The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 11, 2018, 02:44 AM   #1
Spur0701
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2005
Posts: 200
Backhoe or Bucket Teeth as a Reactive Target

I remember shooting an IPSC match somewhere way back in the day where as part of the course of fire there were several used bucket teeth at something like 50 yards that you had to get a number of hits on with an AR....they made a good ping when hit. Before I try to source some anyone have any experience with them, are they hard enough to stand up to say M193 for long enough to be a good cost effective reactive target?
Spur0701 is offline  
Old August 11, 2018, 06:59 AM   #2
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: McMurdo Sound Texas
Posts: 3,378
Yes on the teeth. (Or ricochet back at you or the observers.)
__________________
!أنا لست إرهابياً
TXAZ is offline  
Old August 11, 2018, 09:37 AM   #3
kenny53
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2015
Location: My back yard
Posts: 470
I would think they would do alright. I would be worried about ricochets. If you are going to buy them I would only get a couple to start off. Just to see how they hold up.
kenny53 is offline  
Old August 11, 2018, 09:50 AM   #4
David R
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2015
Location: The swamps of WNY
Posts: 476
How are you going to hold them?

David
David R is offline  
Old August 11, 2018, 11:18 AM   #5
AK103K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Posts: 9,720
Quote:
I would think they would do alright. I would be worried about ricochets. If you are going to buy them I would only get a couple to start off. Just to see how they hold up.
I think they'd probably hold up alright too. They are pretty hard. I too think Id be a little leary about ricochets.

I take it youre interested in the larger teeth, the ones used on the bigger track hoes?

If youre looking for them, Id check out some local excavating companies. I work for one, and we go through them pretty regularly. They weigh a good bit, even when worn, and usually go into the scrap bin that goes to the scrap yard.

Quote:
How are you going to hold them?
I would assume you'd suspend them by a cable or something similar. They have holes through them for the locking keys you can attach them with.
__________________
"If the rule you followed brought you to this,
of what use was the rule?"

“The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on.” - Joseph Heller
AK103K is offline  
Old August 11, 2018, 04:52 PM   #6
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: McMurdo Sound Texas
Posts: 3,378
50 yards, is really close for a ricochet, as you only have about 1/4 second from trigger to 'ouch', not enough to hear it coming with a handgun or rifle.
__________________
!أنا لست إرهابياً
TXAZ is offline  
Old August 11, 2018, 07:47 PM   #7
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 9,647
Why do people insist on shooting steel targets?
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old August 11, 2018, 09:06 PM   #8
LineStretcher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2018
Posts: 240
If you're going to buy them you better have deep pockets. They are high carbon hardened steel. You cant hurt them with a bullet. Steel targets are not my favorite.
LineStretcher is offline  
Old August 11, 2018, 09:14 PM   #9
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 5,035
I really don't like the idea, I'm not sure if the steel would be a great plan.
__________________
None.
briandg is offline  
Old August 11, 2018, 09:39 PM   #10
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 5,035
In any case, they seem to be pretty easy to come by.

https://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/...4KQSCI18024006

and they would be happy to help you.


__________________
None.
briandg is offline  
Old August 12, 2018, 07:13 AM   #11
Mobuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 6,341
Shooting a rifle bullet at something like a digger tooth is likely to result in bullet fragmentation and/or ricochets at unexpected angles. Poor choice in my book.
Mobuck is offline  
Old August 12, 2018, 09:09 AM   #12
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: McMurdo Sound Texas
Posts: 3,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobuck View Post
Shooting a rifle bullet at something like a digger tooth is likely to result in bullet fragmentation and/or ricochets at unexpected angles. Poor choice in my book.
^^^^^^
Even an AP round will ricochet:



While the Volvo engine's crankshaft took the worst of it, it did try to return this one to the sender.

Don't be there if it does.
__________________
!أنا لست إرهابياً
TXAZ is offline  
Old August 12, 2018, 03:26 PM   #13
Archie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 26, 2000
Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear
Posts: 2,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Deshivs
Why do people insist on shooting steel targets?
My reasons are:
Information of hit or miss is positive and immediate.
No resetting of targets are needed. (Competition mostly, but also applies to verifying sight settings on rifles or handguns of less than pin point adjustment - like battle sight settings, or specific setting for specific distance targets like High Power Rifle).

Not suited for:
Initial sight in for just about anything. (For first time sight in, I prefer a paper target to show miss impacts, about 12 ft by 12 ft at about 25 yards).

Measuring (hopefully) little tiny groups at specific distances. One cannot measure a bench rest rifle adequately.

Shooting on an indoor or other concrete floored/walled ranges. The fragmented bullets are subject to 'secondary splatter' or ricochet.

Shooting anywhere another firing line or pedestrians are on line with the place of the target face. Specifically two 'bays' separated by a barricade of some type.
__________________
There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus.
Archie

Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/
Archie is offline  
Old August 12, 2018, 07:01 PM   #14
kenny53
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2015
Location: My back yard
Posts: 470
If I shoot steel I prefer it to be at least 100 yards.
kenny53 is offline  
Old August 12, 2018, 08:28 PM   #15
GarandTd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2016
Location: Western PA
Posts: 848
Ar500 targets aren't that expensive unless you get into really big ones or silhouettes. I like shooting at steel, but I prefer flat steel hanging or angled downward. I would be Leary of shooting at bucket teeth for reasons already mentioned.
__________________
22lr, 20 gauge, 8mm Mauser, 35 Remington, 30-06, 9mm, 380acp
GarandTd is online now  
Old August 12, 2018, 11:18 PM   #16
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: McMurdo Sound Texas
Posts: 3,378
In a (you pick the round / rifle) shootout with the hardened backhoe tooth mentioned above, I’m willing to bet no rounds (hopefully fired from a safe distance) would penetrate a backhoe tooth.
(With possibly an exception to a .50 Mk211 Raufoss, but those are few and far between )
__________________
!أنا لست إرهابياً
TXAZ is offline  
Old August 13, 2018, 12:03 AM   #17
Lucas McCain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 7, 2013
Location: Callaway, MN
Posts: 351
a Worn bucket tooth is worn round, allowing a ricochet from many different angles. I think that would be an unsafe target. Just my 2 cents.
__________________
If you have time to do it twice, then you have time to do it once right and put your name on it
Lucas McCain is offline  
Old August 13, 2018, 09:07 AM   #18
Fishbed77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 4,412
Quote:
Why do people insist on shooting steel targets?
Because a properly designed and mounted steel target is safe when used in the correct parameters, is reusable, provides instant feedback, and doesn't require constant set-up.

They are not a solution for all shooting needs, but excel in some.

With the availability and relatively low cost of proper AR500 steel targets, however, I wouldn't bother with questionable targets like bucket teeth.
Fishbed77 is offline  
Old August 13, 2018, 02:10 PM   #19
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 20,113
Ricochets, sparks and wildfires comes to mind.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old August 14, 2018, 06:34 AM   #20
Mobuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 6,341
I've been shooting the same 10" x 10" 3/8" thick chunk of cold rolled plate for years. It's set @ 300 meters and shows lots of dings from small caliber (.223) FMJ and full on dents from .308 along with some holes made by 7mm and 300 magnums. It hangs with a slight downward tilt on 2' chains with a railroad tie containment behind it. I've never had a "whizzer" escape this set-up.
The steel is pockmarked over most of the face but that's no issue @ such range. When shooting it over snow, I don't see any "bounce back".
I accept that sooner or later, the target will become unusable but it's easily replaceable. I did purchase an AR 500 1/2"thick 8" diameter plate for a future 200 yard location. At 200 yards many of our hunting rounds would penetrate common plate.
FWIW The common plate targets are less likely to spark.
Mobuck is offline  
Old August 16, 2018, 12:50 AM   #21
Cosmodragoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2013
Location: Northeastern US
Posts: 1,413
Quote:
Why do people insist on shooting steel targets?
Because they go "ping".
Cosmodragoon is offline  
Old August 16, 2018, 07:37 AM   #22
jmorris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 2006
Posts: 2,958
Lots of wear surfaces on digging equipment is AR steel.

You just need flat steel, that stays flat shooting it.

Lots of people sell AR500 targets in lots of different shapes. No need to reinvent the wheel, so to speak.

Steel is fun. It’s a reactive target that doesn’t need to be taped up or replaced.

Hang or from a chain, pendulum, rack, Texas star.

I really enjoy it, that’s why I use it.

can’t get paper to do this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02FNsp4-6NQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIOcNNcLxnU

Last edited by jmorris; August 16, 2018 at 07:42 AM.
jmorris is offline  
Old August 16, 2018, 03:39 PM   #23
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2002
Location: alaska
Posts: 3,409
Maybe a good idea, but I would do it only if the target can be set up so that the only ricochets will angle down into the ground.

I would think an old propane tank would do the job just as well though.
Rounds will penetrate the propane tank though.
__________________
"Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard
spacemanspiff is offline  
Old August 16, 2018, 11:00 PM   #24
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: McMurdo Sound Texas
Posts: 3,378
The good news spaceman, is that physics helps most careful shooters out with safety with steel targets.
At the short range of 100 yards, the bullet likely has a very small downward trajectory angle. The reflection off the steel target should be ~~ double that angle down.

As many of the steel targets are hung by the backside, this alone also provides a slight tilt of a few degrees. So unless the bullet is angling up and the plate is perfectly vertical or even slightly tilted up, the bullet should, if fully reflected back towards the shooter, hit the ground first.

And if you watch vertically hung steel targets at say 300 yards, you'll see the bullets still hit the ground closer to the front of the target than to the shooter.
__________________
!أنا لست إرهابياً
TXAZ is offline  
Old August 17, 2018, 08:41 AM   #25
Cosmodragoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2013
Location: Northeastern US
Posts: 1,413
You want appropriate steel that's not too beat up and as others have said, you want it angled to project ricochets and shrapnel downward into the ground. Shoot from far enough back to minimize risk. Just remember that you are smashing things into each other at high speeds so there is always some risk. I've had tiny but surprising bits of stuff bounce off my safety glasses even with other precautions followed. So for Pete's sake, always wear safety glasses!
Cosmodragoon is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10958 seconds with 11 queries