The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > NFA Guns and Gear

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 21, 2008, 05:28 AM   #126
ZeroJunk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 14, 2006
Location: Browns Summit NC
Posts: 2,589
Ridge Runner, some of these guys have a monetary interest in the sale of sliencers. Others are recruits from some silencer forum. Good old boys I'm sure, but not representative. And there are a couple that just like silencers and can make a coherent sentence wiithout demonizing anybody who doesn't.


Quote:
Glad you finally figured out the point I made in post #50.

Post 50
Quote:
You might as well say that concealed carry is illegal in every state and oppose talking about it on forums because it makes gun owners look bad. Neither is true.
I was giving deference to VUPDblue because even though I disagree, he is civil. Comparing hunting licenses and pilot licenses to silencers and machine guns is a stretch to anybody other than the choir.

If you ask NC LEO's " Are silencers legal?" with no coaching, the answer will be overwhelmingly "No". If this is inconvenient perhaps some advertising would help since almost everybody is aware that concealed carry permits are obtainable although concealed weapons are still illegal otherwise. Few other than the choir would think the reward/benefit for the trouble involved between getting a CCW permit or a silencer "permit" is a valid comparison. Anything about disliking silencers making gun owners look bad or demonstating one is
Quote:
an enemy of shooters and the 2nd Amendment
is preposterous.

A bigger enemy to the perception of gun owners is the posts in public forums that come across as petty and shallow.
ZeroJunk is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 06:01 AM   #127
AZ-K9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2007
Posts: 2
" Harry Bonar
Senior Member

Join Date: 2004-12-05
Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area.
Posts: 1,436

silencers
Sirs;
I have simply given my opinion. That is all it is - it is simply no reason for the personal attacks which I deem to be mean spirited and impolite.
I've tried to just brush this off and defuse the situation but to no avail.
It appears that there is no respect given to a 73 year old mans simple opinion anymore. The statements made about me are all false; I've been a supporter on T.V. and news print in my area for gun rights several times. I've worked on guns my entire adult life - I love guns.
I've done "contract" work for Charleston WVa police sniper division - homeland defense, desert storm A10 pilots and many other agencies un-named. I've supplied an ex-Vietnam sniper, forensic team leader whose picture with his crew was in J.Edgar Hoovers office till his retirement. I worked contracted for Wayne Novaks 45 Shop for years on special projects.
I am a loyal American and support the second amendment. I'm old fashioned in my views and make no apology for them.
Now, I've taken your remarks and resent them and will post no more on this subject - my views run the same now as then
Now, I wish you all well - I hope you enjoy your sport; I just would like some of you to grow up and respect others opinions without demeaning them personally. I wish you all well.
Harry B."

By my count you were the first with the insults. Educate yourself.
AZ-K9 is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 06:31 AM   #128
imp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2006
Location: Pistol-Vania
Posts: 558
OK..I've read 6 pages of this, and now I would like to add a thing or two.

1) Silencers are legal in many places, whether you like it or not.

2) Criminals are opportunistic in nature. If they want to kill you silently, they will do it with a knife, pillow, homemade silencer, or steal one from a legal owner. Criminals don't care if it is legal or not. Criminals don't care about your opinions either.

3) Silencers can be used for reasons other than hollywood like assassinations. There are plenty of legal reason to utilize one. How great the need for a silencer is, however, is arguable.

4) If you are a sensitive person, don't make unreasonable, un-informed comments that are likely to draw criticism.


Anyway, all that being said, silencers are legal in NC, even though you can't just go get one at wal-mart. And they're jolly good fun too.
imp is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 10:42 AM   #129
AtomicLabRat
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2008
Posts: 1
Here is a picture of Hairy Boner speaking his mind:

AtomicLabRat is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 11:25 AM   #130
Zak Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 12, 1999
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,675
ZeroJunk,

You keep equivocating, changing context, and simply misdirecting to attempt to support your point. You've got no legs to stand on in this argument. You were factually wrong and many people have pointed out. With nothing factual and no good argument fall back on, you found it easier to attack the messengers by saying they called you names or have a vested interest in silencers.

Here are few concrete examples:

Quote:
Anything about disliking silencers making gun owners look bad or demonstating one is "an enemy of shooters and the 2nd Amendment" is preposterous.
No. Saying
Quote:
No legitamate sporting weapon or sportsman ever needs a silencer.
makes one an enemy of shooters and the 2nd Amendment.

Quote:
Comparing hunting licenses and pilot licenses to silencers and machine guns is a stretch to anybody other than the choir.
In fact, I compared a CCW license/permit to the NFA transfer tax because, in NC, both have very similar applicant background requirements, paperwork, LEO approval, cost, and wait time once the application is submitted. Nobody would say "CCW is illegal" under these circumstances; yet you maintain it's perfectly fine to allege that silencers are 100% illegal. This is you grasping at straws to maintain an untenable position once people showed that silencers are in fact not illegal in NC per the partial law you posted.

In short, your and Harry's ignorance of the law and of the prevailing use of suppressors is the problem. You're both getting strong feedback here for good reason. Think of it as a form of peer "correction."

-z
__________________
Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN
My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.
Zak Smith is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 11:35 AM   #131
MOS11C
Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2008
Posts: 19
Quote:
If you ask NC LEO's " Are silencers legal?" with no coaching, the answer will be overwhelmingly "No". If this is inconvenient perhaps some advertising would help since almost everybody is aware that concealed carry permits are obtainable although concealed weapons are still illegal otherwise. Few other than the choir would think the reward/benefit for the trouble involved between getting a CCW permit or a silencer "permit" is a valid comparison.
Silencers are legal for private ownership in the following states: AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KS, KY, LA, ME, MD, MS, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WV, WI, and WY.

KS Governor signed legislation, a few months ago, that will allow Kansas firearm retailers, manufacturers, importers and citizens qualified under the National Firearms Act to sell, manufacture, import and own NFA firearms.

Additionally, they may be owned by Class 3 dealers and Class 2 manufacturers (but not individuals) in: CA, IA, MA, MO, and MI.

Please, any one is welcome to correct my list if I'm wrong.

The smart ones will check with BATF, the States Statutes, State Attorneys office, Silencer forum, Local class 3 dealer or Silencer manufacturer for information on silencers.
The dumb ones....well, we already know where they go.
MOS11C is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 12:54 PM   #132
MisterWilson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2008
Posts: 175
Since when is asking LEO's about the law a good idea?

You could as 100 officers if open carry is legal (in the states it's allowed) and I'd wager that most of them would instinctively reply "no".

A poor arguement, at best.
MisterWilson is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 12:56 PM   #133
ZeroJunk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 14, 2006
Location: Browns Summit NC
Posts: 2,589
Quote:
You're both getting strong feedback here for good reason. Think of it as a form of peer "correction."
LOL, the reason we are getting strong feedback is because you are dragging these one or two posters over here from another forum, or they work for you.

The only reason NC residents have to go through the NFA hurdle is because NC law says specifically that silencers are illegal. Concealed weapons are specifically illegal also with exceptions that most are more familiar with. If the nuance of this is too much for you , I understand.
ZeroJunk is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 01:48 PM   #134
Zak Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 12, 1999
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,675
Quote:
LOL, the reason we are getting strong feedback is because you are dragging these one or two posters over here from another forum, or they work for you.
Again you go off half-cocked with assumptions and incorrect facts. SC-Texas started the thread on AR15.com, not me. The only reason I posted to his thread was to make a correction since he attributed something someone else said to me and I do not like to have things wrongfully attributed to me. I'm not "dragging" anyone over here. Nobody here "works for me", and I don't know how you got that idea. Perhaps you made it up like your interpretation of NC NFA law.

To be clear, ad hominem attacks to the other side do not help your argument. However, if you feel compelled to personally attack me for other reasons, at least get your facts straight and cite them properly.

-z
__________________
Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN
My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.
Zak Smith is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 02:23 PM   #135
VUPDblue
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2005
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 1,981
I'm all for a good arguement every now and then, but I suspect that this has gone on for long enough and has nowhere good left to go....
__________________
Silencers have NEVER been illegal !
VUPDblue is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 03:08 PM   #136
ZeroJunk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 14, 2006
Location: Browns Summit NC
Posts: 2,589
Quote:
I'm all for a good arguement every now and then, but I suspect that this has gone on for long enough and has nowhere good left to go....
I agree. I was a sleeping dog, but Zak couldn't stand it.
And as with all threads, once somebody learns how to spell ad hominem the usefullness is over.


Quote:
North Carolina General Statute ยง 14-288.8 provides that it is unlawful for any person
to manufacture, assemble, possess, store, transport, sell, offer to sell, purchase, offer to
purchase, deliver, give to another, or acquire any weapon of mass death and destruction.
A weapon of mass death and destruction includes:

10. any muffler or silencer for any firearm, whether or not such firearm is
included within this definition; and
I see little room for interpretation. Maybe you could petition the NC General Assembly to have it removed.

Quote:
SC-Texas started the thread on AR15.com, not me. The only reason I posted to his thread was to make a correction since he attributed something someone else said to me and I do not like to have things wrongfully attributed to me.
I see no mention of him or you before your first post.
ZeroJunk is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 03:29 PM   #137
Zak Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 12, 1999
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,675
Quote:
I agree. I was a sleeping dog, but Zak couldn't stand it.
Leveling new allegations doesn't generally count as letting sleeping dogs lie ("you are dragging these one or two posters over here from another forum, or they work for you."). I see no reason to let fallacious arguments or incorrect facts sit without refutation; it gives the appearance of acceptance. Furthermore, aspersions on my actions and character are unwarranted and deserve rebuttal.
-z
__________________
Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN
My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.
Zak Smith is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 03:35 PM   #138
Zak Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 12, 1999
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,675
Quote:
I see no mention of him or you before your first post.
You referred to, "posters .. from another forum", and the AR15 thread is the only one I am aware of which discusses this thread. Furthermore, you alleged that I was "dragging these one or two posters over here from another forum, or they work for you.".
__________________
Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN
My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.
Zak Smith is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 03:39 PM   #139
zoomie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2006
Location: GA
Posts: 1,815
zoomie is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 03:39 PM   #140
ZeroJunk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 14, 2006
Location: Browns Summit NC
Posts: 2,589
I was through with it until your post 120. Now, I'm through with it again. Anybody who wants to use a silencer, have fun.
ZeroJunk is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 03:41 PM   #141
RAnb
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2008
Location: WA, USA
Posts: 447
I work for the government, but I'm not here to help. I heard about this post on another forum, but was not dragged over here. I was wondering if there was a Zumbo clone here and it appears there is. The only gun forums I have been on where people have not insulted others by telling them that their silencers are illegal, immoral or some otherwise unamerican tripe have been subguns and silencertalk forums. If we do not remain united, then we will help those like the Brady bunch anbd the VPC take away our rights.

Ranb
RAnb is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 03:42 PM   #142
MisterWilson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2008
Posts: 175
Quote:
The only reason NC residents have to go through the NFA hurdle is because NC law says specifically that silencers are illegal. Concealed weapons are specifically illegal also with exceptions that most are more familiar with. If the nuance of this is too much for you , I understand.
The NFA is Federal law. Everyone in the country must jump through that.

If I'm not mistaken, Arizona, Texas, and many other states list these items as being illegal but NFA registration as an acceptable defense.

Savvy?
MisterWilson is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 04:07 PM   #143
VUPDblue
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2005
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 1,981
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Carolina Criminal Code
NC 14-288.8
The only persons capable of owning or possessing a weapon of mass death and destruction, as defined above, are the following:

1.Persons exempted from the provisions of carrying a concealed weapon in North Carolina with respect to any activity lawfully engaged in while carrying out their duties;

2.Importers, manufacturers, dealers, and collectors of firearms, ammunition, or destructive devices validly licensed under the laws of the United States or the State of North Carolina, while lawfully engaged in activities authorized under their licenses;
Once again I quote NC statutes. What I am having a hard time working out with you, Zero, is why you don't see this exception in NC law. I understand where you quoted 14-288.8 but just that one part of the definition isn't the whole law. The whole statute says basically 'suppressors are illegal unless they are properly papered'. This is parallel to concealed cary laws which are written the same way. 'Concealed cary is illegal unless you are properly licensed'. In fact, lots of laws are written this way, not just gun laws.
__________________
Silencers have NEVER been illegal !
VUPDblue is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 05:21 PM   #144
ZeroJunk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 14, 2006
Location: Browns Summit NC
Posts: 2,589
Quote:
Once again I quote NC statutes. What I am having a hard time working out with you, Zero, is why you don't see this exception in NC law. I understand where you quoted 14-288.8 but just that one part of the definition isn't the whole law. The whole statute says basically 'suppressors are illegal unless they are properly papered'. This is parallel to concealed cary laws which are written the same way. 'Concealed cary is illegal unless you are properly licensed'. In fact, lots of laws are written this way, not just gun laws.
LOL, the same reason SCOTUS goes 5/4 so often. I don't see why you can't see that if they weren't illegal you wouldn't need an exception.
ZeroJunk is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 05:29 PM   #145
Zak Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 12, 1999
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,675
Quote:
I don't see why you can't see that if they weren't illegal you wouldn't need an exception.
This is ridiculous. It's like reading, "No dogs are allowed in the park unless if leashed." and concluding that dogs are not allowed in the park at all. That is basic reading comprehension fail.

-z
__________________
Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN
My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.
Zak Smith is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 06:49 PM   #146
VUPDblue
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2005
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 1,981
Quote:
I don't see why you can't see that if they weren't illegal you wouldn't need an exception.
I guess it boils down to the nuts and bolts of the definition of illegal. The way I see it, illegal and restricted are very far apart by definition. The way I was schooled, illegal is final and has no exceptions. Restricted, however, has exceptions and is legal as long as those exceptions are abided by. The way I read it in NC law, suppressors are restricted items, not patently illegal.
__________________
Silencers have NEVER been illegal !
VUPDblue is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 07:46 PM   #147
ZeroJunk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 14, 2006
Location: Browns Summit NC
Posts: 2,589
Quote:
It's like reading, "No dogs are allowed in the park unless if leashed." and concluding that dogs are not allowed in the park at all.
You keep wanting to compare this to the little innocuous rules we follow in everyday life because it serves your purpose.
Why not put it in the context it is actually in?



Quote:
1. bombs of all sorts;
2. grenades;
3. rockets having a propellant charge of more than four (4) ounces;
25
4. a missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter
(1/4) ounce;
5. mines;
6. any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell of a type
particularly suitable for sporting purposes) which will expel a projectile using
an explosive, or other propellant, and which has a barrel with a bore of more
than one-half (1/2) inch in diameter;
7. any firearm capable of fully automatic fire;
8. any shotgun with a barrel length less than eighteen (18) inches or an overall
length of less than twenty-six (26) inches;
9. a rifle with a barrel length of less than sixteen (16) inches or an overall length
of less than twenty-six (26) inches;
10. any muffler or silencer for any firearm, whether or not such firearm is
included within this definition; and
11. any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting a
device into any weapon described above, and from which a weapon of mass
death and destruction may readily be assembled.
Thus, a device which could convert a semi-automatic firearm into one capable of full
automatic fire, would be in violation of this statute, whether or not one actually possesses
such a weapon. The possession of the device itself is a crime. If any person possesses a
weapon of mass death and destruction in violation of this statute, he/she would be guilty
of a Class F Felony.
ZeroJunk is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 07:55 PM   #148
Zak Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 12, 1999
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,675
Quote:
You keep wanting to compare this to the little innocuous rules we follow in everyday life because it serves your purpose.
Why not put it in the context it is actually in?
Hysterics aside, that's followed by the provision (the "exception" or "unless") that defines when the preceding law does not apply. That is the context.
__________________
Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN
My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.
Zak Smith is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 08:21 PM   #149
ZeroJunk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 14, 2006
Location: Browns Summit NC
Posts: 2,589
Quote:
that's followed by the provision (the "exception" or "unless") that defines when the preceding law does not apply.

Cool. I think I want a land mine, maybe a real Claymore, and a nice big bomb. Should be a simple matter since they are legal.
I just bet my CLEO is going to let me have either.

Quote:
Hysterics aside
So, it's hysterics now when somebody disagrees with you.
ZeroJunk is offline  
Old July 21, 2008, 08:30 PM   #150
Zak Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 12, 1999
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,675
Quote:
Should be a simple matter since they are legal.
The NC law cedes the decision, in part, to federal law. In this case, the federal requirements for NFA items are relatively straight-forward and no harder to satisfy than a NC CCW permit. It's not that complicated to understand.
__________________
Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN
My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.
Zak Smith is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10416 seconds with 8 queries