Plain Old M16 (AR)

Roamin_Wade · July 28, 2018, 02:00 AM

Is anyone making a basic standard M16-from-1969 era looking AR? If so, who? All these bells and whistles with these picatinny rails all over the place, and I just want one that looks just like they did and I don’t want to spend $2500 to get it.

Targa · July 28, 2018, 05:43 AM

For the A1 look that you desire you may need to build one. Here is a A2 though https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...%2F5.56NATO+20

PushPuller · July 28, 2018, 06:17 AM

Definetly have to build or re-dress one. My dad has loved the retro Vietnam era look since he was a kid, and has made several of his ARs into the Vietnam era "M16" they never could be. The feel of them is great!

rkbanet · July 28, 2018, 07:03 AM

Fulton Armory does great work.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/farifle...3-2-2-7-2.aspx

highpower3006 · July 28, 2018, 07:29 AM

You and I think alike. I really like AR15's, but I just can't stand the rails/lights/optic sight look of "modern" AR's. I lucked into a trade a few years ago and acquired a nearly unfired Colt SP1 and I liked it so much that I decided to build a late sixties era M16 clone. That period in time happened to coincide with the influx of M16 kits into the US and I bought three of them for about $200 each and built them into the rifles I wanted.

I know the kits are no longer around, but even buying new parts retail, you should be able to build a very nice clone for under $1500 using quality parts. Even if you have never assembled an AR, it is about as easy a project you could ever find and you only need a few simple tools and the ability to follow instructions to put one together.

The start of my madness: An early SP1.

The first one I built was going to be a standard M16, but I stumbled onto a new NDS M16E1 receiver that a local gun store was selling for less than retail so I decided to make a transitional M16E1.

The second one was on another NDS receiver that I had engraved and is modeled after the type of M16 that you are looking for; a late sixties through the seventies M16A1.

The last one I did was a bit less traditional as I wanted to make a copy of a XM177E2. This took a bit more work as I reprofiled a 80% receiver to an A1 profile and had it engraved. Since this picture was taken, I have acquired a barrel with a more accurate copy of the original moderator.

Please, before the hand wringers get started, I did not build these rifles for sale. I am not going into the business of selling counterfeit Colt M16 clones. As long as I am not trying to sell any Colt marked rifles as Colts, I can put any darned thing I want to on the receiver (I checked with an attorney.)

Sevens · July 28, 2018, 07:33 AM

Awwww, why no love for H&R or Hydramatic?!

Haha, sorry if I don't know the specific details of who else made which variants.

ttarp · July 28, 2018, 08:11 AM

Brownells recently started selling several retro models.

Wag · July 28, 2018, 09:57 AM

Great looking rifles, Highpower. You're making me rethink my next AR's.......

--Wag--

marine6680 · July 28, 2018, 10:57 AM

Brownell's has retro style... Different models for different periods, from the very first release, through the changes into the 70s.

They went through great trouble to even replicate the small parts and their details, not just use modern versions. They also recreate the old receivers and not use a modern type.

So you will get non captured pins and the old triangle shaped charging handle and old style receivers... They don't come too cheap though, starting around $1100 or so.

RC20 · July 28, 2018, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Please, before the hand wringers get started, I did not build these rifles for sale. I am not going into the business of selling counterfeit Colt M16 clones. As long as I am not trying to sell any Colt marked rifles as Colts, I can put any darned thing I want to on the receiver (I checked with an attorney.)

I was just going to say that having something marked as US Gvt property sort of makes me nervous to think about, but if you have nerves of barrel steel, what the heck.

It should make for interesting items for the estate/inheritance end.

The Trade Marks infringement aspect just adds a twist (1 in 14 I hope?) to that. Being the pondering rather than hand wringing type, it makes me wonder how many Trade Mark Infringement lawsuits your attorneys has been through though.

I love the Chutzpah though.

highpower3006 · July 28, 2018, 12:38 PM

Well, think about this, how many 1911’s are out there with “US Property” on them? I personally own seven so they are pretty common. Also pretty much every M1 Garand and GI issue M1 carbine were made for the government. I have a few of each and so do many other folks that were released by the government for civilian sales. That is not to mention the thousands upon thousands of S&W and Colt M1917 revolvers and WWII S&W Victory models that are in the hands of civilians.

As long as you are not trying to sell it an item by misrepresenting it as having been manufactured by the owner of a particular trademark, you are doing nothing illegal. For instance, if you were to build a part for your own use and put "Harley-Davidson" on it, you have done nothing illegal.

If, on the other hand, you build that same part marked "Harley-Davidson" and proceed to market it, you are now subject to the laws regarding trademark infringement.

stagpanther · July 28, 2018, 05:53 PM

Quote:

makes me wonder how many Trade Mark Infringement lawsuits your attorneys has been through though.

Model12Win · July 28, 2018, 06:14 PM

Without the full-auto happy switch selector, all they are is a phoney copy.

Better to clone a semi-auto only U.S. Army SDMR:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...Marksman_Rifle

That way you can get all the REAL parts to a USGI weapon, making it all but identical to the real deal minus markings, AND you get a better semi-auto shooter with more accuracy and range than any "M16A1-A2" wannabe.

kymasabe · July 28, 2018, 08:00 PM

I'm more of an M4gery guy, but I can appreciate the work it takes to build one of those A1/A2 rifles. Nice builds.

Reloadron · July 28, 2018, 08:03 PM

A Google of "retro ar parts for sale" will get you plenty of hits like this one. You also, as mentioned, want to checkout Brownells for their retro line.

All of my AR rifles are about as plain as can be, no frills. Left to right a pair of Colt SP1 rifles, a Colt sporter target, a mixmaster I put together which actually shoots really well and is my only scoped AR, my Armalite early AR 10T.

You can buy a Colt SP1 for about $1500 or just roll your own for much less.

Ron

highpower3006 · July 28, 2018, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Without the full-auto happy switch selector, all they are is a phoney copy.

Better to clone a semi-auto only U.S. Army SDMR:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...Marksman_Rifle

That way you can get all the REAL parts to a USGI weapon, making it all but identical to the real deal minus markings, AND you get a better semi-auto shooter with more accuracy and range than any "M16A1-A2" wannabe.

Define "phoney" is that kind of like your Auto Ordnance sort-of-a copy of a WWII GI 1911-A1 that you have posted pictures of so many times? If having a "phony" copy of a GI gun offends you so much, how come you don't show off a real deal GI 1911? Certainly they cost more, but then you would have a gun with "real" USGI markings instead of what's on your gun. If a copy loosely based on a GI gun is good enough for you, then what is wrong with applying the same standard to what someone else wants?

The OP said he wanted a 20" barreled M16 copy as was used in the late sixties. Not whatever you are talking about.

In the case of the rifles I pictured, all the parts except for the receivers on the M16 clones and the receiver and barrel on the XM177 are genuine USGI M16 parts. The receivers have the same profile as the early AR15/M16 receivers. In the case of the SP1, it is all Colt. They are as close as you are going to get to an era correct M16 without shelling out some serious dollars for a transferable genuine M16.

The rifle you are talking about would no doubt have a aftermarket receiver anyway, so in essence it would be exactly the same. Yep, the ones I pictured don't have the auto sear, but short of getting a O7 FFL/SOT and making a post '86 dealer sample, they are plenty good enough.

CockNBama · July 28, 2018, 09:36 PM

I'd rather have the poncho liner.

marine6680 · July 28, 2018, 11:54 PM

I want the sleeping bag system...

I am interested in the brownells retro... Maybe the first main issue version, or possibly the original airforce version ... Not sure.

But first I need to get an A2 clone, or an A4 depending on availability. As I was issued an A2 in the service, so I want a full size rifle in the collection.

Road_Clam · July 30, 2018, 06:13 PM

I have a mint Colt 20" A2 upper would love to swap out to the 60's type triangular handguard. Can you buy this handguard setup anywhere as a swap ?

Reloadron · July 30, 2018, 06:23 PM

Yes, Brownell's among other sources. AR-15 RETRO HANDGUARD SETS. You can buy handguards and entire kits.

Ron

44caliberkid · August 1, 2018, 06:07 PM

I got one of the dewatt M16 parts kits, from Israeli contract M16's of the 1970's. Just like what I carried in the Army. Used an Anderson lower, a generic carry handle upper. I also needed a new barrel of the correct profile. It went together great. I had a unit decal from my time in service, that I scanned, color copied on a piece of adhesive backed paper, and stuck it on the butt stock. Those kits have dried up but you see one on GunBroker occasionally, prices have doubled or tripled. Now you would pay more for just the butt stock and handguard than I paid for the whole kit.

July 28, 2018, 02:00 AM	#1
Roamin_Wade Junior member Join Date: July 11, 2018 Location: Baytown, TX Posts: 220	Plain Old M16 (AR) Is anyone making a basic standard M16-from-1969 era looking AR? If so, who? All these bells and whistles with these picatinny rails all over the place, and I just want one that looks just like they did and I don’t want to spend $2500 to get it.

July 28, 2018, 07:33 AM	#6
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Awwww, why no love for H&R or Hydramatic?! Haha, sorry if I don't know the specific details of who else made which variants. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

July 28, 2018, 09:57 AM	#8
Wag Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2010 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 988	Great looking rifles, Highpower. You're making me rethink my next AR's....... --Wag-- __________________ "Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein.

July 28, 2018, 12:38 PM	#11
highpower3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Location: Savannah TN Posts: 1,220	Well, think about this, how many 1911’s are out there with “US Property” on them? I personally own seven so they are pretty common. Also pretty much every M1 Garand and GI issue M1 carbine were made for the government. I have a few of each and so do many other folks that were released by the government for civilian sales. That is not to mention the thousands upon thousands of S&W and Colt M1917 revolvers and WWII S&W Victory models that are in the hands of civilians. As long as you are not trying to sell it an item by misrepresenting it as having been manufactured by the owner of a particular trademark, you are doing nothing illegal. For instance, if you were to build a part for your own use and put "Harley-Davidson" on it, you have done nothing illegal. If, on the other hand, you build that same part marked "Harley-Davidson" and proceed to market it, you are now subject to the laws regarding trademark infringement. Last edited by highpower3006; July 28, 2018 at 01:01 PM.

July 28, 2018, 08:00 PM	#14
kymasabe Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2005 Location: SW Florida Posts: 2,747	I'm more of an M4gery guy, but I can appreciate the work it takes to build one of those A1/A2 rifles. Nice builds. __________________ God's creatures big and small, eat them one, eat them all. Last edited by kymasabe; July 29, 2018 at 07:42 AM.

July 28, 2018, 05:43 AM	#2
Targa Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Posts: 2,084	For the A1 look that you desire you may need to build one. Here is a A2 though https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...%2F5.56NATO+20

July 28, 2018, 06:17 AM	#3
PushPuller Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2018 Posts: 156	Definetly have to build or re-dress one. My dad has loved the retro Vietnam era look since he was a kid, and has made several of his ARs into the Vietnam era "M16" they never could be. The feel of them is great!

July 28, 2018, 07:03 AM	#4
rkbanet Member Join Date: April 16, 2012 Posts: 64	Fulton Armory does great work. http://www.fulton-armory.com/farifle...3-2-2-7-2.aspx

July 28, 2018, 07:29 AM	#5
highpower3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Location: Savannah TN Posts: 1,220	You and I think alike. I really like AR15's, but I just can't stand the rails/lights/optic sight look of "modern" AR's. I lucked into a trade a few years ago and acquired a nearly unfired Colt SP1 and I liked it so much that I decided to build a late sixties era M16 clone. That period in time happened to coincide with the influx of M16 kits into the US and I bought three of them for about $200 each and built them into the rifles I wanted. I know the kits are no longer around, but even buying new parts retail, you should be able to build a very nice clone for under $1500 using quality parts. Even if you have never assembled an AR, it is about as easy a project you could ever find and you only need a few simple tools and the ability to follow instructions to put one together. The start of my madness: An early SP1. The first one I built was going to be a standard M16, but I stumbled onto a new NDS M16E1 receiver that a local gun store was selling for less than retail so I decided to make a transitional M16E1. The second one was on another NDS receiver that I had engraved and is modeled after the type of M16 that you are looking for; a late sixties through the seventies M16A1. The last one I did was a bit less traditional as I wanted to make a copy of a XM177E2. This took a bit more work as I reprofiled a 80% receiver to an A1 profile and had it engraved. Since this picture was taken, I have acquired a barrel with a more accurate copy of the original moderator. Please, before the hand wringers get started, I did not build these rifles for sale. I am not going into the business of selling counterfeit Colt M16 clones. As long as I am not trying to sell any Colt marked rifles as Colts, I can put any darned thing I want to on the receiver (I checked with an attorney.)

July 28, 2018, 08:11 AM	#7
ttarp Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2013 Posts: 888	Brownells recently started selling several retro models.

July 28, 2018, 10:57 AM	#9
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	Brownell's has retro style... Different models for different periods, from the very first release, through the changes into the 70s. They went through great trouble to even replicate the small parts and their details, not just use modern versions. They also recreate the old receivers and not use a modern type. So you will get non captured pins and the old triangle shaped charging handle and old style receivers... They don't come too cheap though, starting around $1100 or so.

July 28, 2018, 06:14 PM	#13
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Without the full-auto happy switch selector, all they are is a phoney copy. Better to clone a semi-auto only U.S. Army SDMR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...Marksman_Rifle That way you can get all the REAL parts to a USGI weapon, making it all but identical to the real deal minus markings, AND you get a better semi-auto shooter with more accuracy and range than any "M16A1-A2" wannabe.

July 28, 2018, 08:03 PM	#15
Reloadron Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2016 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs Posts: 1,750	A Google of "retro ar parts for sale" will get you plenty of hits *like this one*. You also, as mentioned, want to checkout Brownells for their retro line. All of my AR rifles are about as plain as can be, no frills. Left to right a pair of Colt SP1 rifles, a Colt sporter target, a mixmaster I put together which actually shoots really well and is my only scoped AR, my Armalite early AR 10T. You can buy a Colt SP1 for about $1500 or just roll your own for much less. Ron

July 28, 2018, 09:36 PM	#17
CockNBama Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2014 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 206	I'd rather have the poncho liner.

July 28, 2018, 11:54 PM	#18
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	I want the sleeping bag system... I am interested in the brownells retro... Maybe the first main issue version, or possibly the original airforce version ... Not sure. But first I need to get an A2 clone, or an A4 depending on availability. As I was issued an A2 in the service, so I want a full size rifle in the collection.

July 30, 2018, 06:13 PM	#19
Road_Clam Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2013 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,695	I have a mint Colt 20" A2 upper would love to swap out to the 60's type triangular handguard. Can you buy this handguard setup anywhere as a swap ? __________________ "To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"

July 30, 2018, 06:23 PM	#20
Reloadron Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2016 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs Posts: 1,750	Yes, Brownell's among other sources. *AR-15 RETRO HANDGUARD SETS*. You can buy handguards and entire kits. Ron

August 1, 2018, 06:07 PM	#21
44caliberkid Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2017 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,102	I got one of the dewatt M16 parts kits, from Israeli contract M16's of the 1970's. Just like what I carried in the Army. Used an Anderson lower, a generic carry handle upper. I also needed a new barrel of the correct profile. It went together great. I had a unit decal from my time in service, that I scanned, color copied on a piece of adhesive backed paper, and stuck it on the butt stock. Those kits have dried up but you see one on GunBroker occasionally, prices have doubled or tripled. Now you would pay more for just the butt stock and handguard than I paid for the whole kit.