The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > NFA Guns and Gear

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 18, 2009, 05:04 AM   #51
Powderman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2001
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,166
I understand. My apologies--I didn't even think of that.

Regarding subsonic ammunition--the threshold for subsonic ammo is right around 1100 fps. There are other factory offerings--my department uses Federal 147 grain HydraShok, in subsonic loads, for our suppressed MP5's.
__________________
Hiding in plain sight...
Powderman is offline  
Old December 18, 2009, 10:54 AM   #52
David Hineline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 1999
Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska
Posts: 704
"its not really a suppressor unless you have subsonic ammunition's(1100 fps) i think"

Its around 800 FPS .The .45 ACP is the only factory ammo. that qualifies .


If you had actually every shot one rather than just read about it in some book you would not say that.
David Hineline is offline  
Old December 18, 2009, 12:11 PM   #53
p99guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2004
Location: Haslet,Texas(DFW area)
Posts: 1,506
Hinline is correct.....first and formost it quiets the muzzle gasses, regardless of the speed of the bullet.

there are 3 noise factors: 1 mechanical noise of the firearm, 2 the muzzle gasses, 3 the bullet flight noise.

of all of these the muzzle gasses are the loudest, and the main thing a suppressor is made to reduce(although some designs encorporate ported barrels to reduce the speed of the bullet, to control bullet noise as well.
the factory MP5SD is one example, but MP5's with "muzzle cans" do nothing for bullet velocity reduction.
All the special ops guys you see with cans on thier M4, are using regular supersonic ball ammo in them, but it protects thier hearing still...and bullet flight noise is a really odd thing in combat...its a vantriloquist act in action lol it never sounds to the target to be comming from the actual direction that it is( often making them shoot in all directions, and run at you thinking they are breaking contact( they are many stories of this from Viet Nam with the old Sionic suppressors used for night ambushes on M16A1's and M14's equipped with starlight scopes.

a suppressor serves the same exact role/job as the muffler on your car
__________________
Lighten up Francis!.....;Actor Warren Oats, in the movie "Stripes"

Last edited by p99guy; December 18, 2009 at 12:19 PM.
p99guy is offline  
Old December 18, 2009, 07:02 PM   #54
RAnb
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2008
Location: WA, USA
Posts: 447
Quote:
Its around 800 FPS .The .45 ACP is the only factory ammo. that qualifies .
Wrong twice in one sentence. The speed of sound varies from 1051 fps at 0 F to 1160 at 100 F. There is much more factory ammo available than 45 acp that is subsonic. What are they teaching in AZ anyway?

Ranb
RAnb is offline  
Old December 19, 2009, 03:26 PM   #55
richmondtx
Member
 
Join Date: December 19, 2009
Location: The Lone Star State
Posts: 39
NFA weapons & grief

New here...but not new to NFA, I own 8 NFA articles ranging from silencers, machine guns to short barreled semi-auto shotguns all duly registered. I have NEVER been given grief about what I own, heck I build the duty .223 SBRs for my county sheriff's deputies and my 01 FFL is the Sargent with the local PD and Captain of our local SWAT team.

I've even had the pleasure of being pulled over by a pair of LEOs outside my county and had my silenced pistol in a case next to me. I'm a CHL and had my paperwork, they looked, drooled, and wanted my phone number so that they could call me later to ask as to how they could get "cans" for their fun guns.

Funny how that works...As long as you are abiding by the law and not ignorant of it, folks will leave you alone...for the most part, at least they do in Tx.
richmondtx is offline  
Old February 11, 2010, 04:08 PM   #56
450NE
Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2008
Posts: 22
This thread is funny in that it is a reflection of our views here in the U.S. In most countries that allow guns, suppressors are available over the counter.

I don't know any country that allows guns that makes suppressors illegal except us.

I mean really, why do you want all that noise ? It's noisy enough with the suppressors. Sure a .45 is subsonic but have you ever fired a .45 pistol with a suppressor ? Still awfully loud (I have a H&K with a Gemtech Suppressor. It's really noisy.

However, I have a .45 cal rifle that is incredibly quiet with an integrally suppressed barrell.
__________________
If you like fine guns, I invite you to take a look at my personal collection. Click on my User Name and then go to my website. Hope you enjoy !
450NE is offline  
Old February 11, 2010, 07:31 PM   #57
P90Puma
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2009
Posts: 2
Canada allows firearms and silencers are illegal, pretty sure more then just the US and Canada.
P90Puma is offline  
Old February 11, 2010, 08:04 PM   #58
PTK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2008
Posts: 442
Quote:
Sure a .45 is subsonic but have you ever fired a .45 pistol with a suppressor ? Still awfully loud (I have a H&K with a Gemtech Suppressor. It's really noisy.
No offense, but Gemtec .45ACP silencers are horrible compared to modern technology. I've heard .45 USPs with modern stuff that are marginally louder than .22lr auto-pistols with a silencer.
PTK is offline  
Old February 11, 2010, 08:13 PM   #59
450NE
Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2008
Posts: 22
Yeah, I guess you can say Canada allows guns. Not handguns though, that's for sure. Canada and the US worked hand in hand during the prohibition so it doesn't surprise me that they would have passed similar laws.

But, even Canada's Queen allows it in Britain.

Cheers,
__________________
If you like fine guns, I invite you to take a look at my personal collection. Click on my User Name and then go to my website. Hope you enjoy !

Last edited by 450NE; February 11, 2010 at 08:24 PM.
450NE is offline  
Old February 11, 2010, 08:23 PM   #60
450NE
Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2008
Posts: 22
There's usually a quote button on theese forums. I can't find this one. In any case this is to PTK.

I can't speak to that but I wasn't really very clear with my post. I am actually referring to all the other sounds that go off when a 45 pistol is fired suppressed. The slide and barrel operating sounds I am speaking of. I guess I was trying to say that there is more to "silence" than the subsonic bullet.

Sorry for not being clear.
__________________
If you like fine guns, I invite you to take a look at my personal collection. Click on my User Name and then go to my website. Hope you enjoy !
450NE is offline  
Old February 11, 2010, 08:31 PM   #61
jheitertusa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 19, 2002
Location: Indiana
Posts: 119
Quote:
Its around 800 FPS .The .45 ACP is the only factory ammo. that qualifies
.

As RAnb mentioned earlier, the speed of sound is the rate of travel of a sound wave through an elastic medium. In dry air at 20 °C (68 °F), the speed of sound is 1125 ft/s. Or about 768mph.

There are quite a few factory cartridges that qualify as "subsonic."
jheitertusa is offline  
Old February 11, 2010, 10:44 PM   #62
P90Puma
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2009
Posts: 2
Quote:
Yeah, I guess you can say Canada allows guns. Not handguns though, that's for sure. Canada and the US worked hand in hand during the prohibition so it doesn't surprise me that they would have passed similar laws.
Canada allows handguns. Barrel must be over 105mm (~4.1 inches), but we allow handguns.
P90Puma is offline  
Old February 12, 2010, 01:31 AM   #63
vwfool
Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2008
Posts: 33
A friend of mine and I both got our first NFA items a month or two apart. He got a .22 suppressor, and I got a .223 suppressor. The only grief either of us has experienced was actually from our wives. And no, it wasn't over the price. My budy's wife is very, very innocent minded, but we still love her. She is one of those ones that after watching the news just says how she can't believe they can get away with making up those stories because nobody could do all those mean things to each other in "real" life ( like the war in Iraq). Anyhow his wife acted strange for a week or two until she finally broke down into tears and talked to him. She thought that because he had a suppressor he was going to kill her and both their kids in the middle of the night. My budy and I got a real good laugh out of it. I figured my wife would think it was funny too, until she told me she thought the exact same thing. Oh well, a few years and a few more NFA items down the road, we all have a good laugh about it all.
vwfool is offline  
Old February 12, 2010, 09:15 AM   #64
CRUE CAB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 18, 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 200
The shop I picked up my little Walther yesterday had a customer in it that commented to me "why do people need THOSE type of guns". Pointing at the collecting of ARs, AKs and tactical shotguns.
I said, 50 bucks says you would not have said that if they all had wood stocks instead of black stocks.
CRUE CAB is offline  
Old February 13, 2010, 06:06 AM   #65
kyso
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2010
Posts: 1
question

I have a question for those here with fairly extensive NFA/ATF/BATFE know-how.

I have a suppressor that was purchased legally in NC. Pretty soon I will be relocating to Minnesota and it looks like suppressors are illegal there. Where does that leave me? Am I going to be mandated to get rid of it?? It has become my favorite toy and I really really don't want to give it back to a C3 dealer

Appreciate your help in advance.

v/r

kyso
kyso is offline  
Old February 13, 2010, 03:25 PM   #66
Wagonman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,005
Quote:
The only reason he talked to me for the ten minutes was he liked the way I modified the ar-15 upper, I ended up doing the same setup for him a couple weeks later so he turned into a customer.
Sweet
Wagonman is offline  
Old February 13, 2010, 03:53 PM   #67
Hkmp5sd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2001
Location: Winter Haven, Florida
Posts: 4,303
Quote:
I have a suppressor that was purchased legally in NC. Pretty soon I will be relocating to Minnesota and it looks like suppressors are illegal there. Where does that leave me? Am I going to be mandated to get rid of it?? It has become my favorite toy and I really really don't want to give it back to a C3 dealer
You may store the suppressor with family/friend or place it into public storage in NC. If left with someone, it must be left in a container they cannot open (only you have key), you must notify ATF where it is stored and you will need to leave a copy of your paperwork with them.
__________________
NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Safety, Personal Protection, Range Safety Officer

NRA Life Member
Hkmp5sd is offline  
Old February 15, 2010, 11:01 PM   #68
MJN77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2009
Location: on a hill in West Virginia
Posts: 789
I can't believe all you people with all that "NFA" stuff. FOR SHAME!!! Makes me jelous!! Next month I am going to venture into the NFA relm with a SBR. This will be my first NFA gun but hopefully not the last. I have to say, I don't think people need this kind of stuff either. Thats what makes it all the more fun. How fun is it to buy gas for your car to get to work? How fun is it to buy grocieries? How fun is it to pay the electric bill? All necessities. How fun is it to watch the game on your new flat screen tv? How fun is it to surprise the kids with a trip to Chucky Cheese or some such place and watch them lose their minds? How fun is it to bring home that rifle or pistol or supressor or MG that you've been wanting? All unnecessary.

Marshall
MJN77 is offline  
Old February 16, 2010, 11:13 AM   #69
colostomyclown
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2009
Posts: 613
his location says Minnesota.



Last I checked, it was perfectly legal to keep a firearm in the house in Minnesota.
colostomyclown is offline  
Old February 16, 2010, 09:56 PM   #70
condition_ONE
Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2010
Posts: 38
Quote:
As RAnb mentioned earlier, the speed of sound is the rate of travel of a sound wave through an elastic medium. In dry air at 20 °C (68 °F), the speed of sound is 1125 ft/s. Or about 768mph.
You're still leaving out what altitude you're measuring at...
condition_ONE is offline  
Old February 16, 2010, 10:10 PM   #71
ScottRiqui
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 2,905
The speed of sound in air is not directly affected by altitude. Temperature alone is enough to determine the speed of sound very closely. For a little more accuracy, you can include humidity as well.

The speed of sound in air may decrease with an increase in altitude, but if it does, it's a side effect of the decreased temperature (if any), not the altitude.

The speed of sound at 50 °F in Denver is the same as the speed of sound at 50 °F in Malibu or Pensacola.
ScottRiqui is offline  
Old February 21, 2010, 12:47 PM   #72
RAnb
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2008
Location: WA, USA
Posts: 447
Quote:
Last I checked, it was perfectly legal to keep a firearm in the house in Minnesota.
Most guns. It is a felony to merely possess some guns in MN. Minnesota is not on the short list of gun friendly states in the USA.

Ranb
RAnb is offline  
Old February 21, 2010, 01:09 PM   #73
RAnb
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2008
Location: WA, USA
Posts: 447
Quote:
I don't know any country that allows guns that makes suppressors illegal except us.
At the federal level silencers are not illegal, just strictly controlled. In fact ATF approval to make or buy a silencer is practially a rubber stamp for anyone living in one of the 37 states that allow them. I have never heard of anyone being denied approval as long as the forms were filled out correctly.

Ranb
RAnb is offline  
Old February 21, 2010, 01:29 PM   #74
Willie Lowman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2009
Location: Uh-Hi-O
Posts: 2,617
Quote:
I've heard .45 USPs with modern stuff that are marginally louder than .22lr auto-pistols with a silencer.
PTK, make and model of that can?
Willie Lowman is offline  
Old February 21, 2010, 07:05 PM   #75
PTK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2008
Posts: 442
TiRant .45acp from AAC. Full size, not military shorty.


I am not exaggerating - we're talking HOLLYWOOD quiet for a .45acp. It makes my experience with the Evo45 seem absurdly loud.


Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.advanced-armament.com/product.aspx?pid=178
With a wet charge of 5cc’s of water, the sound signature drops to 125 dB.

That's six dB quieter than the Evo45. That's.... really quiet. 41dB reduction with 5cc water.
PTK is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09985 seconds with 9 queries