I cannot carry a rifle, then I cannot carry a short-barreled rifle.

As many firearms discussions go, I'll advocate the correct answer is "get both!"

[Nanuk]

You have yet to provide a single citation that shows such. If it's "many states" surely you can come up with a dozen or so?

You are the one so set about citations. Do your own research.

Here, even you might find something with GOOGLE.

https://www.google.com/search?q=load...utf-8&oe=utf-8

[Nanuk]

Dogtown Tom, if a state prohibits carrying any kind of loaded rifle in a car, SBRs would be included (unless their law defines "rifle" as not including NFA firearms). I'm not sure why you are trying to be so picky about this. If I cannot carry a rifle, then I cannot carry a short-barreled rifle.

He is wrong and just wants to bully his way through.

[dogtown tom]

raimius Dogtown Tom, if a state prohibits carrying any kind of loaded rifle in a car, SBRs would be included (unless their law defines "rifle" as not including NFA firearms).

I agree.
But that isn't Nanuks claim.
He believes SBR's are specifically prohibited that "You cannot carry loaded, in your car a registered SBR in many places"..........I want to know where, yet he refuses to provide a citation. Probably because he doesn't have one.

He started posting about his supposed ability to carry his AR pistol anywhere without permission and I told him why that wasn't true, now he's inventing laws about SBR's.

While it possible that there are some states that prohibit transporting any loaded firearm in your car, I'll bet that applies to equally to rifles, shotguns, pistols and SBR's...........not specifically only SBR's.

I'm not sure why you are trying to be so picky about this. If I cannot carry a rifle, then I cannot carry a short-barreled rifle.

True, and I'm not disagreeing with that. In fact that's probably correct in the overwhelming majority of states......that you can open carry a rifle or SBR. Why I'm being so "picky"? Because Nanuk is pulling laws out of thin air. And that's wrong.

[dogtown tom]

Nanuk

You are the one so set about citations. Do your own research.

Sorry, YOU made the claim, YOU get to back it up. I've already shot down your supposed ability to carry "wherever".....now man up and provide a citation.

Nanuk He is wrong and just wants to bully his way through.

No need for name calling, but there is a need for you to back up your claims. Otherwise you are just spouting nonsense and cluttering up a thread with ignorance.

[dogtown tom]

Nanuk Here, even you might find something with GOOGLE.

https://www.google.com/search?q=load...utf-8&oe=utf-8

Well, I did......the FIRST result:
http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd...ssfiretrns.pdf
Doesn't say A DARN THING ABOUT SBR'S.......but prohibits transporting ANY loaded firearm INCLUDING a handgun without a MN license!!!!

Same with the SECOND

The THIRD?........has to do with HUNTING ONLY! If you aren't hunting that citation doesn't apply. You should know that being an ex LEO.

Oh, and the FIFTH result?.............Arkansas doesn't prohibit transporting a loaded firearm including an SBR in your car.

Sometimes Google is your friend and sometimes Google isn't.

[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by Dogtown tom

No need for name calling, but there is a need for you to back up your claims.

"Bully" above is a verb, not a name. Moreover, you appear to be asking for Nanul to provide citation for your misunderstanding rather than his claim. I'll unpack this for you.

Originally Posted by Dogtown tom

But that isn't Nanuks claim.
He believes SBR's are specifically prohibited that "You cannot carry loaded, in your car a registered SBR in many places"

That is incorrect. The claim wasn't that a prohibition was specific to SBRs but that the legal treatment is more restrictive in some places than for a pistol. The latter clearly true. Repetitively asking for citation for the former isn't insightful.

Ohio treats rifles and pistols differently. One example is the way loaded items are treated in vehicles. There are exceptions for items carried under a concealed carry permit, but those are only for handguns.

Originally Posted by Dogtown tom

He started posting about his supposed ability to carry his AR pistol anywhere without permission and I told him why that wasn't true, now he's inventing laws about SBR's.

He actually claimed "I can legally carry a loaded pistol in many places I cannot a carbine or SBR."

See the difference?

Originally Posted by Dogtown tom

While it possible that there are some states that prohibit transporting any loaded firearm in your car, I'll bet that applies to equally to rifles, shotguns, pistols and SBR's...........not specifically only SBR's.

Happily for you, no one took the other end of that bet.

[Nanuk]

Tom, an SBR ( SHORT BARRELED RIFLE) is a RIFLE.....It belongs in that classification, A pistol is not a RIFLE......Anywhere you cannot carry a loaded RIFLE you cannot carry a loaded SBR. I already gave you a retraction, I said I miss spoke, I guess you just want to argue about nothing.

I am not pulling laws from nothing, I originally used the term SBR, when I suppose I should have used rifle so that you could more clearly understand.