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Old July 4, 2006, 01:14 AM   #1
Love&Hate12
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Central Axis Relock

I feel that this tehcnique is a very very effective one but only on some instances, such as accurate quick draw point shooting. With this technique I can get accurate tap groups at speeds faster than I can in the standard position.

I think one good idea is to just take the stance and mix it into your shooting technique and use it only when needed, spice it up a bit because it is a very effective technique at near ranges.

A good move would be draw, hip shot and then take out the other target with the CAR technique, this is capable of being done in under 2 seconds with an experienced shooter.

Good technique for special forces especially. Our guys should know it when they are doing some dangerous operations, Paul Castle found a winner in certain instances.
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Old July 6, 2006, 12:41 PM   #2
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question

I have to apologize for my ignorance, but this is a technique that I am not familiar with, or am not familiar with the name.

Could you provide a link, or a description? Sorry for the bother.....

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Old July 6, 2006, 01:43 PM   #3
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http://www.sabretactical.com/lefthandedtraining.PDF#search='Central%20Axis%20Relock'

Try the above link.
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Old July 6, 2006, 03:11 PM   #4
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Better yet, try this one for videos:

http://www.sabretactical.com/CAR/car.html
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Old July 6, 2006, 04:17 PM   #5
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It's not uncommon that people are unfamiliar with the system - the training is exclusive (at least at this point in time) to LE and military. Sucks if you don't have a way in, but those are the breaks.
The reason is that there's a LOT more in the training than just the shooting stance - there's a lot of LE/Military specific training and TTP's that just doesn't make sense to make available to the general public.

It's not really a defensive system, which is another thing that turns many civilians away from it, even though the stances are quite useful for both stability and recoil management. Shooting from the 'extended' might not work out so well if you're already behind the reactionary curve - then again you have to remember that the system was designed for Operators; i.e. people who are going to be moving around with their weapons at the ready.

Another instance where the C.A.R. system works extremely well is inside a vehicle.

However, like I said, there is much more to the system than can be understood by reading sabretactical's website. Love&Hate12: have you trained with Castle? If so I'd be interested to discuss your opinions on other aspects of the training material.

If you have specific questions or conversation points I would be more than happy to answer them. I am a certified C.A.R. Instructor and am a big believer in what the system can do for a person's shooting platform.

It's an excellent addition of the overall self-defense puzzle, and I certainly do hope that certain aspects of the training are opened to the public at some point.
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Old July 6, 2006, 04:34 PM   #6
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No offence but thats stupid looking.
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Old July 6, 2006, 05:36 PM   #7
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What's stupid looking?

Unquantified statements don't really further the conversation.
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Old July 6, 2006, 08:15 PM   #8
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The way that he's holding the gun, it looks like its going to recoil and hit him in the face or some thing.
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Old July 6, 2006, 11:53 PM   #9
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That's a common thought. However, I can assure you that I've never seen anyone get popped in the face with their slide.

The front-sight is placed at about reading distance, which leaves more than enough room for the slide to cycle.

There are two reasons for the strange position:
  1. It basically takes eye dominance out of the equation
  2. It places the hands and arms in a natural state, which is to protect the head and body
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Old July 7, 2006, 01:02 AM   #10
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I haven't trained with Castle but I was shown the technique by a person who did train with Castle and I was also given a manual. I don't know any of the finer points and extensive stuff you were talking about but I did incorporate the general C.A.R. technique into my quick draw drills and it has just worked excellent for me, I try to keep my handgun training with a variety of things.

I would like to know more about the "extensive" types of C.A.R. techniques sometime.
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Old July 7, 2006, 03:55 PM   #11
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If I read that correctly, I think you misinterpreted. When I mentioned shooting from the "extended" position, that is - in the C.A.R. system - the position where the gun is in front of your eyes and basically "at the ready"...

I was trying to agree with you that going straight for the extended-position in a CCW/SD sitiuation might not work out as well as some other techniques.
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Old July 8, 2006, 12:34 AM   #12
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My mistake.

Yes, I wouldn't go straight for it but if I were attacked by several people I would move into the C.A.R. position after I had to deal with the first attacker with the weaver position, or a hipshot technique. I think it works good for multiple opponents in that sense, exceptionally effective for law enforcement personel and what they have to deal with in a bad ordeal. They should teach this technique to our Special Operations as well if they don't already( it is quite new).

Someone could however go straight into it and be very effective.

I try to learn as many techniques as possible, maybe I can come up with my own system haha.
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Old July 8, 2006, 12:43 AM   #13
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The system has been taught to limited components of the SOC/SF community. Just as Threat-Focused skills have been taught to a few of them as well. I don't think there has been a breakthrough on a major scale for either system yet, though, in terms of the military.

You're right, it works well for the operators.
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Old July 8, 2006, 05:12 AM   #14
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Where did Mr. Castle work? Was he in the SAS or SBS or was he London Metro firearms brigade, I think it's called SO16... real good Swat team.

There is another person who has developed a hand to hand combat technique named James Williams and he never was in any law enforcement or military, and he now instructs Special Forces such as the Marine recon on advanced techniques. I have been thinking about trying for Seals or Marine Recon but I am not sure, I want to do some service and I am intrigued by special forces, I'd always have a job in law enforcement after.
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Old July 8, 2006, 08:57 AM   #15
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No, he wasn't SAS. He's got law enforcement experience, though.
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Old July 8, 2006, 09:33 AM   #16
Love&Hate12
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So a lot of self training, very respectable.
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Old July 9, 2006, 06:06 PM   #17
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Learned this technique at my CCW training

We were taught this stance when I took training for my CCW license. The stance was to be used at the three yard and less distance. Our teacher told us that the real reason he taught it was because the stance made it very difficult for a bad guy to take the weapon away from you. Our teacher reasoned most situations would be very close quarters and with the weapon close to your body it was more difficult to wrest it away. If you try it vice a weaver or isoceles you can see that it does work. Our teacher believed a big risk was a confrontation where someone would take away your weapon and use it against you. Hence he taught that technique.
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Old July 10, 2006, 12:26 AM   #18
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This was the basic CCW class that all must take. Most (70%) of the class were female. Not any tactics taught. Mostly survival on the street for the average (non-LEO) joe or josette.
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Old July 10, 2006, 09:34 AM   #19
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The retention position that Erick is referring to would be more applicable to a CCW encounter because it assumes that you are going to have to draw your weapon in a reactionary state.

The "high" position in C.A.R. works better if you've already got your weapon out and have to keep it ready to use but don't wish to hold it up all day. From the draw, you can get rounds on target much faster by using the 'retention position' taught by most police agencies.

It's not one or the other, they're two pieces to the same puzzle.

I will say that I don't think there is another system out there that's better for engaging from within a vehicle or confined space.
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Old July 10, 2006, 04:51 PM   #20
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OK I see. I think I may be getting the names mixed up but what this thread calls CAR looks a lot like what I was taught once in a CCW class. Thanks
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