what does everyone use in there HD shotgun? - Page 2

M1911 · August 23, 2009, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Bird shot has its uses

Yes, it does. For birds

Quote:

As far as the OP question goes, 00 buck. In rgards to the poster who keeps a less lethal round as the first one in the gun, I recently spoke with one of our lead Felony intake attorneys in my area (Central Florida...10th Judicial to be exact) in regards to this on behalf of a friend. He reccommended against it legally.

In LFI-1 and 2, Ayoob's recommendation followed that of your attorney friend. Shooting at someone is lethal force. If you are justified in shooting at them, then use standard ammunition. If you are not justified in shooting at them, then don't.

qwik · August 23, 2009, 12:42 PM

Remington 12 gauge, 2 3/4 length, 1200 velocity, 8 pellets, 00bk (managed-recoil buckshot-- lower recoil)

roy reali · August 23, 2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Yes, it does. For birds

So does buckshot, for male deer.

Dave McC · August 23, 2009, 01:41 PM

00, mostly.

One posted 870 has #4 buck in it. Shot opps will be close and level.

BillJunior · August 23, 2009, 01:49 PM

00 Buckshot here as well. Federal 3" Magnum. I use my standard 870 and Mossberg pump.

Edward429451 · August 23, 2009, 02:43 PM

I guess I'm the odd man out. I keep 2 3/4" slugs in & on my short barreled shotty. I lost my confidence in 00 Bucks ability ever since the April 17 1993 shooting of a suspect (Eugene Baylis), who walked into Jim & I's bar with a AK-47 and started shooting people. He killed two IIRC.
Police showed up and shot him with 00 Buck at around 15-20 yds and while it did stop him for the moment...they printed a pic of him with multiple band-aids on his head in court a week or so later. I thought ***? shot in the head with buckshot and he's up and around a week later?

Slugs for me thanks.

(They aquitted this guy in a retrial a few years ago and bought defensive use of a (illegal) full auto AK-47 at the door of the bar!!!) Wow.

dabigguns357 · August 23, 2009, 03:59 PM

I use slugs as well,but i have a rifled slug barrel.I use winchester x 3 inch for hunting and 2 3/4 winchester managed recoil slugs for hd.

rem870hunter · August 23, 2009, 09:05 PM

winchester super x 2 3/4" #1 buck, remington 2 3/4" slugger slugs

RNB65 · August 23, 2009, 09:13 PM

2 3/4" 00 buck

ADB · August 24, 2009, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Police showed up and shot him with 00 Buck at around 15-20 yds and while it did stop him for the moment...they printed a pic of him with multiple band-aids on his head in court a week or so later. I thought ***? shot in the head with buckshot and he's up and around a week later?

There is no way that someone can be shot in the head with buckshot at that distance and survive unless they're wearing a steel helmet. I don't know the circumstances or what happened there, but that in no way reflects the real world performance of buckshot.

I'll repeat: at home defense distances, any kind of shell is going to be devastating. The shot size doesn't matter much when you're putting a hole clear through your target.

Bill DeShivs · August 24, 2009, 02:51 AM

Skulls are notoriously hard to penetrate. It's not suprising to me at all.
I know of one instance where a man commited suicide by putting a 12 ga loaded with 00 buck in his mouth and pulling the trigger. The shot did not exit the skull.
.38 specials are notorious for not penetrating skulls.

FamilyDog · August 24, 2009, 04:10 AM

Brenneke Tactical HD SLugs in the ready. Federal LE127-00 on the side.

killoften · August 24, 2009, 06:03 AM

Gents, I just couldn't keep quite anymore. Been kinda a read and let live kinda guy for the most part as this bein me first post on this site.... but enough is enough... I can't believe how common opinion for HD shotgun is 00Buck!? Why!? It's SELF DEFENSE! What is the absolute most lethal threat stopping round an American Man can arm himself with? HV Slug of course! Name another, I double dog dare ya! It 1/16 of a lb at 1200 fps! HELLO! This isn't 'hunting' it's personel/family defence! Should you not be be armed with all you can? If you were the perp and you could pick, woulndt you 'kinda' prefer buck? And one could argu its as safe a bet to call it a one shot stop. Will I give him the chance to "think" about it? Probably not. Most of you picked oo buck, but why?!!! Cause it's the biggest 'shot' to shoot? (2 most leathal). Makes less sence than tits on a bull. I'm surgical with slugs, did 3 circumsisions this week alone. You don't NEED "spread" in your house even in the dark. (And don't hold ya breath cause ya ain't gettin it anyway no matter what comes out your tube) You need your shots to count! Ill push through a motha F'r crouched behind my Fridge if need be. NOTHING stops slugs. Nothing! Please save us all the head ach about over-penatration/family. Do your home work. Even bird shot penatrates too far in a house and if you ignored the 5th safety rule about what lies beyong your target you'l be in for a rude surprise. He's in my house/ he's gonna have a closed casket. Period. I mean its as if ya'l are all worried about the lawyers... I'm worried about shooting him hefore he shoots me! What if ya just 'wing' him in the weak shoulder with just 2 pellets? He gets his shot off in your chest. Ya 'wing' him with a slug and the fights over he's missing somethin. I hope I just saved some of your lives. God Bless.

hogdogs · August 24, 2009, 06:15 AM

The only reason I opt for 00 buck over slug is the fact that a pass thru in a soft spot of the body could leave the slug with enuff terminal energy to still kill easily after penetrating a wall. I feel the 00 would have had enuff energy shaved off to be pretty much neutered after a pass thru.
Brent

Mossy500 · August 24, 2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

The only reason I opt for 00 buck over slug is the fact that a pass thru in a soft spot of the body could leave the slug with enuff terminal energy to still kill easily after penetrating a wall. I feel the 00 would have had enuff energy shaved off to be pretty much neutered after a pass thru.
Brent

+1

M1911 · August 24, 2009, 10:38 AM

The point of slugs is to increase your range. I use them when hunting deer. But I won't have a 25 yard shoot inside my home.

IDAHOMIKE · August 25, 2009, 12:03 AM

Maybe its overkill. But my main HD shotgun is a Spanish SxS, in the aforementioned 3.5 in 10. In the bedroom is a Remington SP-10 with the barrel snipped to 21 inches. I have a Browning BPS in the 10 but haven't found a use as far as HD goes. In other parts of the house I do have a more "normal" choice, a Mossberg 500 PGO and she gets fed 00 Federal 3 inchers in 12 gauge.

SCREAMIII2006 · August 25, 2009, 11:17 PM

00,slug,00,slug,00,slug, .357 magnum with hollowpoints,throw gun after that

556A2 · August 25, 2009, 11:18 PM

2 3/4" Federal Vital-Shok 00 buckshot

Mossy500 · August 25, 2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

00,slug,00,slug,00,slug, .357 magnum with hollowpoints,throw gun after that

looks like your ready for the swarm of meth addicted zombies

gunnails · August 26, 2009, 12:01 AM

It just seems that shooting slugs thru a shotgun kinda defeats the purpose of using a shotgun. Why not a hand gun or a rifle, or a bazooka.

I thought the whole idea behind HD shotguns was, there cheap and easy to use, and the errant shot won't kill the neighbor kid.

For up close work even #8 bird shot is going to ruin some ones day.

.45 COLT · August 26, 2009, 12:06 AM

Dixie Tri-Ball.

DC

killoften · August 26, 2009, 04:19 PM

Slugs defeat the purpose of a shot gun?! On the contrary. The Purpose of MY shotgun is DESTROYING the threat! And it fills its purpose quite well. Yes, I understand the "name" of the gun is SHOTgun and a slug is not; but... details details. If I was bird shooting I'd use "shot."

"Why not a hand gun or a rifle, or a bazooka?"

Because my slugs are 438gr and MUCH larger than .50cal <--- ME THINKS THAT MATTERS. I'm assuming the bazooka question wasn't serious. But if you must know... My house isn't large enough for me to be out of "danger close" range of the explosion.

Hand guns are 'portable' made for public carry. Puny... The smallest, least leathal option of all. Good for their "purpose" but not home defense.
Rifles are very long and made for long range. (AR types excluded) But being a Marine I know their limitations in leathality ESPECIALLY in comparison with a HV slug at close range.
Remington 870 Express Magnum HD is made for blasting 2 legged vermin at close range. Why do i need "shot" at close range???! It doesnt penatrate body armor! Those pellets are smaller than .38 rounds! Do any of you use a .38 for HD? Crazy! Ya might wanna ask Santa for a second firearm.

If I hear 'over penatration' one more time I'm gonna hurl. It's BS. The fbi did a study and found that ALL shotgun loads OVERPENATRATE common house hold walls. Even birdshot and the only thing that stops these projectiles are the electrical boxes/switches. Not to mention, the study they did about how many...or i should say, how 'few' rounds fired by fbi agents in a fire fight hit their target. It was something astonishing like 2 rounds for every 10. So... over penatration was found to be much less a concern than stray rounds. And your advocating "SHOT" from a "SCATER GUN!!!?"
I for one don't fire until my rear sight is aligned with my front and my target. "5th safety rule" know what lies BEYOND your target. Anybody who would point any gun in the general direction of their little childen/wife and fire away (in the dark) thinking it's "ok" because they have birdshot or 00 get NO respect from me. None. If thats the only shot I have I'm not taking it. Thats where your tactics and training come in hand.
I'm in no way saying that 00, or 000/0000 isnt leathal. .22's are lethal but none of you rely on that to defend those who rely on you. What I'm saying is that nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing is more lethal than 12g slugs. (avaible to civilains) And the one rare time you can use that leathal firepower IS IN YOUR HOME for SD. Why are so many men insistant on smaller stuff?
To be honest I'm not quite sure how slugs get around the cap law at .50 for rifles but they certainly are larger and much closer to bullets than shot. I mean it's obvious they ARE bullets. I havent had the pleasure of using one on a 2 legged critter but boy is it gonna be grusome! Do Not Threaten My Life/Liberty While I Sleep! I take it personal. We're not talking punching holes, we're talking shape altering. I assume 100% of the time all perps are Grizzly Bears and need to be handled with apropiate ammo. I would not use 00 on a Grizzly. So why would I use it on an armed man with the intent to harm me? In my mind I feel it would be a MORE IMMEDIATE threat stop. When fractions of a second count to such a large degree of life and death. Why take your ammo choice so lightly? Yes, I'm aware slugs are overkill, thats the point!

ADB · August 26, 2009, 04:52 PM

killoften, I suspect you'd get every bit as much lethality if not more out of 00 or 000 buck as one of those slugs. Why? Simple: You're firing the same amount of lead down-range, but the buckshot spreads out the point of impact, and dumps it's energy into the target faster. A slug would probably go completely through a person, and any energy left in it at that point is wasted.

And family isn't the only reason to worry about your backstop: stray shots going into your house electrical wires can spark a fire. Or you could hit a gas line, or a water pipe, etcetera, etcetera.

Edward429451 · August 26, 2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

There is no way that someone can be shot in the head with buckshot at that distance and survive unless they're wearing a steel helmet. I don't know the circumstances or what happened there, but that in no way reflects the real world performance of buckshot.

I'll repeat: at home defense distances, any kind of shell is going to be devastating. The shot size doesn't matter much when you're putting a hole clear through your target.

?? The Gazette Telegraph of Colorado Springs printed the photo and the story explained that the officer shot the man with 00 Buckshot. It showed a pic in one story that showed the officer cruiser and the suspects truck where the shot took place. I lived <1/2 mile from where the incident took place so meandered up to take a look and paced it off etc...

I'm not asking you to believe it! I'm explaining why I do not have much confidence in buckshot anymore!! If you are that interested in it, research it. The incident took place April 17th 1993 and the following week or so of editions printed photos and the story. The perps name was Eugene Baylis.

15 to 20 yards may NOT represent most HD situations! I concur that up closer the effects of buckshot may be more damaging! I on the other hand, meaning only myself want a little more versatile ammo and ranges possible with my chosen ammo so have chosen to go with slugs moreso than any buckshot. You may go with whatever makes you feel comfortable! Ok?

August 23, 2009, 12:42 PM	#27
qwik Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2004 Location: nc Posts: 152	18.5 " barrel Remington 12 gauge, 2 3/4 length, 1200 velocity, 8 pellets, 00bk (managed-recoil buckshot-- lower recoil) __________________ havejeepwilltravel [0lllllll0]

August 23, 2009, 09:05 PM	#33
rem870hunter Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2007 Location: N.J. and trying to decide what state to move to. Posts: 973	winchester super x 2 3/4" #1 buck, remington 2 3/4" slugger slugs __________________ BEAR Bows,Remington shotguns,Marlin rifles

August 23, 2009, 09:13 PM	#34
RNB65 Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 167	2 3/4" 00 buck __________________ THR refugee.

August 24, 2009, 02:51 AM	#36
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	Skulls are notoriously hard to penetrate. It's not suprising to me at all. I know of one instance where a man commited suicide by putting a 12 ga loaded with 00 buck in his mouth and pulling the trigger. The shot did not exit the skull. .38 specials are notorious for not penetrating skulls. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

August 24, 2009, 04:10 AM	#37
FamilyDog Junior Member Join Date: August 18, 2009 Location: Northeast, USA Posts: 6	Brenneke Tactical HD SLugs in the ready. Federal LE127-00 on the side. __________________ *Paranoid, No....Prepared, Yes* Glock 30sf SA-XDm40 Ruger LCP Remington 870

August 23, 2009, 01:41 PM	#29
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	00, mostly. One posted 870 has #4 buck in it. Shot opps will be close and level.

August 23, 2009, 01:49 PM	#30
BillJunior Junior Member Join Date: February 22, 2009 Location: SC Posts: 7	00 Buckshot here as well. Federal 3" Magnum. I use my standard 870 and Mossberg pump.

August 23, 2009, 02:43 PM	#31
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I guess I'm the odd man out. I keep 2 3/4" slugs in & on my short barreled shotty. I lost my confidence in 00 Bucks ability ever since the April 17 1993 shooting of a suspect (Eugene Baylis), who walked into Jim & I's bar with a AK-47 and started shooting people. He killed two IIRC. Police showed up and shot him with 00 Buck at around 15-20 yds and while it did stop him for the moment...they printed a pic of him with multiple band-aids on his head in court a week or so later. I thought ***? shot in the head with buckshot and he's up and around a week later? Slugs for me thanks. (They aquitted this guy in a retrial a few years ago and bought defensive use of a (illegal) full auto AK-47 at the door of the bar!!!) Wow.

August 23, 2009, 03:59 PM	#32
dabigguns357 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Location: Ona,West Virginia Posts: 1,215	I use slugs as well,but i have a rifled slug barrel.I use winchester x 3 inch for hunting and 2 3/4 winchester managed recoil slugs for hd.

August 24, 2009, 06:03 AM	#38
killoften Member Join Date: August 3, 2009 Posts: 56	Gents, I just couldn't keep quite anymore. Been kinda a read and let live kinda guy for the most part as this bein me first post on this site.... but enough is enough... I can't believe how common opinion for HD shotgun is 00Buck!? Why!? It's SELF DEFENSE! What is the absolute most lethal threat stopping round an American Man can arm himself with? HV Slug of course! Name another, I double dog dare ya! It 1/16 of a lb at 1200 fps! HELLO! This isn't 'hunting' it's personel/family defence! Should you not be be armed with all you can? If you were the perp and you could pick, woulndt you 'kinda' prefer buck? And one could argu its as safe a bet to call it a one shot stop. Will I give him the chance to "think" about it? Probably not. Most of you picked oo buck, but why?!!! Cause it's the biggest 'shot' to shoot? (2 most leathal). Makes less sence than tits on a bull. I'm surgical with slugs, did 3 circumsisions this week alone. You don't NEED "spread" in your house even in the dark. (And don't hold ya breath cause ya ain't gettin it anyway no matter what comes out your tube) You need your shots to count! Ill push through a motha F'r crouched behind my Fridge if need be. NOTHING stops slugs. Nothing! Please save us all the head ach about over-penatration/family. Do your home work. Even bird shot penatrates too far in a house and if you ignored the 5th safety rule about what lies beyong your target you'l be in for a rude surprise. He's in my house/ he's gonna have a closed casket. Period. I mean its as if ya'l are all worried about the lawyers... I'm worried about shooting him hefore he shoots me! What if ya just 'wing' him in the weak shoulder with just 2 pellets? He gets his shot off in your chest. Ya 'wing' him with a slug and the fights over he's missing somethin. I hope I just saved some of your lives. God Bless.

August 24, 2009, 06:15 AM	#39
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	The only reason I opt for 00 buck over slug is the fact that a pass thru in a soft spot of the body could leave the slug with enuff terminal energy to still kill easily after penetrating a wall. I feel the 00 would have had enuff energy shaved off to be pretty much neutered after a pass thru. Brent

August 24, 2009, 10:38 AM	#41
M1911 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2000 Posts: 4,055	The point of slugs is to increase your range. I use them when hunting deer. But I won't have a 25 yard shoot inside my home.

August 25, 2009, 12:03 AM	#42
IDAHOMIKE Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2007 Location: Gooding, ID Posts: 348	Federal 00, 3.5 inch 10 gauge Maybe its overkill. But my main HD shotgun is a Spanish SxS, in the aforementioned 3.5 in 10. In the bedroom is a Remington SP-10 with the barrel snipped to 21 inches. I have a Browning BPS in the 10 but haven't found a use as far as HD goes. In other parts of the house I do have a more "normal" choice, a Mossberg 500 PGO and she gets fed 00 Federal 3 inchers in 12 gauge.

August 25, 2009, 11:17 PM	#43
SCREAMIII2006 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2007 Location: Sunny South Florida Posts: 201	00,slug,00,slug,00,slug, .357 magnum with hollowpoints,throw gun after that __________________ Better to be judged by 12,then carried by 6...

August 25, 2009, 11:18 PM	#44
556A2 Member Join Date: February 17, 2008 Location: Asheboro, NC Posts: 57	2 3/4" Federal Vital-Shok 00 buckshot

August 26, 2009, 12:01 AM	#46
gunnails Junior Member Join Date: August 13, 2009 Location: Hillsboro Oregon Posts: 14	It just seems that shooting slugs thru a shotgun kinda defeats the purpose of using a shotgun. Why not a hand gun or a rifle, or a bazooka. I thought the whole idea behind HD shotguns was, there cheap and easy to use, and the errant shot won't kill the neighbor kid. For up close work even #8 bird shot is going to ruin some ones day.

August 26, 2009, 12:06 AM	#47
.45 COLT Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 308	Dixie Tri-Ball. DC

August 26, 2009, 04:19 PM	#48
killoften Member Join Date: August 3, 2009 Posts: 56	Slugs defeat the purpose of a shot gun?! On the contrary. The Purpose of MY shotgun is DESTROYING the threat! And it fills its purpose quite well. Yes, I understand the "name" of the gun is SHOTgun and a slug is not; but... details details. If I was bird shooting I'd use "shot." "Why not a hand gun or a rifle, or a bazooka?" Because my slugs are 438gr and MUCH larger than .50cal <--- ME THINKS THAT MATTERS. I'm assuming the bazooka question wasn't serious. But if you must know... My house isn't large enough for me to be out of "danger close" range of the explosion. Hand guns are 'portable' made for public carry. Puny... The smallest, least leathal option of all. Good for their "purpose" but not home defense. Rifles are very long and made for long range. (AR types excluded) But being a Marine I know their limitations in leathality ESPECIALLY in comparison with a HV slug at close range. Remington 870 Express Magnum HD is made for blasting 2 legged vermin at close range. Why do i need "shot" at close range???! It doesnt penatrate body armor! Those pellets are smaller than .38 rounds! Do any of you use a .38 for HD? Crazy! Ya might wanna ask Santa for a second firearm. If I hear 'over penatration' one more time I'm gonna hurl. It's BS. The fbi did a study and found that ALL shotgun loads OVERPENATRATE common house hold walls. Even birdshot and the only thing that stops these projectiles are the electrical boxes/switches. Not to mention, the study they did about how many...or i should say, how 'few' rounds fired by fbi agents in a fire fight hit their target. It was something astonishing like 2 rounds for every 10. So... over penatration was found to be much less a concern than stray rounds. And your advocating "SHOT" from a "SCATER GUN!!!?" I for one don't fire until my rear sight is aligned with my front and my target. "5th safety rule" know what lies BEYOND your target. Anybody who would point any gun in the general direction of their little childen/wife and fire away (in the dark) thinking it's "ok" because they have birdshot or 00 get NO respect from me. None. If thats the only shot I have I'm not taking it. Thats where your tactics and training come in hand. I'm in no way saying that 00, or 000/0000 isnt leathal. .22's are lethal but none of you rely on that to defend those who rely on you. What I'm saying is that nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing is more lethal than 12g slugs. (avaible to civilains) And the one rare time you can use that leathal firepower IS IN YOUR HOME for SD. Why are so many men insistant on smaller stuff? To be honest I'm not quite sure how slugs get around the cap law at .50 for rifles but they certainly are larger and much closer to bullets than shot. I mean it's obvious they ARE bullets. I havent had the pleasure of using one on a 2 legged critter but boy is it gonna be grusome! Do Not Threaten My Life/Liberty While I Sleep! I take it personal. We're not talking punching holes, we're talking shape altering. I assume 100% of the time all perps are Grizzly Bears and need to be handled with apropiate ammo. I would not use 00 on a Grizzly. So why would I use it on an armed man with the intent to harm me? In my mind I feel it would be a MORE IMMEDIATE threat stop. When fractions of a second count to such a large degree of life and death. Why take your ammo choice so lightly? Yes, I'm aware slugs are overkill, thats the point!

August 26, 2009, 04:52 PM	#49
ADB Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2009 Posts: 399	killoften, I suspect you'd get every bit as much lethality if not more out of 00 or 000 buck as one of those slugs. Why? Simple: You're firing the same amount of lead down-range, but the buckshot spreads out the point of impact, and dumps it's energy into the target faster. A slug would probably go completely through a person, and any energy left in it at that point is wasted. And family isn't the only reason to worry about your backstop: stray shots going into your house electrical wires can spark a fire. Or you could hit a gas line, or a water pipe, etcetera, etcetera.