Garand fail to feed 2nd round

[Clark500]

I went to the range today (really cold!) and tested 40 rounds of reloads for functionality/accuracy. The second round (and only the second round) in each clip failed to feed. Cycling the action manually after the FTF chambered the round and everything operated as normal until the second round of the next clip. This makes me think there is some mechanical problem with the weapon. The powder charge in each 8-round clip was incrementally larger than the previous one, so I am not suspecting a low powder charge. I tried to call the good folks at the CMP, but they seem to be closed for the Holidays. Any thoughts?

[MacGyver]

I assume this was the first time you've shot the rifle? If it is consistently ftf'ing on just the second round it sounds like there is just enough friction building up that the bolt can't overcome. I've had that problem with full magazines in gas operated rifles before but never on my M-1. How are you lubricating/greasing the action?

[Clark500]

This is not my first time shooting this rifle. It fired factory HXP ammo flawlessly. I didn't have any factory ammo with me on this trip. I wish I had, as that would have ruled out a variable.

I previosly had feed issues in this rifle with reloads from the low end of the Hornady guide. However, they appeared randomly. I may have had a problem with every second round then as well, but that pattern could have been lost to me amongst the other failures.

I lube according to the manual with Tetra grease.

[MGMike]

If the rifle functions flawlessly with HXP, there is nothing wrong with the gun; there is something wrong with your handloads.

Probably it occurs only on the 2d round in each clip because you are loading the top round manually, and the 2d round is the first one that depends on semi-auto operation. That is the cartridge that is under the greatest follower pressure and offers the greatest resistance to stripping out. Bolt energy probably is marginal with your loads.

M

[kraigwy]

Check your reloads with a Case Gage, (Wilson, Dillon, RCBS, etc). Sounds like you didn't set the shoulder back far enough on the brass when you sized the case.

Gas guns are picky about this, you should ALWAYS use a case gage when setting up your seating die when loading for gas guns.

[NYPD13]

Silly question, do your reloads use hollow or soft point bullets? Unlike the milspec spitzer bullets, they may be hanging up on the feed ramps.

[wogpotter]

I'm sticking to powder issues here as all the other possibles listed would be with all rounds, not just #2.

Powder type may be causing issues rather than powder volume. The Garand is kind of well known for needing powders with a specific burn rate to generate the right port pressure to cycle the action, regardless of muzzle velocity obtained, or charge weight used.

Also you say it was very cold. Could your load have been worked up in high(er) summer temps & be dropping off in energy because of the cold?

[langenc]

Is it picking the cartridge up at all?? Or is it a failure to go into battery (bolt fully closed)?

Faiulure to pick up cartridge up at all will have nothing to do with the shoulder being off a few thousands.

Not ehough powder and maybe the bolt didnt go back quite far enough to pick up the next round.

[Clark500]

Well, let's see if I can answer these in order...

I do use a case gauge. All cases were within spec.

The bullets are FMJ.

I use load data from the Hornady manual specifically for the Garand, so I assume it shouldn't be a powder choice issue.

It does not pick up the second round at all.

[Avenger]

Sounds silly, but are you sure the gas plug is tight? I had one work just loose enough to vent a bit of pressure, but not enough to be obviously loose when checked. It caused random failure-to-cycle issues that drove me INSANE before I noticed it while cleaning.

[Clark500]

Just checked the gas plug - it is tight.

[wogpotter]

Do you have any of the "target clips" (the modified ones that take 5 rounds)?
If so does the same thing happen with them?
I'm guessing here but could something in the lever/spring geometry of the riser be causing a binding problem. a 5-round clip would have different follower positioning & eliminate all the stuff down there as a possible problem.

[Clark500]

That would definitely be something to help troubleshoot as it would take one more variable out. Unfortunately, all I have are 8-round clips.

[Howard31]

Important question.Is the bolt behind the top round as though it is trying to push the round out of the clip and into the chamber or has the bolt closed over top of the round in the clip ?
The cold could affect the function,such as a marginaly low pressure in your reload,marginally weak spring and cold hard grease.Spring tension decreases with each round you pull out of the clip so it is a marginal problem or else it would show up on the 3-8 th rounds.
Troops at the Bulge and the Chosin ran their guns dry,for a reason. Clean the grease and lube off of the op rod spring and beef up your reloads and make sure the gas plug is tight.

[Clark500]

The bolt fully closes but fails to strip the second round from the magazine. I didn't think of the cold affecting the grease. Good point! I'll have to wait for a warmer day and test your solution.

[Unclenick]

Some Garands are also picky about how the you fill the clips. The staggered column can be loaded so the top round is on the right when you charge the gun or on the left. The correct way, as your HXP arrived, is for the top round, the one you chamber manually, to be on the shooter's right side. The first round stripped semi-automatically then comes up on the left side. This was a problem the military discovered originally. I've forgotten whether or not they fixed it. Either way, the gun clearly favors one arrangement over the other as far as the follower getting the second round pushed up fast enough for the bolt to pick it up. More rounds in the magazine means more mass inertia to overcome in moving the ammunition up.

Howard and Wogpotter beat me to it with the grease. If you've been using the Tetra grease, especially on the op-rod spring, you should have a pretty fair layer of ptfe rubbed into the finish. You should be able to wipe the op-rod spring dry for that reason, and not incur special wear. However, do check that your op-rod is in good condition. They can get soft and bent over time and not push back quite so firmly at the start of the operating cycle.

Next, let me recommend a specific lubricating product that I've been using for about 8 years now. It's a NASA patent lube consisting of an extremely thin penetrating lubricant that bonds to iron, as a number of them will do these days, and that contains an acid-neutralized micronized moly in a colloidal suspension. It is called Plate+ Silver and is sold by Sprinco. It works only on ferrous alloys. In 48-72 hours of submersion the oil bonds to the iron and the moly finds its way into every tiny surface imperfection. It then provides a fairly permanent lubrication that feels dry to the touch and can't be removed even by solvents. Only abrasion that removes the surface metal gets it completely off. Bores treated with it show the same velocity drop you get with moly-coated bullets and it withstands bore temperatures for 1000 rounds or so. Outside the bore it lasts close to indefinitely. I like to reapply it annually, but have no knowledge that I need to. The moly gets into the porous structure of Parkerizing and darkens it during soaking, so prepared for that finish to darken where you use this stuff.

I soak all the Garand moving parts and the un-barreled receiver and the gas cylinder in it these days. I set the op-rod piston-down in a baby food jar. I fill the jar about an inch past the piston (so it will discourage carbon accumulation). I put the op-rod spring into the op-rod and fill the op-rod's spring tunnel with the Plate+ Silver. This all sits for three days. I then reverse the spring to submerge the second half and give it another three days. I then remove the spring and pour the excess liquid from the op-rod tunnel back into its container (it's good until its all soaked up or gone). Same with the jar. I wipe off the piston head and wipe off the spring with a clean rag. I spin the spring coils over a crease in the rag to wipe them dry inside. I usually prop the op-rod up to let excess lubricant run out of the tunnel into the baby food jar. After an hour I wipe the mouth of the tunnel with the rag, including a twisted corner going in a short distance. I then run a clean bore mop into the op-rod tunnel to wipe the excess out. You can can use brake cleaner to take the lube off the mop. Let it dry, then run it in to pick up any left behind.

In the end, I wipe everything off off before final assembly. This lets the gun run dry, but not unlubricated. I had so much trouble with oil getting into the bedding on my first Garand that this drier approach is more attractive, season round. The product is not advertised as a rust inhibitor, so I would not give up wiping exterior surfaces with LPS 2 or Birchwood Casey Sheath or whatever your favorite rust inhibitor is.


P.S. The Hornady manual loads are anemic. If you have a good condition op-rod and receiver and bolt, go to Wolfe Publishing's site and buy a copy of Handloader #114, March-April 1985. It includes an article by John Clark (pp 30-33, & 50) with an extensive list of tested Garand match loads at more normal pressures. Just be aware that 1985 is long enough ago that powders and primers and case capacities by brand have altered since then. I recommend you knock at least 5% and preferably 10% off any load listed there and work it back up while watching for pressure signs and using CCI #34 military-hard primers seated 3-5 thousandths below flush with the case heads.

[Clark500]

UncleNick,

Thanks for all the info.

I had pondered whether I loaded the clips backward as well. I can't say for sure as I fired all the ammo I had loaded and all my evidence is now gone. My usual procedure is to load the first round next to the clip's "nub" or "dimple". This ensures that the first round ends up on the shooter's right. I don't know the exact terminology for this "nub", but I assume it is a tactile device to help load the clip with loose rounds during times of limited visibilty. I believe I followed my normal procedure, but again I can't say with 100% certainty.

You stated that I should check my op-rod and make sure it is in good condition. Is there anything in particular I should be looking for? Unless it is visibly damaged, I'm not sure I would know what to look for.

I ordered a copy of Handloader #114. Thanks for the tip. I am always on the lookout for load data for this rifle. I would particularly like to find published load data utilizing IMR 4064 and 150 grain bullets.

I will do some research on Plate+ Silver and contemplate a future purchase.

[Chris_B]

Just one thing, to reference what Uncle Nick posted.

On the Oprod. He means "bent" as in "bends that aren't supposed to be there". The Oprods have slight kinks in them by design

[Unclenick]

That would be bad, too, but actually what I was referring to is what is called a dead op-rod. The shape is right but the metal has fatigued up near the handle end. If you have the gun out of the stock and you deflect the rod left or right and it doesn't return to position quite right, you need to be looking out for a new rod. You kind of have to see a good one and a bad one side-by-side to know what to look for. Sorry I can't describe it any better than that.

The other problem you run into is that carbon builds up around the end of the rod just behind the stainless piston head. The carbon cake can pick up and hold moisture from the air against the steel and if you remove the carbon you find the steel all pitted pretty thin underneath. That's an area that can actually buckle if it get bad enough. Buckling is usually partial and causes the piston to tilt and scrape against the inside of the gas cylinder.

To remove that carbon for inspection, I pull out the baby food jar again and set the end of the rod in and fill it with Gunzilla until the carbon is covered and wrap some aluminum foil around the top to prevent evaporation and let it sit for a week to soften it.

The other product that gets the carbon off well is Slip 2000's Carbon Killer for gas cylinders. It's quicker, but it does attack and discolor the Parkerizing. I had to apply Oxpho blue to the last one I used that product on.

In the John Clark article, he covers 150 grain bullets using IMR 3031, 4895, and 4320, but not 4064. I ran his other loads in Quickload and averaged velocities and barrel times and muzzle pressures. It looks to me like using a Hornady 150 grain FMJ seated to 3.185" COL (its cannelure at the case mouth) that 49 grains of IMR 4064 will match the performance of his other 150 grain loads pretty well. That charge falls right in the middle of Hodgdon's range of 47.0 to 51.0 grains for that powder with 150 grain bullets in a Winchester cases. LC cases will want about half a grain less powder, but otherwise will be the same. If you are using #34 or other magnum primers, knock the load down to 46.6 grains and work up in 0.3 grain steps using Newberry's round robin to look for a sweet spot in your gun.

[dahermit]

Just to rule it out; If you just neck size your brass instead of full-length sizing, the resulting 8 rounds will be too tight in the en bloc clip. It may cause the condition you posted.