Subsonic 45-70 loads

Tex S · January 9, 2012, 10:09 PM

Never tried any subsonic loads before... not in any of my guns. I had a few questions that y'all might be able to help me with.

1) how loud would a subsonic load be out of a 32"bbl?

2) is there any specific dangers I need to look out for? I don't wanna stick a bullet in my bbl

3) looks like trail boss would be good to try. What do you think?

hk33ka1 · January 9, 2012, 10:18 PM

My ffG BP loads are subsonic and pretty loud.

I bought a .457" round ball mold to try this with pistol powder or trailboss but haven't loaded any yet.

Brian Pfleuger · January 9, 2012, 10:38 PM

Yep, Trail Boss is what I was thinking when I saw the thread title.

There are two sources of noise in gunfire. Sonic boom from the bullet and muzzle blast.

Obviously, subsonic loads take care of sonic boom.

Muzzle pressure is the largest source of the noise from the barrel.

Trail Boss solves that issue because it burns so fast that the muzzle pressure is DRAMATICALLY lower than virtually any other powder. In fact, it burns 100% virtually before the bullet moves, in most cases. Really, only small charges of handgun powders can match it.

I've used Trail Boss in 204Ruger and 7mm-08. The 204 literally (I mean literally) sounds like a cap gun... and that's with a muzzle velocity of 2,200fps.
The 7-08 is still somewhat loud but this is with a 15" barrel. A rifle would be no louder than a 22, I'd bet.

With a 32" barrel it should REALLY be quiet.

totaldla · January 10, 2012, 12:25 AM

Go to http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm for information.

Jim Watson · January 10, 2012, 12:29 AM

1. Louder than you think. It is still a gunshot.

2. If you get below the charts a stuck bullet is a real possibility. Be sure you hit the target (or somewhere) every shot.

3. Trail Boss tops out around 1000 fps and would be a natural for elementary subsonics.

hornetguy · January 10, 2012, 01:09 AM

I think Paco Kelly wrote an article about really quiet loads for the 45-70. You might google that to see. As I recall, he said they were very quiet, and would still thump a coyote at fairly close ranges. He's written MANY articles about most calibers, and is a hoot to read.

hornetguy · January 10, 2012, 01:16 AM

Here's a link to an article by Beagle... (John Goins)

http://hgmould.gunloads.com/casting/whisperloads.htm

DaleA · January 10, 2012, 02:27 AM

Hornetguy - thanks for the link.

Tex S · January 10, 2012, 12:06 PM

Looks like W231 is a useable powder. This is awesome because I have 7 lbs of it!!!

hornetguy · January 10, 2012, 12:36 PM

You are probably aware of this, but a lot of people recommend using some sort of filler, like dacron pillow stuffing, to help hold the powder against the flash hole of the case, when using very small charges of powder in a big case.
My standard load for my 45-70 is 15gr of Unique under a 405gr HB cast bullet, which is a pretty small load for the case. I don't use any filler on it at all, and it works VERY well.
However, if I was going to work up some really light loads, using 4 or 5gr of 231 or Bullseye, I'm pretty sure I'd use the dacron filler.

Just a thought.

Tex S · January 10, 2012, 06:59 PM

Dacron pillow stuffing??? I guess that is the white cotton-like material?

**Tom Servo** · January 10, 2012, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Looks like W231 is a useable powder. This is awesome because I have 7 lbs of it!

So do I. It also occurs to me that I have a Marlin guide gun I'm not using much, and a way of getting a suppressor at wholesale.

The wheels are turning...

hornetguy · January 10, 2012, 11:11 PM

hornetguy · January 10, 2012, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Dacron pillow stuffing??? I guess that is the white cotton-like material?

Yes... that's correct.

I don't know what happened to the message in the above post..

Tex S · January 22, 2012, 08:29 PM

Is there any particular method for measuring the pillow stuffing? How do you determine how much to use?

warningshot · January 23, 2012, 05:51 AM

What was that OP oringinal 1st question again? I couln't hear it.

January 9, 2012, 10:09 PM	#1
Tex S Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TEXAS Posts: 909	Subsonic 45-70 loads Never tried any subsonic loads before... not in any of my guns. I had a few questions that y'all might be able to help me with. 1) how loud would a subsonic load be out of a 32"bbl? 2) is there any specific dangers I need to look out for? I don't wanna stick a bullet in my bbl 3) looks like trail boss would be good to try. What do you think?

January 10, 2012, 12:25 AM	#4
totaldla Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2009 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 1,289	Go to http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm for information. __________________ Lee Auto Bench Prime Castor Oil Case Lube

January 10, 2012, 01:09 AM	#6
hornetguy Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2011 Location: on the north side of DFW Posts: 970	I think Paco Kelly wrote an article about really quiet loads for the 45-70. You might google that to see. As I recall, he said they were very quiet, and would still thump a coyote at fairly close ranges. He's written MANY articles about most calibers, and is a hoot to read. __________________ I always felt that if I got to the point where I thought it was time to bury my firearms, it was actually time to pick them up..

January 10, 2012, 01:16 AM	#7
hornetguy Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2011 Location: on the north side of DFW Posts: 970	Here's a link to an article by Beagle... (John Goins) http://hgmould.gunloads.com/casting/whisperloads.htm __________________ I always felt that if I got to the point where I thought it was time to bury my firearms, it was actually time to pick them up..

January 10, 2012, 12:36 PM	#10
hornetguy Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2011 Location: on the north side of DFW Posts: 970	You are probably aware of this, but a lot of people recommend using some sort of filler, like dacron pillow stuffing, to help hold the powder against the flash hole of the case, when using very small charges of powder in a big case. My standard load for my 45-70 is 15gr of Unique under a 405gr HB cast bullet, which is a pretty small load for the case. I don't use any filler on it at all, and it works VERY well. However, if I was going to work up some really light loads, using 4 or 5gr of 231 or Bullseye, I'm pretty sure I'd use the dacron filler. Just a thought. __________________ I always felt that if I got to the point where I thought it was time to bury my firearms, it was actually time to pick them up..

January 9, 2012, 10:18 PM	#2
hk33ka1 Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2010 Posts: 275	My ffG BP loads are subsonic and pretty loud. I bought a .457" round ball mold to try this with pistol powder or trailboss but haven't loaded any yet.

January 9, 2012, 10:38 PM	#3
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Yep, Trail Boss is what I was thinking when I saw the thread title. There are two sources of noise in gunfire. Sonic boom from the bullet and muzzle blast. Obviously, subsonic loads take care of sonic boom. Muzzle pressure is the largest source of the noise from the barrel. Trail Boss solves that issue because it burns so fast that the muzzle pressure is DRAMATICALLY lower than virtually any other powder. In fact, it burns 100% virtually before the bullet moves, in most cases. Really, only small charges of handgun powders can match it. I've used Trail Boss in 204Ruger and 7mm-08. The 204 literally (I mean literally) sounds like a cap gun... and that's with a muzzle velocity of 2,200fps. The 7-08 is still somewhat loud but this is with a 15" barrel. A rifle would be no louder than a 22, I'd bet. With a 32" barrel it should REALLY be quiet.

January 10, 2012, 12:29 AM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	1. Louder than you think. It is still a gunshot. 2. If you get below the charts a stuck bullet is a real possibility. Be sure you hit the target (or somewhere) every shot. 3. Trail Boss tops out around 1000 fps and would be a natural for elementary subsonics.

January 10, 2012, 02:27 AM	#8
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,312	Hornetguy - thanks for the link.

January 10, 2012, 12:06 PM	#9
Tex S Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TEXAS Posts: 909	Looks like W231 is a useable powder. This is awesome because I have 7 lbs of it!!!

January 10, 2012, 06:59 PM	#11
Tex S Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TEXAS Posts: 909	Dacron pillow stuffing??? I guess that is the white cotton-like material?

January 10, 2012, 11:11 PM	#13
hornetguy Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2011 Location: on the north side of DFW Posts: 970	__________________ I always felt that if I got to the point where I thought it was time to bury my firearms, it was actually time to pick them up..

January 22, 2012, 08:29 PM	#15
Tex S Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TEXAS Posts: 909	Is there any particular method for measuring the pillow stuffing? How do you determine how much to use?

January 23, 2012, 05:51 AM	#16
warningshot Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2009 Posts: 995	What was that OP oringinal 1st question again? I couln't hear it.

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