7.62.25 VS 9mm Luger

Constantine1911 · January 6, 2008, 06:19 PM

Which is a better defence round?

Army GI · January 6, 2008, 06:37 PM

Flip a coin.

kozak6 · January 6, 2008, 06:44 PM

Depends on the individual load and circumstances.

Constantine1911 · January 6, 2008, 06:46 PM

Flip a coin, good one.

Army GI · January 6, 2008, 07:04 PM

Seriously, they are both good rounds. I'm a fan of the 7.62, personally. My other favorite is the 45 ACP (no middle ground for me).

7.62 is actually quite deadly, especially when loaded with hollow point bullets. Unfortunately, you are limited in gun selection. On the other hand, the 9mm is the most boring cartridge ever (after .22LR) but it is effective, prolific, and there are hundreds of handgun options out there compared to only two for the 7.62.

Constantine1911 · January 6, 2008, 07:09 PM

I know this is kinda off subject but out of: Star modelo Super, Cz52, Star BM. Which would you choose for the best home defence?

w_houle · January 6, 2008, 07:13 PM

The thing that I remember hearing a lot is that the .30 Tokarev has the same recoil characteristics as the 9x19 but yet has a muzzle energy similar to the .357

Constantine1911 · January 6, 2008, 07:18 PM

By .30 Tokarev do you mean 7.62.25?

OldShooter · January 6, 2008, 07:56 PM

A lot of folks use "Tokarev" interchangeably with 7.62x25, which is a .30 caliber round. The 7.62x25 is a fairly high velocity handgun round which equates to a lot of penetration potential. I'd go with a 9mm or .45ACP.

Constantine1911 · January 6, 2008, 08:04 PM

Ok so is .30 Tokarev a bullet that can be fired without modification or does it need something done first?

Manedwolf · January 6, 2008, 10:22 PM

7.62x25 is indeed quite the penetrator. It's a bottleneck round that leaves in excess of 1600fps, and ball can bust a current K-pot helmet, sailing happily through it. This, of course, makes that caliber's ball unsuited to defense outside a war, as it could also overpenetrate and endanger bystanders.

There's hollowpoint, but good luck finding a gun to shoot it in. You have a choice of the CZ-52, an overly complicated and clunky range toy with a lethally flawed decocker design that could kill someone, a gun totally unsuited to be carried even in its size....or you have the Tokarev TT-33 (the flimsy Norinco copy need not even apply), which, though slim and excellent for concealed carry, only has vestigial sights and absolutely no form of safety whatsoever; it can only be safely carried unchambered. Period. And neither are drop-safe.

There's also the issue of muzzleflash, which is extreme on current loadings, but that could be fixed with different powders, likely. Basically, the drawback is that nobody makes a modern doublestack semiauto for it!

Constantine1911 · January 6, 2008, 10:33 PM

Ok so 9mm would be the best choice then. I hope I can ask another question in this thread withoud needing to change threads so here it goes: 9mm Luger or 9mm Largo? Simple, this or that, has anyone had misfires with the surplus 9Largo?

Boris Bush · January 6, 2008, 11:22 PM

Manedwolf

The CZ-52 has a firingpin block, it only moves far enough to set off a primer if the trigger is pulled..

Constantine1911 · January 6, 2008, 11:23 PM

So in other words the Cz52 safety is not a good one?

landsman · January 6, 2008, 11:29 PM

Manedwolf, What's wrong with Norinco copy of TT33 in 7.62x25? As far as know, it's made out of forged steel. Why is it flimsy? I do not own one but I'm considering it. May you know something I don't.

Manedwolf · January 6, 2008, 11:32 PM

landsman,

I've just heard from too many people who had their Norincos literally come apart after being shot for a while, so I don't know. I have both a Soviet 1946 and a Polish Radom 1952, and both are extremely solid. I've picked up one of the Norinco copies, and the weight and parts fit just weren't of the same "heavy iron eastern bloc" solid feel. YMMV.

Several places in Shotgun News have the Polish TT's for about $250, I really like that one myself.

Constantine1911 · January 6, 2008, 11:47 PM

Ok forget the 7.62.25 guns and round since they are causing all the yes no yes no maybe yes no. Could you answer this for me please, I will be buying a gun tomorrow and from all the replies I have taken in the Cz52 or the Tokarev are great but not great for a house gun. And i am going to answer a question ahead of time since someone will probably ask it: yes I know the guns I have listed in my signature will ''do the job'' but I try to buy guns I am confident will ''pack a punch'', that is why you wont see any small caliber guns listed under my name: because i dont own any. Back to the question at hand, Out of the Star Super 9mm Largo and the Star BM 9mm Luger which one would you buy for a ''dresser gun'' ?

landsman · January 6, 2008, 11:56 PM

Thanks Wolf. I'll look into the Polish TT's.

Constantine1911 · January 7, 2008, 12:01 AM

The comment I posted above might not have made a lot of cents since the guns arent listed in a signature on this forum. They are Kimber Custom II, Charter Arms Undercover, Glock 22, Magtech 151.

IdahoG36 · January 7, 2008, 12:04 AM

Neither of them.

Constantine1911 · January 7, 2008, 12:16 AM

Neither the Star super or Star bm?

Manedwolf · January 7, 2008, 12:30 AM

Not really. Interesting to have and neat range toys, but you're still limited to old surplus and Spanish market rounds for the most part, or expensive ammo, which limits your practice. And the Largo doesn't really improve on the 9mm, it's just a hell of a lot more expensive.

If you want a 9mm for a nightstand gun, you'd be better off buying a used SIG 226 or Taurus PT-92 and practicing lots with it, IMO. There are Stars in regular 9mm, but since Star is gone, good luck finding replacement parts!

IdahoG36 · January 7, 2008, 12:50 AM

If you want a 9mm that "packs a punch", look into getting a .357 Sig. 125gr 9mm projectile at 1400fps.

landsman · January 7, 2008, 12:58 AM

I shot my friend's .357 Sig, I did not like it. The recoil is very sharp and I had to readjust my grip on every shot, and I'm not recoil shy. The gun was a full size Sig, I forget which model. But I agree that .357 Sig is a very deadly round with good penetration.

Constantine1911 · January 7, 2008, 01:40 AM

Ok ill checko out what all they got in, in the morning. I think i might lean toward the Star bm since it's $215 and fires 9Luger.

January 6, 2008, 06:19 PM	#1
Constantine1911 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2008 Posts: 153	7.62.25 VS 9mm Luger Which is a better defence round?

January 6, 2008, 07:13 PM	#7
w_houle Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2007 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,391	The thing that I remember hearing a lot is that the .30 Tokarev has the same recoil characteristics as the 9x19 but yet has a muzzle energy similar to the .357 __________________ How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished? Last edited by w_houle; January 6, 2008 at 07:13 PM. Reason: oops

January 6, 2008, 07:56 PM	#9
OldShooter Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2006 Location: Maine Posts: 846	762x25 vs 9mm A lot of folks use "Tokarev" interchangeably with 7.62x25, which is a .30 caliber round. The 7.62x25 is a fairly high velocity handgun round which equates to a lot of penetration potential. I'd go with a 9mm or .45ACP.

January 6, 2008, 06:37 PM	#2
Army GI Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2006 Posts: 284	Flip a coin.

January 6, 2008, 06:44 PM	#3
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	Depends on the individual load and circumstances.

January 6, 2008, 06:46 PM	#4
Constantine1911 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2008 Posts: 153	Flip a coin, good one.

January 6, 2008, 07:04 PM	#5
Army GI Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2006 Posts: 284	Seriously, they are both good rounds. I'm a fan of the 7.62, personally. My other favorite is the 45 ACP (no middle ground for me). 7.62 is actually quite deadly, especially when loaded with hollow point bullets. Unfortunately, you are limited in gun selection. On the other hand, the 9mm is the most boring cartridge ever (after .22LR) but it is effective, prolific, and there are hundreds of handgun options out there compared to only two for the 7.62.

January 6, 2008, 07:09 PM	#6
Constantine1911 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2008 Posts: 153	I know this is kinda off subject but out of: Star modelo Super, Cz52, Star BM. Which would you choose for the best home defence?

January 6, 2008, 07:18 PM	#8
Constantine1911 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2008 Posts: 153	By .30 Tokarev do you mean 7.62.25?

January 6, 2008, 08:04 PM	#10
Constantine1911 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2008 Posts: 153	Ok so is .30 Tokarev a bullet that can be fired without modification or does it need something done first?

January 6, 2008, 10:22 PM	#11
Manedwolf Junior member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Posts: 3,266	7.62x25 is indeed quite the penetrator. It's a bottleneck round that leaves in excess of 1600fps, and ball can bust a current K-pot helmet, sailing happily through it. This, of course, makes that caliber's ball unsuited to defense outside a war, as it could also overpenetrate and endanger bystanders. There's hollowpoint, but good luck finding a gun to shoot it in. You have a choice of the CZ-52, an overly complicated and clunky range toy with a lethally flawed decocker design that could kill someone, a gun totally unsuited to be carried even in its size....or you have the Tokarev TT-33 (the flimsy Norinco copy need not even apply), which, though slim and excellent for concealed carry, only has vestigial sights and absolutely no form of safety whatsoever; it can only be safely carried unchambered. Period. And neither are drop-safe. There's also the issue of muzzleflash, which is extreme on current loadings, but that could be fixed with different powders, likely. Basically, the drawback is that nobody makes a modern doublestack semiauto for it!

January 6, 2008, 10:33 PM	#12
Constantine1911 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2008 Posts: 153	Ok so 9mm would be the best choice then. I hope I can ask another question in this thread withoud needing to change threads so here it goes: 9mm Luger or 9mm Largo? Simple, this or that, has anyone had misfires with the surplus 9Largo?

January 6, 2008, 11:22 PM	#13
Boris Bush Junior member Join Date: September 7, 2007 Posts: 921	Manedwolf The CZ-52 has a firingpin block, it only moves far enough to set off a primer if the trigger is pulled..

January 6, 2008, 11:23 PM	#14
Constantine1911 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2008 Posts: 153	So in other words the Cz52 safety is not a good one?

January 6, 2008, 11:29 PM	#15
landsman Member Join Date: October 27, 2007 Posts: 47	Manedwolf, What's wrong with Norinco copy of TT33 in 7.62x25? As far as know, it's made out of forged steel. Why is it flimsy? I do not own one but I'm considering it. May you know something I don't.

January 6, 2008, 11:32 PM	#16
Manedwolf Junior member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Posts: 3,266	landsman, I've just heard from too many people who had their Norincos literally come apart after being shot for a while, so I don't know. I have both a Soviet 1946 and a Polish Radom 1952, and both are extremely solid. I've picked up one of the Norinco copies, and the weight and parts fit just weren't of the same "heavy iron eastern bloc" solid feel. YMMV. Several places in Shotgun News have the Polish TT's for about $250, I really like that one myself.

January 6, 2008, 11:47 PM	#17
Constantine1911 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2008 Posts: 153	Ok forget the 7.62.25 guns and round since they are causing all the yes no yes no maybe yes no. Could you answer this for me please, I will be buying a gun tomorrow and from all the replies I have taken in the Cz52 or the Tokarev are great but not great for a house gun. And i am going to answer a question ahead of time since someone will probably ask it: yes I know the guns I have listed in my signature will ''do the job'' but I try to buy guns I am confident will ''pack a punch'', that is why you wont see any small caliber guns listed under my name: because i dont own any. Back to the question at hand, Out of the Star Super 9mm Largo and the Star BM 9mm Luger which one would you buy for a ''dresser gun'' ?

January 6, 2008, 11:56 PM	#18
landsman Member Join Date: October 27, 2007 Posts: 47	Thanks Wolf. I'll look into the Polish TT's.

January 7, 2008, 12:01 AM	#19
Constantine1911 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2008 Posts: 153	The comment I posted above might not have made a lot of cents since the guns arent listed in a signature on this forum. They are Kimber Custom II, Charter Arms Undercover, Glock 22, Magtech 151.

January 7, 2008, 12:04 AM	#20
IdahoG36 Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 2,993	Neither of them.

January 7, 2008, 12:16 AM	#21
Constantine1911 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2008 Posts: 153	Neither the Star super or Star bm?

January 7, 2008, 12:30 AM	#22
Manedwolf Junior member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Posts: 3,266	Not really. Interesting to have and neat range toys, but you're still limited to old surplus and Spanish market rounds for the most part, or expensive ammo, which limits your practice. And the Largo doesn't really improve on the 9mm, it's just a hell of a lot more expensive. If you want a 9mm for a nightstand gun, you'd be better off buying a used SIG 226 or Taurus PT-92 and practicing lots with it, IMO. There are Stars in regular 9mm, but since Star is gone, good luck finding replacement parts!

January 7, 2008, 12:50 AM	#23
IdahoG36 Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 2,993	If you want a 9mm that "packs a punch", look into getting a .357 Sig. 125gr 9mm projectile at 1400fps.

January 7, 2008, 12:58 AM	#24
landsman Member Join Date: October 27, 2007 Posts: 47	I shot my friend's .357 Sig, I did not like it. The recoil is very sharp and I had to readjust my grip on every shot, and I'm not recoil shy. The gun was a full size Sig, I forget which model. But I agree that .357 Sig is a very deadly round with good penetration.

January 7, 2008, 01:40 AM	#25
Constantine1911 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2008 Posts: 153	Ok ill checko out what all they got in, in the morning. I think i might lean toward the Star bm since it's $215 and fires 9Luger.