The New York AG Takes Action Against The NRA

[44 AMP]

And they were pledging to spend tens of millions this election cycle. So this lawsuit will force them to spend that money on legal defenses.

There's a technical point in here somewhere, about the NRA spending money on political matters. They don't. Not exactly. Its something nearly always overlooked when people talk about NRA money influencing elections.

Spending money for political purposes violates their tax exempt status. SO, they don't do it. The ILA does it. The Institute for Legislative Action is the non-tax exempt organization created by the NRA specifically to collect money and spend it on political causes. It gets none of the NRA dues money.

Yes its a small distinction, but it is a legal one. Money given to the NRA doesn't go to political action, money given to the ILA (NRA-ILA) does.

or so I understand it.

A question for anyone who knows about the NY laws, do they equate "non-profit" with "charity"???

The reporting states the NRA is being sued for violating the rules about "charitable organizations", which, I assume is just sloppy reporting, but might be accurate IF the NY laws being used consider non-profit and charitable organizations the same.

The NRA is a non-profit group, but to my knowledge are not and never has been a charity.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by zxcvbob

Interesting (but not surprising) that they are going after the organization itself rather than criminal charges against WLP and the others.

If what is being alleged is true, then Wayne and others are running the NRA like a private business, not a charity, and thus can be viewed as an asset. The "members" have a right to take their business elsewhere. There are many state and national gun lobbies who would love to have more members.

[thallub]

Spending money for political purposes violates their tax exempt status

1. The NRA is a non-profit organization chartered in New York since 1871.

2. The NRA Foundation is a tax exempt organization chartered in Washington DC.

3. In an apparently co-ordinated effort, the DC attorney general also announced on 6 August that he was going after the NRA Foundation for violation of it's tax exempt charter. La Pierre and his cronies are accused of plundering the NRA Foundation and using the tax exempt funds for other purposes.

i've followed this dumpster fire since if first broke out at the NRA Convention last year.

In the New York Summons four individuals are charged with serious stuff: They are La Pierre, Phillips, Frazer and Powell.

BTW: This is not a civil lawsuit. It's a "we caught you cheating" action. Members of the NRA board of directors, La Pierre, Oliver North and numerous others have been deposed. The hard questions have been asked and answered. It's courthouse time.

i've read the Summons through twice. If folks really want to know what this is about read the Summons.

Disclaimer:

i ain't a lawyer, don't play one on TV. In my younger days i did sleep with a very pretty one for a long period.

Could the lawyers please comment.

Link:

https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/file...omplaint_1.pdf

[natman]

Originally Posted by LogicMan

It may not even be James herself that decided to do this from what I've heard, but rather that she was put under significant pressure by Democratic party power brokers to bring this suit.

I suspect she's a willing accomplice. Quote from 2018, when she first became NY AG:

The NRA holds [itself] out as a charitable organization, but in fact, [it] really [is] a terrorist organization.

https://www.ebony.com/news/letitia-t...orney-general/

[Tom Servo]

In an apparently co-ordinated effort, the DC attorney general also announced on 6 August that he was going after the NRA Foundation for violation of it's tax exempt charter.

This is the same drivel they did in the 1990s. Gun control advocates claimed the NRA Foundation was secretly funneling money into the ILA for political use. There were IRS audits, and they found exactly nothing amiss. It looks like they're trying that strategy again.

[Aguila Blanca]

This is the same drivel they did in the 1990s. Gun control advocates claimed the NRA Foundation was secretly funneling money into the ILA for political use. There were IRS audits, and they found exactly nothing amiss. It looks like they're trying that strategy again.

Except that this time around (if news reports are to be believed) the NRA borrowed large sums from the NRA Foundation, and didn't repay it. That certainly muddies the waters more than a little bit.

And, since they were audited on this during LaPierre's time at the NRA (not necessarily as Executive VP), he certainly should have been aware of the issue and should have done everything possible to ensure that there was never a problem. More proof that Wayne LaPierre cares only for himself, and not for the NRA.

I'm not sure of dates. I think WLP started working for the NRA in the 1970s, and became Exec VP in 1991. So he has been there long enough to be aware that there has to be a firewall between the NRA and the Foundation, and between the NRA and the NRA-ILA.

[thallub]

Except that this time around (if news reports are to be believed) the NRA borrowed large sums from the NRA Foundation, and didn't repay it.

It's no longer just news reports.

A. NRA Demands Loans from the Foundation
37. In order to address its cash flow problems and maintain the lavish expenses of its Executive
Director, officers, and “consultants,” the NRA used its control over the Foundation to raid the
Foundation’s funds. For instance, in October 2017, the NRA requested a $5 million loan from the
Foundation’s Investment Committee.
38. In assessing whether to extend the loan, the Foundation’s Investment Committee consulted
with the Foundation’s investment consultant, which agreed that the loan would “make sense” if
the NRA was able to repay the loan in three months and pay a 7% interest rate, netting the
Foundation a total of $87,500 in interest in that three month period.

Scroll down to the part about the co-mingling of funds with no accounting for money borrowed from the NRA foundation.

Link to the DC attorney general's complaint:

https://oag.dc.gov/sites/default/fil...t-Redacted.pdf

[TXAZ]

Is someone mentioned above up for re-election or something like that?
I don't understand the legalese like some of the Legal Eagles here but I understand how to smell an election coming

[Aguila Blanca]

Is someone mentioned above up for re-election or something like that?

Who are you talking about? Was Trump named in the indictment?

[Andy Blozinski]

They've been leveraging gun ownership panic as a source of personal income for years. They're finally getting called out on it.

[burrhead]

There is a pretty good article in the National Review about all this today. A lot of the problem is apparently alleged money laundering between Ackerman McQueen and WLP to avoid income taxes. WLP may be in deep kimchi.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/...e-association/

[thallub]

The National Review article is heavy on political trash and very light on facts. It's true that the NY AG is an anti-gunner out to get the NRA, no doubt about that. However, corrupt Wayne Pa Pierre and his minions did what the anti-gunners were never able to accomplish, the neutering of the NRA.

1. There is no mention of the internal fight at the NRA Convention brought about by the demand of the President, one LTC Oliver North, for an outside audit of NRA spending. No audit was ever accomplished.

2. There is no mention of Wayne La Pierre's over reaction.

3. The author makes no mention of the 20+ members of the NRA Board of Directors who received money from the NRA for alleged "services" to the organization.

4. The author makes no mention of the silencing of NRA members by the Board of Directors at the request of Wayne La Pierre.

5. There is no mention of the default on a loan that caused the NRA to demand a loan from the tax free NRA Foundation. The borrowed tax free funds were co-mingled with NRA funds with no accounting for spending.

6. The fact that Wayne La Pierre spent $100 million dollars on lawsuits is not mentioned.

7. The author forgot to mention that William Brewer, head of the NRA outside law firm has supported anti-gunners, including Hillary Clinton. Brewer is also the son-in-law of the late CEO of Ackerman-McQueen, Angus McQueen, and brother-in-law of the current CEO.

According to the article, Wayne La Pierre and his cohorts are steadfastly hanging on while the gun hating "liberals" pound on the gates.

The NY AG is attempting to recoup millions of dollars from four current and former members of the NRA leadership.

In July, 2019 there was an article in Ammoland concerning the NRA debacle. There are comments by former NRA board members. i apologize for the title of the article.

https://tinyurl.com/yy8d5jmc

[natman]

Originally Posted by TXAZ

Is someone mentioned above up for re-election or something like that?
I don't understand the legalese like some of the Legal Eagles here but I understand how to smell an election coming

The NY Governor and AG are not due up for reelection until 2022. However both would love nothing better than to be able to say "I destroyed the NRA" when election time does roll around.

[Tennessee Gentleman]

Here is a good podcast to listen to concerning this issue: https://guntalk.libsyn.com/rss.

Take aways:

1. Several things can be true at the same time. The NYAG is anti gun and overreaching and will not be successful in dissolving the NRA. There is and was corruption within the leadership of the NRA.
2. This has been going on for years and is typical pathology for large popular and wealthy organizations (see Penn State scandal).
3. May not have that much impact on the 2020 election as the membership is where the real power is.
4. Will go on for years

[thallub]

Methinks the judge will not approve the dissolution of the NRA.

The judge will probably appoint an overseer to ensure the NRA leadership and board of directors comply with the bylaws and with pertinent laws of the state of NY.

Wayne La Pierre is a goner. So is the NRA counsel mentioned in the Summons. La Pierre, Joshua Powell and Wilson Phillips will be forced to give up some serious money and may be prosecuted.

If the administration changes the IRS will go after three with a vengeance.

Se Prayer For Relief beginning on page 163, forget A, B, and C:

https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/file...omplaint_1.pdf

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by thallub

Se Prayer For Relief beginning on page 163, forget A, B, and C:

https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/file...omplaint_1.pdf

Hmmm ...

A. Dissolve the NRA

...

G. Make the named defendants (LaPierre, et. al.) pay restitution to the NRA [that we just dissolved] and pay damages to the NRA [that we just dissolved].

[thallub]

Hmmm ...

A. Dissolve the NRA

...

G. Make the named defendants (LaPierre, et. al.) pay restitution to the NRA [that we just dissolved] and pay damages to the NRA [that we just dissolved].

It could be added to the charitable donation of any money held by the NRA after dissolution. Obviously all this stuff will not happen.

BTW: The stuckee in this debacle is the NRA counsel, John Frazer. Frazer passed the bar exam in 2009, was hired by the NRA in about 2015 and has little experience practicing law. He could be disbarred.

ADDED:

IMO: In his Prayer For Relief in the NRA Foundation case the DC AG is more realistic:

https://oag.dc.gov/sites/default/fil...t-Redacted.pdf

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Impose a constructive trust? Are they going to name Lanny Davis or Eric Holder as Trustee? Maybe both in the interests of fairness?

[Tony Z]

Methinks both AGs have got a tiger by the tail. Timing MAY have been for election damage, but they may have underestimated those in this country that support the 2A, and how their action may mobilize otherwise complacent gun owners to vote for gun rights, even if not members of the NRA.

[ghbucky]

hmmm ...

A. Dissolve the nra

...

G. Make the named defendants (lapierre, et. Al.) pay restitution to the nra [that we just dissolved] and pay damages to the nra [that we just dissolved].

... Profit!

Fify

[j3ffr0]

Like many other organization, the NRA could use a lot of reform. Under WLP, they have become a political organization that basically just wants to sell moar guns to anyone by whatever means. I watched WLP and the NRA say things Obama never actually said to induce panic buying every time there was a mass shooting.... "aww shucks, Obama is coming for your guns now."

Obama never expressed the desire to come after anyone's guns. All he really said was he wanted was background checks to keep the guns out of the hands of the mental ill (Trump overturned that in 2017). I'm no Obama fan, but any organization that has to lie to win favor and gin up sales after a tragedy doesn't deserve my support. I consider myself pro gun, anti NRA.

[44 AMP]

All he really said was he wanted was background checks to keep the guns out of the hands of the mental ill (Trump overturned that in 2017).

That is, essentially, the narrative given about that situation by the mainstream media, and does not accurately reflect the actual facts.

In 1968 the law set the legal due process requirements for adjudicating someone mentally ill and prohibiting them from possessing firearms.

Regardless of what he said, what the Obama administration did, resulted in an entire group of people being classified as prohibited persons without the due process required by the 1968 law.

What the Trump administration repealed was not any law about mentally ill possessing guns, what was repealed was the Obama administrations rules that deprived people of due process. It wasn't about what the press said it was about.

Since the current NY legal action is calling for dissolution of the NRA (rather than fixing the flaws) I think its not really about what the press says it is, either.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Regardless of what he said, what the Obama administration did, resulted in an entire group of people being classified as prohibited persons without the due process required by the 1968 law.

What the Trump administration repealed was not any law about mentally ill possessing guns, what was repealed was the Obama administrations rules that deprived people of due process. It wasn't about what the press said it was about.

In both cases, it wasn't one group of people -- it was two.

The one that got most of the press was recipients of social security who designated someone else to mind their checkbook. The second group, that didn't get much press, was military veterans who (like social security recipients) designated someone to receive their pension checks. Like the Social Security Administration, the Department of Veterans Affairs automatically classified those people as mentally deficient and reported them as such to NICS. The VA's attitude was essentially, "We're the goverment. That's as judicial as you're going to get."

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Originally Posted by j3ffro

Obama never expressed the desire to come after anyone's guns. All he really said was he wanted was background checks to keep the guns out of the hands of the mental ill (Trump overturned that in 2017). I'm no Obama fan, but any organization that has to lie to win favor and gin up sales after a tragedy doesn't deserve my support. I consider myself pro gun, anti NRA.

Get out of here with that revisionist BS. Obama had a long history of anti-gun policy even before he became President including leadership roles in the Joyce Foundation and voting to prosecute Illinois citizens for lawful self-defense.

He proposed not only background checks (which were written so vaguely as to create criminals for common behavior), he proposed bans on semi-automatic firearms, you know - the ones that have been the most popular selling firearms for going on three decades now? Additionally, Trump didn’t “overturn” any ban on the mentally ill being prohibited or not subject to background checks in 2017 or any other year.

As for the NRA or any other pro-RKBA organization, they’ll do just fine without your support.

[thallub]

The Dep't of Veterans Affairs has long reported veterans having fiduciaries appointed for management of funds to NICS. Yep, when the VA appoints a fiduciary they are still authorized to report the veteran to NICS. That procedure remains in effect.

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act prohibits you from purchasing, possessing, receiving or transporting a firearm or ammunition if you have “been adjudicated as a mental defective or been committed to a mental institution.” In compliance with this act, VA reports the names of incompetent beneficiaries to the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI), which then adds the names to a database called the National Instant Criminal Background Check System

https://benefits.va.gov/fiduciary/beneficiary.asp

This stuff has been VA policy since the Clinton administration. There have been periods where the VA head refused to report them to NICS. Unsure if the procedure is being applied presently.

The very same US government that requires states to declare persons mentally incompetent by order of a court, board or commission makes different rules for itself and is authorized to trash veterans gun rights using an administrative procedure.