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Old July 16, 2008, 06:36 PM   #26
ZeroJunk
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Do I now have to have a "logical reason
No. You don't have to have a logical reason to do anything.

But, most men out of diapers have a logical reason to attack somebody who has a different opinion.
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Old July 16, 2008, 06:53 PM   #27
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I'd like a silencer, but for me it's just not worth the legal hassle... While I see folks get all hot and bothered about silencers on firearms, I note they don't seem to have any qualms about the natural silence of my bow and arrow.


I do wonder,however, about the noise levels ie. how silent does a round have to be to be illegal? I know of some very potent air guns and arrows and certain subsonic loads - so when does the 'silence' become illegal?
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Old July 16, 2008, 07:01 PM   #28
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I do wonder,however, about the noise levels ie. how silent does a round have to be to be illegal? I know of some very potent air guns and arrows and certain subsonic loads - so when does the 'silence' become illegal
When you have a device which diminishes the report of a firearm. Air guns are not firearms. Arrows are not firearms. Simply shooting low power loads do not comprise a "device".
Quote:
"The terms `firearm silencer' and `firearm muffler' mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication."
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Old July 16, 2008, 07:49 PM   #29
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I didn't think they were legal anywhere. I suspect that is what Harry was thinking also.

If you have a logical reason for their use other than covering a crime, such as ear protection or not aggravating the neighbors, fine. But, attacking Harry who probably knows more about firearms than most any ten of us shows your intelligence.
Umm...Yeah...About that.

Obviously Harry-who-probably-knows-more-about-firearms DOESN'T know that while restricted, they are indeed legal in the majority of the US.

Check it out, in 1934 the infringing NFA (National Firearms act) was passed, restricting certain types of guns & accessories to a $200 tax and relatively strict scrutiny. This basically put a damper on machineguns, short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, and silencers as $200 was a great deal of money at the time. Fast forward 50+ years and it's not so much.

Later, in 1986, another infringement was passed restricting the manufacture of new machineguns. Silencers on the other hand, remained legal under federal law. However, a few states have restricted NFA guns & devices but the tide is turning as a few states are actually striking down their state laws and allowing toys such as these.


But law aside, what in the name of Sam Hill is wrong with you folks demanding "logical reasons" & what not? What a downright European thing to say. You ought to be ashamed.
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Old July 16, 2008, 07:57 PM   #30
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Obviously Harry-who-probably-knows-more-about-firearms DOESN'T know that while restricted, they are indeed legal in the majority of the US.
I am pleased to hear that. Can you cite your source of information. It would be interesting to know for future reference. Thank you.
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Old July 16, 2008, 07:59 PM   #31
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I am pleased to hear that. Can you cite your source of information. It would be interesting to know for future reference. Thank you.
You can google for a variety of queries including "silencers legal in states" and "nfa faq" to find the information.
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Old July 16, 2008, 08:00 PM   #32
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But, most men out of diapers have a logical reason to attack somebody who has a different opinion.
It's not a different opinion that they're attacking.

You know how you hear the stories about people out at dinner (or where ever) that are open carrying, then some weenie calls the police on them because, *gasp*, they have a gun!?

You know that feeling how on one hand you'd like to educate the weenies and teach them the error of their ways, but on the other hand you just want to slap them mercilessly until they grow a set and stop acting like...well...weenies?


Well with those people we can rationalize, "They're just ignorant weenies, not worth our time or rise in blood pressure."

What are we supposed to think & say to our own, the pro gun people?
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Old July 16, 2008, 08:01 PM   #33
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Mister Wilson, I could not care less about silencers one way or the other. Harry doesn't think much of them so you attack with your little adolescent cartoon, I suppose because you could not think of any words at the time. If your last response has been your first less the typical smart a$$ first and last paragraph I would have had nothing to say on the subject

Excuse me, next to last.
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Old July 16, 2008, 08:02 PM   #34
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I suggest wandering on over to www.silencertalk.com.

The administrator responsible for registering accounts can sometimes take his sweet time but there's no better hive of information, save maybe ar15.com, in the armory sub-forum.

eta: http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=6&f=20
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Old July 16, 2008, 08:18 PM   #35
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Zak, the first site I googled which was Gemtech showed NC as being a legal state which they obviously are not as I posted the law. So, anybody should double check with whatever authorities.
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Old July 16, 2008, 08:21 PM   #36
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Wow, after reading this thread, it makes me wonder if the majority of the membership here knows that the NFA section of this site even exists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak Smith about Harry Bonar
You are factually incorrect and an enemy of shooters and the 2nd Amendment. That is all
I couldn't agree more. Like Zumbo, why on Earth would one shooter try to make life harder for another shooter simply because he doesn't agree with the second shooter's interests? I swear, we can be our own worst enemy sometimes...

Mr. Bonar, I am genuinely interested in learning why you feel the way you do about this subject. You can PM me if you like, but I'd really like to pick your brain...
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Old July 16, 2008, 08:23 PM   #37
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My apologies to all. I just take great offense when I hear the words & phrases of the Brady bunch being parroted by "pro-gun" folks.
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Old July 16, 2008, 08:23 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by zerojunk
Zak, the first site I googled which was Gemtech showed NC as being a legal state which they obviously are not as I posted the law. So, anybody should double check with whatever authorities.
Go to a site like NC.gov and look up that law yourself. Be sure to read the opening paragraphs of the criminal code that holds that law. You may find some kind of exemption listed for properly registered items. FOUND IT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Carolina Criminal Code
NC 14-288.8
The only persons capable of owning or possessing a weapon of mass death and destruction, as defined above, are the following:

1.Persons exempted from the provisions of carrying a concealed weapon in North Carolina with respect to any activity lawfully engaged in while carrying out their duties;

2.Importers, manufacturers, dealers, and collectors of firearms, ammunition, or destructive devices validly licensed under the laws of the United States or the State of North Carolina, while lawfully engaged in activities authorized under their licenses;
The part in red is the important part that authorizes posession. It should be noted, however, that the only acceptable answer on the Form1 or 4 for the reason you need to posess the weapon is "research and development", whether or not you intend to research or develop anything...
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Old July 16, 2008, 08:26 PM   #39
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Go to a site like NC.gov and look up that law yourself. Be sure to read the opening paragraphs of the criminal code that holds that law. You may find some kind of exemption listed for properly registered items.
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I did. It's in my first post.

Quote:
Importers, manufacturers, dealers, and collectors of firearms, ammunition, or destructive devices validly licensed under the laws of the United States or the State of North Carolina, while lawfully engaged in activities authorized under their licenses;

I saw that. But, for all practical purposes they are illegal for most or at best you are at the mercy of the officer, prosecutor, and judge.
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Old July 16, 2008, 08:34 PM   #40
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Zerojunk,
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Zak, the first site I googled which was Gemtech showed NC as being a legal state which they obviously are not as I posted the law. So, anybody should double check with whatever authorities.
Quote:
Illegal in NC period.
You're wrong about NC. I know several people who possess legal suppressors in NC.
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Old July 16, 2008, 08:34 PM   #41
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Yes, I see that, I just meant for you to look a bit harder for the exemption that I knew existed...
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Old July 16, 2008, 08:44 PM   #42
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You're wrong about NC.
Not for the average shooter.
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Old July 16, 2008, 08:45 PM   #43
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I am pleased to hear that. Can you cite your source of information. It would be interesting to know for future reference. Thank you.
http://www.advanced-armament.com/ownership.asp

http://www.srtarms.com/legalities.htm

http://www.johnsguns.us/legal.htm

etc.

Using a suppressor on a gun:

1. Makes the gun much quieter and you will bother those around you less. If everyone used a can we would not have noise complaints from those who live near rifle and pistol ranges. Also the person in the next lane at the range is not subject to any muzzle blast so it is just more pleasant.

2. Many improve the ability of the gun to group well. The suppressor on this gun cut the group size by about 1/3 -- it was already a very accurate and precise gun.



3. Teaching new shooters is easier as the silencers reduce the muzzle blast and recoil and make the gun less intimidating.

4. They make shooting more enjoyable even for those of us that have done it for many years.
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Old July 16, 2008, 08:54 PM   #44
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I see. If I fill out a form, have my picture taken, get the signature of the high sheriff, send $200 etc. I can use a silencer. Oh boy, can't wait.
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Old July 16, 2008, 08:55 PM   #45
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I trust you Zak. I'll order a couple tomorrow and take them to the range next week. And, if anybody asks I'll tell them Zak said it was OK.
If you want a legal opinion, write a check to your lawyer. However, it's easy to find references to online sources stating that suppressors are legal in NC, and it's also not hard to find NC shooters who have them. Like I said, several of my friends in NC have them.
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Old July 16, 2008, 08:57 PM   #46
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I see. If I fill out a form, have my picture taken, get the signature of the high sheriff, send $200 etc. I can use a silencer. Oh boy, can't wait.
Dude, you're tilting at windmills here, with no tenable position and no point that is possibly defensible.
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Old July 16, 2008, 08:59 PM   #47
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I see. If I fill out a form, have my picture taken, get the signature of the high sheriff, send $200 etc. I can use a silencer. Oh boy, can't wait.

Or you could drop $20 on Quicken's Willmaker program, draw up a revocable living trust, and put the silencer in it's name, and skip the fingerprinting, photographing, & begging permission of another authority figure.

A trust is mentioned in the NFA (along with corporations) as being legally able to own NFA toys. As the trustee of the trust, I'm allowed to possess my trust's assets.

That's how I have this:



But you probably wouldn't want something like that, I mean, what would be the purpose...
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Old July 16, 2008, 09:01 PM   #48
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Dude, you're tilting at windmills here, with no tenable position and no point that is possibly defensible.

You don't think so. It's the same as saying fully automatic machine guns are legal. The same hurdles apparently have to be jumped in NC. From my point of view you are the one splitting hairs.
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Old July 16, 2008, 09:03 PM   #49
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Not for the average shooter.
You are unfortunately right -- most average shooters do not know about suppressors and the fact that they are legal in most states. Most average shooters also do not know about the benefits of silencers just like most average shooters do not put very many rounds down range annually.

Skilled and educated shooters on the other hand ....

http://www.silencerresearch.com/silencer_faq.htm

Tac Sol with silencer. VQ sear so 1.5 lb trigger pull, under 24 oz with the can mounted.

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Old July 16, 2008, 09:05 PM   #50
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The same hurdles apparently have to be jumped in NC. From my point of view you are the one splitting hairs.
You might as well say that concealed carry is illegal in every state and oppose talking about it on forums because it makes gun owners look bad. Neither is true.
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