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Old June 30, 2005, 09:12 PM   #1
SimonVallore
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How do people turn these ak's full auto

how are poeple turning ak's full autyo i heard they file down the sear pin is this true and is there a way they do it that it wont just empty the gun
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Old June 30, 2005, 09:15 PM   #2
locked'n'cocked
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yea can be done that way and is really illegal. i doubt you will get anybody to go into detail on how to do such an illegal thing on this website.
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Old June 30, 2005, 09:33 PM   #3
4V50 Gary
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Also dangerous to file down any parts. Why you ask? Because you can have a premature ignition before the action is locked up. That means damage or destruction of the firearm and injury to the user. Full auto guns have some "trip" device that allows the hammer to fall after the bolt is locked up. To have the hammer follow without any delay is inviting injury. Don't do it and take it to a licensed mfg, pay the $200 tax stamp and have it done legally.
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Old June 30, 2005, 09:51 PM   #4
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just curious ive talked to people but didnt know if it was true
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Old July 1, 2005, 12:29 AM   #5
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It is really hard to do it properly on guns that fire from the closed bolt without having a proper full auto trigger kit. (Open bolt is another story) Some guns are rather easy to do, but the big risk is the hammer droping before the bolt has locked. Looking at the SKS trigger group I figure it would be easy to make it full auto. (Don't we all at least THINK how to do this stuff. ) The hard part would be doing it correctly. Do it wrong and that hammer is falling before the bolt has locked. IMHO full auto in rifles is overrated. (But darn cool ) Even if I did try and convert one, I wouldn't shoot it without being behind a barrier with a string on the trigger.

In short, yes it can be done. It is very risky and you stand a good chance of getting the nickname "lefty". Not to mention a free visit to gestapo headquarters.
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Old July 2, 2005, 05:13 PM   #6
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4v50 gary..... I may be wrong but I don't think he can go get his AK converted legally to full auto if he is just a civilian. Its been 19 years since they stopped transfering and/or creating them for us but I guess if He was a LEO or something he could get it done.

Well maybe he could also pay up the butt for a registered full auto sear... if they exist for AKs... I know they're around for HKs.... hmmm... too bad I'm not rich and can't afford such luxories.....

And SimonVallore.... dude... you don't wanna have anything at all that could be construed as full auto if it aint 110% legal. For about $3500 you can buy yourself a legal full auto Mac... don't know how great it would be... but I think thats about the beginning price for legal full autos these days. And up and up and up from there.

Unless you're Ted Kennedy who has no respect for laws that he fights for you'll undoubtedly end up in the pokey for possessing something "homemade" like that.
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Old July 2, 2005, 09:16 PM   #7
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Full Auto

The thought of an AK or other rifle being full auto is invigorating until we consider the penalty of owning such illegally. Its not worth it!

They are quite expensive to feed if you like to hear them rock and roll, you cannot go to the range to fire them, if someone hears automatic weapon fire they are likely to call the law enforcement who work fairly closely with the ATF who will eat you alive and after you pay the fines and get out of jail, will never be able to own any firearm or ammo.

If you have to have a full auto weapon, if you play, you gotta pay, the cheapest in the long run is buying a legal
SMG and doing the paperwork.

After dark in the Penintentiary in a tiny cell with an Ape would not be worth a full auto AK-47
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Old July 2, 2005, 09:34 PM   #8
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Just having one converted has not been legal since 1986, since the law passed at that time closed the machinegun registry, meaning no new machineguns can be registered to individuals since that time, only to Class 3 dealers/manufacturers and LE agencies. Guns previously owned are legal to transfer, but the fixed number of transferrable guns has caused prices to skyrocket.

Besides, conversion is not that easy with the AK. You need a new bolt carrier, a trip lever, a new safety lever, and an auto sear. The conversion can be, and has been, done, but it is not just a matter of filing something or dropping in a "lightning link" of some kind.

So, how do "they" do it. Well, "they" mostly don't; the AK that "is easily converted to a machinegun" is anti gun propaganda, put out by the people who want to ban semi-autos and want to convince the public that all semi-autos are machineguns, and all owners are terrorists.

What about movies? More and more, movie guns aren't even real and don't fire anything, even blanks. The actor pretends to fire a dummy gun and the boys in the back room add the flash and noise to the digital master. (And no, those light sabers in Star Wars aren't really there, either; on the set, the actors are seen waving handgrips at each other.)

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Old July 3, 2005, 12:39 AM   #9
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How can these guys sell these legally? I didn't see a legal disclaimer anywhere saying it's not legal to do these conversions. J/W
Can find a lot of parts here as well.
http://www.firingpin.com/fullauto3.htm
http://www.butokukai.com/product13.html
http://www.ftfindustries.com/new_page_1.htm
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Old July 3, 2005, 01:33 AM   #10
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wow turbo. they sure make it sound "legal."

I'm guessing the reason they can sell those legally is because we live in a "free" society where people are still held accountable for their actions. Whether or not some website is selling a "How to" manual on how to convert a weapon to full-atuo illegally, that information could be obtained with or without some website sellin it. So it comes down to whether anyone is stupid enough to do so.

Criminals already carry guns anyway... a fair amount probably also carry full-autos they ghettoly converted or bought (illegally) that way. So I guess its not all that unreasonable to figure you and I can at least be privy to the information to do so. And the fact is through trial and error I'm sure someone could figure out how to do it on their own anyway. Baring an inferior mental capacity.
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Old July 3, 2005, 08:46 AM   #11
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Quote:
How can these guys sell these legally? I didn't see a legal disclaimer anywhere saying it's not legal to do these conversions. J/W
Can find a lot of parts here as well.
The manuals and directions on how to convert are covered under the first amendment. Full auto parts (NOT conversion parts - be sure you understand the difference) are legal for use as replacement parts in registered full autos. However, the act of converting a semi-auto to full auto is still illegal, and in some cases even mere possession of the semiauto firearm in conjunction with some full auto parts (even when not actually installed in the semi) is also illegal.
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Old July 3, 2005, 09:15 AM   #12
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I'll also point out that you don't know who's selling you those manuals. You could very well be buying manuals to convert your AK to full auto from an ATF sting operation.

In addition you'll have to live in fear of being caught for the rest of your life until you dispose of the illegal machine gun. Even if you keep it tucked away in your house and never use it you could SOL if there's ever a fire and the investigators stumble upon your machine gun. If you hide it a vehicle, you could end up in a accident someday.
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Old July 3, 2005, 10:41 AM   #13
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It requires one to physically modify the AK reciever, in order to convert to "full auto" (*). That is why the parts are easily available. Simply having the parts is not considered a violation by the BATF.

Now, parts for the AR-15 for full-auto are more restricted. Why? Because they are a simple-drop in part requiring no modification to the firearm. Simply having a legal semiautomatic AR-15, and the conversion kit under the same roof has been successfully tried as posession of an unlawful/unregistered machine gun.

If you want a very close-proximation of full auto fire from an AK, just learn how to bump fire. Perfectly legal, and relatively safe.




(*) There are some cheap "hacks", which I won't discuss, nor should anyone else. But it only allows uncontrolled fire, and can cause serious damage, both to the firearm/user from out-of-battery firings. Not to mention highly illegal as well.
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Old July 3, 2005, 10:44 AM   #14
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I have flipped through a couple of those type "manuals" at gunshows, and they almost always have a disclaimer in them "FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY" .

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Old July 3, 2005, 01:57 PM   #15
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They could easily say those books are for Class 2 SOTs who can legally manufacture MGs for sale to LE/military/govt. As long as those books have a legitimate reason to exist I don't think the ATF really cares about regulating them.
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Old July 3, 2005, 05:20 PM   #16
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hey simon, I feel for you ...

I have ideas to on how to make weapons fully automatic but with the laws and hassle of not being able to use a weapon that is fullauto around people just gives me incinticve to practice pulling that trigger as fast as you can. P.S. you might want to buy a 22lr rifle and practice making it full auto. that is what I am going to do one of these days. after I know that I can do it I will just put it back to factory and just know that I can.
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Old July 3, 2005, 05:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
P.S. you might want to buy a 22lr rifle and practice making it full auto. that is what I am going to do one of these days. after I know that I can do it I will just put it back to factory and just know that I can.
A little hint: If you're planning to knowingly break the law, don't post your intentions to do so on the Internet.
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Old July 3, 2005, 07:05 PM   #18
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Keep all your guns legal. You will sleep better at night.


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Old July 4, 2005, 03:24 PM   #19
BUSTER51
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Unless you think you might enjoy prison sex ,you may want to rethink the whole thing.now the good news it is a fedral crime so you get to go to a fedral pen ,and they have the best food and medical care.
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Old July 4, 2005, 08:11 PM   #20
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There's a huge market of people just bringing the receivers from Iraq and dropping them into legal AKs.
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Old July 5, 2005, 08:18 AM   #21
4V50 Gary
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Bringing in receivers or other parts? I thought the internal rails on civilian AKs were different from the military counterparts.
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Old July 5, 2005, 12:40 PM   #22
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When I find out that I've been associating with someone with ties to criminals, I drop any contact with them, so I didn't press for details. The gist of it is that bringing the whole AK is too much risk and trouble when all that matters is the receiver. Drop it into a civvie, or build it up with a parts kit, something like that. Probably a good thing that I don't know the exact details, but I'm not in any hurry to run to the ATF to tell them what I know either.
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Old July 5, 2005, 12:49 PM   #23
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Please tell the other BATFE agents 'hi' from me, would you?




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Old July 5, 2005, 05:14 PM   #24
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Wow that would be really stupid to risk your military career for an AK 47
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Old July 5, 2005, 05:14 PM   #25
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In some cases, the part or combination of parts alone is legally a machinegun and possession of unregistered parts is illegal, whether or not the person possessing the part or parts has a gun on which they can be installed.

For example, a carbine "M2 kit" is a machinegun of and by itself, and illegal to possess without registration, even if the owner does not have access to an M1 carbine on which to install it.

The ads mentioned are not for sales of machineguns, they are for sales of books. Buying or selling books is not illegal, but doing what they tell you to do is. Some ads even sell parts that they say are "legal to possess". True, in some cases, but if you put those parts in a gun, you are violating the law. The ads are deliberately deceptive, sort of like the guy on the corner telling you that the white stuff is just for pleasure.

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