The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 1, 2018, 11:36 PM   #76
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 8,798
Quote:
Well, it doesn't matter. It's too late because you hesitated too long!
Oh bother.
__________________
Know the status of your weapon
Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges
Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture
Maintain situational awareness
TunnelRat is online now  
Old August 2, 2018, 04:05 PM   #77
Ingramite
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2017
Posts: 9
It's not just a .25.
It's a Beretta.

Three thumbs up from me on your choice.
Ingramite is offline  
Old August 2, 2018, 04:44 PM   #78
Satchmoeddie
Member
 
Join Date: November 21, 2008
Posts: 46
9x19, 9x17, .32ACP, .25ACP, or .22LR, I don't want to be on the wrong end of any of'em!

I own Beretta Model 21 & 21As in .22 LR, and .25ACP, along with the 950 Jetfire in .25ACP, a Baby Browning, a Galesi and a few other little .25s, and I thought, "I am going to go up to the Tomcat, Beretta 3032, in .32ACP." MAYBE A HUGE MISTAKE!?!? The .32 ACP Tomcat is not at all fun to shoot compared to the 21 or 950 in .25 ACP, and the damage either gun can do is about the same with the right ammo in the .25 ACP. I even bought 4 magazines for the 3032, and used it as a summer or formal wear primary carry for quite a few years, but I have gone back to the .25ACP. The bullets expand out almost as big as a .32 ACP, and they are a lot more fun to shoot, and practice with. Yes, the sights are much better, and bigger on the .32 ACP Tomcat, so that is "something" positive. Do I feel undergunned? Only in the sense of, "What if I ever need to shoot someone at a greater distance than 7 yards?" Practicing getting good with the .25 ACP was more fun than with the .32 ACP and 6,7 or 8 .25 JHPs will do the job 98% of the time. The little .25ACP in your pocket beats the big old 1911 you left at home, every single time. I also have an old, but insanely reliable AMT .380 Backup. That is a miserable gun to shoot. It goes bang without fail every time I pull the trigger. The grip safety and thumb safety make it a great pocket or purse gun, but it is bit painful to shoot that thing. It's stainless steel, not plastic, so I have some more weight to mitigate the recoil, but dang! Maybe it's the shape of the grip, and my hands that are mismatched. 6 rounds from that 380 is enough for me to say, "I hope my target is really really close, because this shooting practice session is over. Bring out another gun. This one sucks!" At least with the .25 ACP practice is actually fun. It's really fun! The ammo is not cheap, but it what it is. THE JETFIRE IS A GREAT LITTLE GUN! I have Jetfires with and without safeties too. Some of them have had the safeties removed. I think some never had a safety to begin with, as they are a single action, and unless it's cocked, no bang bang...I had a, uhm, err.... an associate who was trying to muscle some money away from someone he had just hustled at a game of pool, who was shot in the face with a .22 Short, which is about as anemic a round as one can find. His face looked like Daffy Duck after Elmer Fudd shoots him in that cartoon about Rabbit Season or Duck Season. He had a hole in his face, a fat lip, missing hair, no eyebrows, and copious powder burns all over neck and his face. It took all the fight right out of him, and for about the next 3 minutes he was thoroughly convinced that he was, indeed, going to die. Reagan was shot with some kind of "exploding" .22LR ammo that had primer material inside the bullets, but it is doubtful those bullets ever actually "exploded". The one that hit the car may have blown up and fragmented or just deformed. I forget what those things were called. Last I checked, they were still available.

Last edited by Satchmoeddie; August 2, 2018 at 05:14 PM. Reason: I missed some words & spelling counts, I guess.
Satchmoeddie is offline  
Old August 2, 2018, 05:21 PM   #79
Satchmoeddie
Member
 
Join Date: November 21, 2008
Posts: 46
I started carrying the Glock 43 over the .25 ACP, but around the house, a .25 ACP is in my pocket whenever the Sig P228 or CZ75B is not hanging underneath my left armpit. .25ACP is good enough to get the job done most of the time. Empty the gun into someone, and over 98% of the time, that fight is over. Also, image what a Jury will think when they see that cute little Jetfire, compared to something like a Glock, or better yet a Smith & Wesson 500, or a Desert Eagle.
Satchmoeddie is offline  
Old August 2, 2018, 06:00 PM   #80
cjwils
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2010
Location: Washington state
Posts: 311
I had a .25 years ago that I was considering as a carry gun. But I sold it when I saw that bullets would ricochet off a tin can if the can was not hit squarely.
cjwils is offline  
Old August 2, 2018, 06:08 PM   #81
Carmady
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2013
Location: Ashtabula, OH
Posts: 1,008
Quote:
He had a hole in his face, a fat lip, missing hair, no eyebrows, and copious powder burns all over neck and his face. It took all the fight right out of him, and for about the next 3 minutes he was thoroughly convinced that he was, indeed, going to die.
Where did the bullet end up?
Carmady is offline  
Old August 2, 2018, 06:39 PM   #82
Auto5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2013
Location: Chicago suburbs
Posts: 555
I have, from time to time, carried Baby Browning clones, usually when I couldn't carry anything else. I replaced my PSP with a Ruger LCP years ago, but I missed the little .25, so I picked up a Bauer.
__________________
At the young age of five, a bear told me that I was the only person who could prevent forest fires. Why I was chosen, I'll never know.
Auto5 is offline  
Old August 2, 2018, 08:23 PM   #83
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 8,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satchmoeddie View Post
I started carrying the Glock 43 over the .25 ACP, but around the house, a .25 ACP is in my pocket whenever the Sig P228 or CZ75B is not hanging underneath my left armpit. .25ACP is good enough to get the job done most of the time. Empty the gun into someone, and over 98% of the time, that fight is over. Also, image what a Jury will think when they see that cute little Jetfire, compared to something like a Glock, or better yet a Smith & Wesson 500, or a Desert Eagle.
I'm sorry but I think that final sentence is ludicrous. We should deliberately choose dimunitive firearms with decreased ballistic performance simply so we'll look less menacing? I'm not lugging around a 500SW, but I'm not stopping carrying a 9mm because it looks scarier. There's also a hell of a lot of middle ground between 25ACP and 500SW. While I understand the importance of perception in making a narrative, that is going overboard IMO. Especially when you're in your own dwelling as you described above.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
TunnelRat is online now  
Old August 3, 2018, 12:52 AM   #84
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 9,605
"I had a .25 years ago that I was considering as a carry gun. But I sold it when I saw that bullets would ricochet off a tin can if the can was not hit squarely."

A .45 automatic will do the same thing....
Better not carry one of them, either.
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old August 3, 2018, 03:38 PM   #85
OneFreeTexan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2002
Location: West, Texas
Posts: 113
Didn’t I read that until just recently that the largest grizzled bear shot, was killed by an Eskimo lady with a single shot .22 rifle.??
OneFreeTexan is offline  
Old August 4, 2018, 12:00 AM   #86
TruthTellers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 22, 2016
Posts: 2,072
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneFreeTexan View Post
Didn’t I read that until just recently that the largest grizzled bear shot, was killed by an Eskimo lady with a single shot .22 rifle.??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1uTsqJVAeo
__________________
Any good revolver > Any good semi auto
TruthTellers is offline  
Old August 4, 2018, 08:36 AM   #87
shurshot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Posts: 913
A .22 LR fired out of a rifle length barrel, is an entirely different projectile than a .25 ACP fired from a small pistol. In my youth, I saw some BIG animals killed on my Grandfathers farm with an old .22 rifle. Those .22's can penetrate deep. Shot placement is essential. Heart or spinal column, will incapacitate if not outright kill, but preferably a brain shot. Immediate lights out with a brain shot.
shurshot is offline  
Old August 4, 2018, 08:56 AM   #88
Ricklin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2008
Location: SW Washington state
Posts: 1,344
Overlooked??

Number 1 for carry or right up there. RELIABILITY.

How many FTF's have you had with any .22 rimfire cartridge?

How many FTF's have you had with any center fire cartridge?

While FTF's are not common with high quality .22 cartridges no one will argue they are AS reliable as center fire ignition.

For this reason alone if I had to choose a .22 vs. a .25 my choice would be the .25
__________________
ricklin
Freedom is not free
Ricklin is offline  
Old August 4, 2018, 09:29 AM   #89
Don Fischer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2017
Posts: 1,208
I have always felt that anything in N. America could be killed with a 22 LR. The lady that killed the grizzly bear used a 22 Long in a single shot! Have always believed that but prudence being the better part of valor, never was willing to test the theory. Well she showed that it can be done! If you carefully choose your shot from close enough the animal will die! But even though, I wouldn't shoot at a person with anything smaller than my 9mm and wit it I would not be willing to take a shot much over 21 feet. I suppose the cartridge would do it but I doubt I could.

I have qualms even about dropping down to a 380 and I have a 32 acp I haven't shot in several years. No way in the world would I used a .25 cal unless it was my 25-06! That's not to say that if all I had was a 25 cal that I wouldn't attempt it. You can fight back with a 25 or just lay down and die, I'd rather fight back even if I felt under gunned! There's a reason I got the gun I did for carry, S&W Shield c9mm. It's very light, easy to hide away and very little recoil.

Over the years, i shot a number of different handgun from my 32acp to 41 mag and the 22 RF. Two thing's it taught me was I don't like recoil in a handgun much at all and I'm not a really good handgun shot. That being the case I needed something light to carry that was low on recoil. Enter the 9mm. And just to be sure it wouldn't hurt me I only used cast bullet's for a couple year's and in the past year have found a JHP to used for carry loads. Still practice with cast though. I doubt the 25's recoil would bother me at all and you'd think with my attitude about the smallest cartridge needed to kill anything, I could go for the 25 in a defense weapon, not a chance! Like I said, if it was all I had, go for it but, I had the opportunity to choose when I bought it and my primary concern's were it was light, easy to hide away and heavy enough cal to work well. Shoot, the military use's the 9mm, it ought to work.

I think that 25 only come's in an auto too. I'm not big on auto loader CF guns even though I have two. But the small one allows me to carry more ammo than my revolver's and reloads much faster should the need arise. I'm much better shot with my revolver's but in self defense sit I somehow doubt the target will be far off, when practicing with my 9mm's I never aim and with any handgun have never shot at a paper target! The 25 will certainly fall in the easy to hide shoot and reload catiglory but I'd still feel better knowing I could stop someone a lot quicker. No special reward for firing tight group's in self defense but the prise just may be that you live and the other guy doesn't!
Don Fischer is online now  
Old August 5, 2018, 08:45 AM   #90
Buckeye!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 1, 2008
Posts: 724
Im sure the 25acp has laid to rest a few bad guys ! Myself .. I have carried a 32acp as a BUG in the past .. But I never owned a 25acp
Buckeye! is offline  
Old August 6, 2018, 06:31 AM   #91
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 39,943
"Number 1 for carry or right up there. RELIABILITY.

How many FTF's have you had with any .22 rimfire cartridge?

How many FTF's have you had with any center fire cartridge?

While FTF's are not common with high quality .22 cartridges no one will argue they are AS reliable as center fire ignition.

For this reason alone if I had to choose a .22 vs. a .25 my choice would be the .25"


I have a Taurus TP-22. Got it years ago. I often carry it when I need to carry something small and light.

With it, using Winchester WildCat ammunition (over 2,000 rounds), I have had 0 failures to fire, 0 failures to feed, 0 failures to eject.

I did have failures to fire first strike with CCI ammo. The brass was apparently just hard enough to make a first strike iffy.

Switching back to WildCat ammo solved that.


In the past 35 years the only .22 LR failures I recall have happened with extremely cheap ammunition, some from the Philippines and with Remington Thunderbolt.

I've had more centerfire failures to fire (again, Remington ammo) than I have had .22 rimfire ammo from Winchester, Federal, or PMC.

The biggest concern with ignition reliability in .22 ammo is price point. If you buy the "big box o'.22 bullets for $5.55 at Walmart, you're going to get ammo that's been made to that price point.

The odd exception to the above seems to be Federal Champion, which is often sold by the large carton at Walmart. It's been very consistent for me, and very accurate. But I've not tried shooting it in the TP-22, only my Buckmark and my S&W Model 18.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old August 6, 2018, 02:56 PM   #92
OneFreeTexan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2002
Location: West, Texas
Posts: 113
I have an older LaFury 25 acp...Probably doesn’t measure up to the Berettas. But I can try it and remind myself if I like 25acp, then get a Beretta.
OneFreeTexan is offline  
Old August 6, 2018, 03:48 PM   #93
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 3,018
Since we are talking itsy bitsy tiny pocket pistols......
I was watching a youtube video of gel penetration tests of 90 grain Precision One .380 ammo into gel from a Glock 42. He was getting 897 fps at the max, lowest 830. So, I though cool, 13 inches of penetration with 897 fps. I looked up the ballistics on Shooters calcuator site and found that this was 161 foot pounds ME.

And then I though, wait, that's very close to what I was getting with my tiny little .32 seecamp. The Winchester FMJ 71 grains flat nose were 1028 and 995 for around 155 foot pounds ME.

So although kinetic ballistic calculations are not the end all, and the .32 is smaller diameter bullet, probably the penetration with the .32 FMJ are similar. Everything is a trade off or compromise, but comparing the size difference between a tiny little Seecamp, 7 rounds in the gun, 6 in a mag easily in my front pocket vs. the size of a glock 42 and and extra mag, and the similarities in the ballistics, I more happy now carrying my little seecamp both as BUG and even primary at times.
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is online now  
Old August 8, 2018, 10:52 AM   #94
davidsog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2018
Posts: 329
I can put you in touch with a cab driver in Atlanta who was shot at point blank range 5 times in the back of the head. He took 3 .25 caliber bullets and two .32 ACP bullets, got out of the cab, beat the crap out of one of the guys who tried to rob him....got back in his car and drove to the corner of the block to a store.

There he put the vehicle in park and passed out. The store owner called an ambulance and the cab driver survived. The cops found the unconscious shooter in the street and arrested him.
davidsog is offline  
Old August 8, 2018, 11:06 AM   #95
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 39,943
I could put you in direct contact with a guy who took a .22 to the chest and bled out in a matter of minutes.

Of course, it would have to be via a seance.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old August 8, 2018, 11:09 AM   #96
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 9,605
There are many stories of calibers larger than .25 or .32 failing to penetrate the skull.
This anecdotal evidence does not mean these calibers are not otherwise effective.
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old August 9, 2018, 12:07 PM   #97
davidsog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2018
Posts: 329
Quote:
The lower caliber rounds (.22, .25, .32) had a failure rate that was roughly double that of the higher caliber rounds.
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/handgun-stopping-power

That is the most important thing people miss when discussing handgun calibers. That is not handgun malfunctions, that is the failure to incapacitate based on law enforcement data from the gunfights examined.

The trend shows the smaller caliber handguns simply have twice the chance of leaving an attacker with an intact ability to cause you harm no matter where you hit them.

Yes, you can kill someone with a .25 ACP about the same as a .45 caliber but you have TWICE the chance that person will take the hit and do you harm.
davidsog is offline  
Old August 9, 2018, 09:48 PM   #98
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 9,605
You shoot them twice. That evens things up...
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old August 9, 2018, 09:57 PM   #99
davidsog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2018
Posts: 329
Quote:
You shoot them twice.
Agreed! That is a rule no matter what the caliber!

Last edited by davidsog; August 10, 2018 at 11:05 AM.
davidsog is offline  
Old August 10, 2018, 07:38 PM   #100
bedbugbilly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 19, 2009
Posts: 3,115
Everyone has their own preferences and if you feel safe carrying a .25 then go for it. Some folks carry a .22. Choice is up to you.

Just remember that if you ever have to pull and youse your weapon, you have no idea of the circumstances requiring it . . . nor how you will react. I saw a number of shootings in the years I worked ambulance and fire rescue - all different calibers. You'd be surprised what a human body can take, especially when hopped up on drugs. Chances are, your bad guy opponent is going to be armed with a much larger caliber than your .25. Personally, I want something that will put the bad guy down and put him down quick if he is shooting at me.

But, in the end, it's still a "personal thing". That is a nice looking little mouse gun though!
__________________
If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63
bedbugbilly is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13276 seconds with 11 queries