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Old November 12, 2017, 10:57 AM   #1
sixgunnin
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What went wrong?

This morning I awoke to a coyote trotting around the house. Grabbed a 12 ga with a couple loads of 3'' steel T's, slid open a window and fired both rounds at 30 yards.

I was able to track it in sparse snow for about 300 yards before losing it. I figure I may have hit it a bit far back. What do you guys think?
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Old November 12, 2017, 11:25 AM   #2
Mr. Hill
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If you didn't see blood, you completely missed. That's my guess.
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Old November 12, 2017, 11:26 AM   #3
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May have hit a bit back, but totes can carry some lead too.
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Old November 12, 2017, 11:28 AM   #4
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Is that legal in Montana? Around here you may not shoot from an occupied dwelling.

Next I ask are you sure it was 30 yards? TShot should have dropped it in it's tracks, assuming a full choke or better.
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Old November 12, 2017, 11:38 AM   #5
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Obviously a miss, either total, or hits in the wrong part of the body.
That's easy.

What now easy is to guess why. None of us were there to see, so you just have to re-think it and try to figure out what happened. Most times it's stopping the lead and shooting too far back
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Old November 12, 2017, 12:16 PM   #6
sixgunnin
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I didn't miss entirely as he flipped when I shot him the first time and took off when I shot again. There was only blood for the about the first 50 yards or so
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Old November 12, 2017, 01:00 PM   #7
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Sounds like a marginal hit with the wrong shot. 'T' shot is .20" diameter with 36 of 'em(depending on the brand) to an ounce and isn't big enough. 'T' shot is for geese, not Wiley.
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Old November 12, 2017, 01:15 PM   #8
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my guess is,,, it is going somewhere,,,after you stopped chasing it,,,,lay down and never get up

i bet those T shot went right through it(steel has a way of doing that),,,you found blood for the first 50yrds or so,,,bleeding internally,,,when it lays down it will more than likely bleed out and expire

my .02

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Old November 12, 2017, 02:20 PM   #9
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I've shot several coyotes with heavy loads of #2 or #4 shot (before the state outlawed #2 for turkey hunting). Regardless, I NEVER killed a coyote outright with either size shot even though the animals for solidly hit.
For instance, I shot a coyote that passed by during a turkey hunt, hitting it well within the "dead turkey zone" 30-35 yards. We watched in amazement as the yotie ran off but about 200 yards away, Mr. Yotie started to wobble and then toppled over.
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Old November 12, 2017, 04:13 PM   #10
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so much for a clean humane kill
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Old November 12, 2017, 04:23 PM   #11
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I'd bet the 'yote was more than 30 yards off. I have killed quite a few 'yotes during turkey season using turkey loads....all of them were within 25 yards. Anything farther out than that, either rolled and got up and/or bit at their side like they had been stung by bees and ran off never to be seen again.
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Old November 12, 2017, 11:42 PM   #12
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T-shot,

Since we're all guessing, mine is that your improvised shooting position from the window goobered up your cheek weld/gun mount, and you either shot high or low, fringing the critter. Who knows. An odd shooting position can mess up hit probability, even with a shotgun.

While a humane kill is a desired objective in a hunt, I do not see this circumstance in the same light as a game animal and fair chase. That 'yote was not there for a cup of coffee and share your morning paper. He was there for your wife's poodle, your daughters cat, your chicken house, etc. I nearly lost a full grown lab, 90-100 lb male, to a 'yote pack. My vet bill to stitch him up was nearly $500 bucks. Happened across the lane from my house in the dark, not 100 yds away. A single 'yote howled, he left the yard after it, and the pack was waiting. No sympathy for a maurading coyote, and any law that does not let me deal with it on my place, from my bedroom window or other, is a bad one.

Regards T-shot. There was a comment that coyote needed bigger pellets. T-shot is plenty for coyotes at 30 yds, even with steel. The OP mentions a 3" load of steel Tshot. T-shot steel comes 52 +/- pellets to the oz. Not 36. A standard 3" load of Tshot steel will be 1-1/4 oz. That's 60+ pellets of the stuff. And to put .20" dia in perspective, that is bigger (and heavier) than a steel BB your Red Ryder used to shoot. Traveling what........1200-1300+ fps at the muzzle? No way Wiley T. is gonna survive a load of that, centered at 30 yds from a suitably choked gun. We don't know the choke of the gun, (OP may have used his stubby HD gun) and the distance of the shot in question is up for debate, but you do not need larger buck shot to kill coyotes at shotgun distances.

In fact, my own experience with large buck, (OO buck is what I have shot the most) is that much beyond 40 yds, the patterns thin to the degree that getting sufficient number of hits on a deer, or even an IDPA torso type target, much less a target as small and spindly as a 'yote, is a role of the dice. Even #4 buck, (.24 dia, and 27 pellets to a 1-1/4 oz load) is pretty thin past 35 yds, especially if the choke is on the open side and with a simple bead sight.
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Old November 13, 2017, 09:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaranger View Post

While a humane kill is a desired objective in a hunt, I do not see this circumstance in the same light as a game animal and fair chase. That 'yote was not there for a cup of coffee and share your morning paper. He was there for your wife's poodle, your daughters cat, your chicken house, etc. I nearly lost a full grown lab, 90-100 lb male, to a 'yote pack. My vet bill to stitch him up was nearly $500 bucks. Happened across the lane from my house in the dark, not 100 yds away. A single 'yote howled, he left the yard after it, and the pack was waiting. No sympathy for a maurading coyote, and any law that does not let me deal with it on my place, from my bedroom window or other, is a bad one.
IMHO, all of God's creatures deserves a quick and humane death....even 'yotes. Coyotes are not the the evil creatures of the night than folks make them out to be. They, like any other predator, are just doing what comes natural to them and what they need to do to survive. Bald eagles will hunt and kill your wife's poodle too....should we gut shoot them and let them fly off to suffer a long and painful death just because the good Lord made them a predator? Anyone that allows their pets to roam freely/chase coyotes is just as much at fault as any coyote, when the pet comes back injured(if it comes back at all). Anyone that enjoys the fact that any animal is going to suffer a long and painful death is not right in the head.
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Old November 13, 2017, 10:12 AM   #14
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Agreed

Any animal deserves to be put down quickly and humanely.

I once watched a Coyote stalk and eat a rabbit from my bedroom window one morning early. Would not dream of shooting in my subdivision, heck it was in Kalifornia, I'd probably still be in jail.

Pretty amazing watching that yote stalk and kill the rabbit. One pounce, rabbit in jaws, down the hatch. Yes entire rabbit in one "gulp" he tipped his head back and down it went. Bet the rabbit was still kicking in his belly.
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Old November 13, 2017, 10:04 PM   #15
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You probably would have seen success using 0-0 buck verses steel T shot. One thing is certain the yote won't die of lead poising. Few days to heal those entrance wounds. He'll be as good as new.
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Old November 15, 2017, 03:54 PM   #16
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personal

We went pretty quickly from my comment regards what I thought of a state law in Montanna and a non game animal here in AL, to accusations on my beliefs, morals, willingness to violate the Bald Eagle Protection Act, and being an irresponsible dog owner.

Done on this one.
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Old November 16, 2017, 09:11 PM   #17
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I have a friend who shoots them from aircraft. He swears by 3" T shot. The "heavi-shot" dead coyote loads might be better, but he uses steel.

I have killed them with 12 & 20ga #7 1/2 shot at 10 yards. Didn't shoot through them, but loaded their lungs with lead sure enough. I dont remember if I shot them again, but we did it several times.

If I had to guess, I'd have to say the hits must've been marginal. 3" #4 buck gives 41 pellets to the shell, but you gotta pattern buck from various chokes, as it is not always true that "fuller patterns tighter" like it is with bird shot. "00" buck often patterns better from cylinder bore yhan a full choke, for instance.
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Old November 16, 2017, 09:28 PM   #18
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...and FWIW, I think it is perfectly legal in Montana, to shoot from your occupied dwelling.

As regards night hunting, i.e. spotlighting in the Big Sky, it is only legal for "a landowner or his/her agent. Weapons allowed are shotguns, with shot no larger than #6, or a club."

Still, in defense of your property (dogs, cats chickens, etc.), I am not sure the weapon restriction applies, as you weren't actually spotlighting/predator hunting.

I am not a lawyer, I could be dead wrong. Be sure to consult FWP or your own attorney before spotlighting. The above information was given to me by Montana fwp,, but that was 20 something years ago.
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Old November 17, 2017, 12:39 AM   #19
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You're probably in a better position to answer the question than anyone else.

Put up a big sheet of cardboard or paper and take a few shots at it using the same shotgun/load at the distance in question and see what the patterns look like.
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Old November 17, 2017, 07:55 AM   #20
Mobuck
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"Coyotes are not the the evil creatures of the night than folks make them out to be. "

Do you have livestock???
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Old November 17, 2017, 07:58 AM   #21
eastbank
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around here we have the three S,s for yotes, shoot-shevel-shut up. here they have been seen eating a fawn as its being born and the mother to. no pity, we trap-shoot- snare them when we can. eastbank.
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Old November 17, 2017, 08:29 AM   #22
buck460XVR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobuck View Post
"Coyotes are not the the evil creatures of the night than folks make them out to be. "

Do you have livestock???
Not anymore. Back when I did, we had more problems with stray/neighbors dogs running loose than coyotes killing/damaging livestock. Still, we realized there was the risk from coyotes and did whatever we could to minimize the risk.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eastbank View Post
around here we have the three S,s for yotes, shoot-shevel-shut up. here they have been seen eating a fawn as its being born and the mother to. no pity, we trap-shoot- snare them when we can. eastbank.
So why would you have to SSS for coyotes? Are you doing something illegal? SSS is the poacher's motto, because they bury their victims to hide the evidence and they keep their mouths shut to prevent the loose lips that sink ships. If everything you are doing is legal, no reason to be afraid to talk about it.

I have no problem with folks hunting/trapping coyotes, As I said, I do it myself. The problem I have is when folks claim it doesn't matter if they crawl off and suffer because they themselves cause so much suffering. That is a human emotion of retaliation, thinking that coyotes are being cruel on purpose, while as stated before, they are only doing what come natural, like any other predator. I watch the neighbor's cat indiscriminately kill birds at my bird feeder, and eat the heads off live baby rabbits in my backyard. Should I hang him up by his guts from the clothesline to make him suffer like his prey? Ever see that online video of the Bald Eagle drowning the whitetail fawn as it swims behind it's mother? In the background you can hear the fawn bleating under water as it takes it last attempts at breathing. The Eagle then drags the fawn onto dry land ad proceeds to eat it. It that cruel and mean and need to be punished by making Eagles and other mean and evil birds of prey suffer? No. Like most other animals in the wild kingdom anymore, 'yotes need to be controlled by hunting. This is to keep their numbers in check and to keep their fear of humans intact. We should still tho, take the same effort to kill them humanely as we do when we hunt anything else. Make valid attempts to kill them cleanly, and do it safely and legally. All I am saying. Anything else makes one a slob hunter. Allowing one's dog to run loose or to sic them purposely on a pack of 'yotes, is being a irresponsible dog owner and asking for a dead/injured dog.
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Old November 17, 2017, 09:56 AM   #23
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I live in the middle of a deep woods and have killed 5 in the yard within the last 6-7 years. Plus many affield.
Have surely seen their destruction first hand in both wildlife...and particularly with livestock.
While I have always tried the best I can to kill any animal as humanely as possible, if I see a yote wherever, don't care if I have nothing but a slingshot on hand, you can bet that just as sure as God made little green apples, there is incoming in that yotes near future.

In response to a previous post referring to 'Gods creations'...here's a couple other thoughts along those lines.
First, he also created man, putting man as the rulers and 'steward' of all other beasts. 'Steward' means man keeping the population of all other predators (including coyotes) in check so the existence on His number one creation, 'man' can survive. To those familiar with the yote explosion over the years due to less trapping and the increasing destruction of the yote, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that 'man' has failed miserably in his responsibilities to keep the population of the yote down.

Second, when all this was created, obviously man was not equipped with weaponry of today and killing these predators with spears, crude traps, pits with the bottoms laced with sharpened sticks...or whatever means they had, was the way it was done. And we can be assured that the death of the animals was most likely not near as humanely as it is today.

Like most rural areas, especially areas having livestock, around these parts yotes are a real problem that is not slowing down in the least.
And I for one would challenge anyone with a different mindset.

Also, yotes are getting to be an issue in many suburban areas as well. There have been many recent reports of incidents between people walking their dogs and yotes in neighborhoods.

Lastly, it's common knowledge that purely hunting yotes will not keep their population down. And with very few trapping, the problem is not only going to continue, but at yotes yearly multiplying rate, will do nothing but increase.
Given those facts...again, I will try as best I can to kill a yote humanely. But whatever means I have at the time to kill one is what I'll use.

As far as what went wrong with the OP's shot?
I think JohnKSa has the right answer.
You need to pattern your shotgun knowing the distant your shot pattern starts breaking up badly causing a less than effective kill.

Last edited by shortwave; November 17, 2017 at 10:06 AM.
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Old November 17, 2017, 11:08 AM   #24
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Quote:
Put up a big sheet of cardboard or paper and take a few shots at it using the same shotgun/load at the distance in question and see what the patterns look like.
Trying to keep this train on the track, the above is the correct answer.

Next time, shoot him in the head and salvage the pelt.
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