Winchester Model 12 - Page 2

FrankenMauser · May 18, 2021, 07:11 PM

The above recommendations (demands, really) for Win AA or Remington STS/Nitro are no guarantee for brass heads in today's world.
I have all of the above, and other "premium" hulls, with brass-washed or brass-plated steel bases.
Manufacturers use what they can get. Sometimes, that means using steel heads on hulls that might usually get brass. But I'm not sure that they even make it "the old way" any more.

Right now, in fact, I cannot find a brass-headed STS or Nitro hull. Everything that I have in my stash is washed/plated steel. These primarily represent 2010+ production.

If you check the Winchester website, you may note that they don't mention a brass base for AA any more. This aligns with the hulls that I have collected over the last 20 years. AA from the late '90s and earlier seems to be all brass heads. But 2000 and up became a mixed bag. Now, it seems to be all steel.

The only hull that I know of that doesn't get made unless the head is brass is Federal Gold Medal Grand -- the paper hull.

There may be specialty loads that are still always brass heads. But the only one that I know of being "guaranteed" is FGMG paper. And that, of course, is only viable if you're shooting 12 ga.

mehavey · May 18, 2021, 07:26 PM

I just went down w/ a magnet and checked all the range pick-up AA hulls I've got (probably close to 1½-2,000),
and the two new cases of AA in the garage: all Brass

The boxes of high-base Super-X #4s?
Brass-washed STEEL.

FrankenMauser · May 19, 2021, 02:12 AM

The old grAAy mAAre AAin't whAAt she used to be.

eastbank · May 19, 2021, 03:10 AM

i shoot thousands of federal-estate bulk 12ga walmart ammo in a browning bt-100- browning sporting clays limited o/u- rem 1187 trap-870-win model 12 and have seen thousands of them fired on the clay games. my rem 870 would some times have a fired case stick in the chamber, after a good ployishing of the chamber that went away. i don,t think the problem is with the shells, but the shotgun.

mehavey · May 19, 2021, 05:44 AM

Awaiting OP reply to Post#25.

Meanwhile, steel-hulls will fail to eject in my 1100, and totally lock up my two Express 870s until
some not-insignificant surgery beyond simple throat polishing.

I don't have any problems w/ my Tristar Viper, Wingmaster 870, or Ithaca 37s

jaguarxk120 · May 19, 2021, 08:04 AM

Sometimes this shell sticking happens to high volume shooters.
What happens is they have a "dry" chamber, and sometimes light rust inside.
Shooters of long ago did not have this problem with paper shells.
The paper hull bodies were made with a wax coating, that wax lubed the chamber.

Todays modern plastic shells do not have any sort of lube or coatings.
The chambers become very dry and shells start sticking and not ejecting!!

glassguy · May 26, 2021, 07:09 PM

My apologies to all for my lack of reply. Life happens and I had some important issues to address. I am currently not at home. I'll try to publish some pictures when I return home.

nitro-express · August 14, 2023, 07:13 PM

This is a common issue when a different barrel is "fitted" to a receiver. Same thing if the barrel and extension are swapped. The chamber ring is fitted to the original barrel. The barrel chamber is seldom centered precisely, it is a few or sever thou off center. The new chamber ring is reamed to match the new barrel. The issue being the tooling to do the job probably died with the old gunsmith that had them, and new chamber rings are not available either. The "fix" is to enlarge the chamber ring so no part of the ring is proud of the chamber. The ring can be a bit bigger in diameter than the chamber. You cn feel if this alignment is off. With the gun assembled and the bolt open, use your finger and run your finger out of the chamber after inserting your finger.

Once this is "fixed", and non brass shells may still stick if they expand into the junction between the ring and the chamber. Old AA hulls usually work best, but if the fit is tight, others work as well.

Not knowing what the previous owner did is an issue, as you don't know what to undo before doing what you should. It's not unusual to have a shell eject that is visibly two diameters on the "brass". IOW the chamber ring is noticeable larger than the chamber.

May 18, 2021, 07:11 PM	#26
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	The above recommendations (demands, really) for Win AA or Remington STS/Nitro are no guarantee for brass heads in today's world. I have all of the above, and other "premium" hulls, with brass-washed or brass-plated steel bases. Manufacturers use what they can get. Sometimes, that means using steel heads on hulls that might usually get brass. But I'm not sure that they even make it "the old way" any more. Right now, in fact, I cannot find a brass-headed STS or Nitro hull. Everything that I have in my stash is washed/plated steel. These primarily represent 2010+ production. If you check the Winchester website, you may note that they don't mention a brass base for AA any more. This aligns with the hulls that I have collected over the last 20 years. AA from the late '90s and earlier seems to be all brass heads. But 2000 and up became a mixed bag. Now, it seems to be all steel. The only hull that I know of that doesn't get made unless the head is brass is Federal Gold Medal Grand -- the paper hull. There may be specialty loads that are still always brass heads. But the only one that I know of being "guaranteed" is FGMG paper. And that, of course, is only viable if you're shooting 12 ga. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

May 19, 2021, 02:12 AM	#28
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	The old grAAy mAAre AAin't whAAt she used to be. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

August 14, 2023, 07:13 PM	#33
nitro-express Member Join Date: November 10, 2011 Location: Rural Mb, near Winnipeg Posts: 18	Winchester Model 12: Fitting of the chamber ring. This is a common issue when a different barrel is "fitted" to a receiver. Same thing if the barrel and extension are swapped. The chamber ring is fitted to the original barrel. The barrel chamber is seldom centered precisely, it is a few or sever thou off center. The new chamber ring is reamed to match the new barrel. The issue being the tooling to do the job probably died with the old gunsmith that had them, and new chamber rings are not available either. The "fix" is to enlarge the chamber ring so no part of the ring is proud of the chamber. The ring can be a bit bigger in diameter than the chamber. You cn feel if this alignment is off. With the gun assembled and the bolt open, use your finger and run your finger out of the chamber after inserting your finger. Once this is "fixed", and non brass shells may still stick if they expand into the junction between the ring and the chamber. Old AA hulls usually work best, but if the fit is tight, others work as well. Not knowing what the previous owner did is an issue, as you don't know what to undo before doing what you should. It's not unusual to have a shell eject that is visibly two diameters on the "brass". IOW the chamber ring is noticeable larger than the chamber.

May 18, 2021, 07:26 PM	#27
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,886	I just went down w/ a magnet and checked all the range pick-up AA hulls I've got (probably close to 1½-2,000), and the two new cases of AA in the garage: all Brass The boxes of high-base Super-X #4s? Brass-washed STEEL.

May 19, 2021, 03:10 AM	#29
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,450	i shoot thousands of federal-estate bulk 12ga walmart ammo in a browning bt-100- browning sporting clays limited o/u- rem 1187 trap-870-win model 12 and have seen thousands of them fired on the clay games. my rem 870 would some times have a fired case stick in the chamber, after a good ployishing of the chamber that went away. i don,t think the problem is with the shells, but the shotgun.

May 19, 2021, 05:44 AM	#30
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,886	Awaiting OP reply to Post#25. Meanwhile, steel-hulls will fail to eject in my 1100, and totally lock up my two Express 870s until some not-insignificant surgery beyond simple throat polishing. I don't have any problems w/ my Tristar Viper, Wingmaster 870, or Ithaca 37s

May 19, 2021, 08:04 AM	#31
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,619	Sometimes this shell sticking happens to high volume shooters. What happens is they have a "dry" chamber, and sometimes light rust inside. Shooters of long ago did not have this problem with paper shells. The paper hull bodies were made with a wax coating, that wax lubed the chamber. Todays modern plastic shells do not have any sort of lube or coatings. The chambers become very dry and shells start sticking and not ejecting!!

May 26, 2021, 07:09 PM	#32
glassguy Member Join Date: August 11, 2009 Location: Living on the edge of Florida Posts: 81	My apologies to all for my lack of reply. Life happens and I had some important issues to address. I am currently not at home. I'll try to publish some pictures when I return home.