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Old April 10, 2021, 12:04 PM   #76
Bart B.
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Parallax (from Ancient Greek παράλλαξις (parallaxis) 'alternation') is a displacement or difference in the apparent position of an object viewed along two different lines of sight, and is measured by the angle or semi-angle of inclination between those two lines.

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Old April 10, 2021, 12:37 PM   #77
Ricklin
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Technology

I lean more to the budget end of the scale on scopes as well. Here's why.

There have been many technical advances in optics and coatings over recent decades. Technological advances typically drive down cost, faster, cheaper, better. Just look at the advances driven by virtually unlimited cheap computing power on optics design.

Not sure how that would relate in cost to my rifle, it was manufactured about 70 years ago, and has changed darn little in the last 150 years.
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Old April 10, 2021, 03:26 PM   #78
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'Tis my opinion that mechanical quality is much more important than optical quality. Especially for variable power scopes.

Does your variable power scope pass a hysteresis test at both ends of the power range? That's a figure 8 path the reticle makes as the zoom changes direction. It's a common problem.

Too bad scope's image quality is not measured the same way camera lenses are. It's easy enough to do with a digital image sensor in their second image plane. Focus accuracy can easily be measured to see if any error is present that can cause parallax issues.

Last edited by Bart B.; April 12, 2021 at 12:20 PM.
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Old April 17, 2021, 07:43 AM   #79
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just received my new scope for my cz455. sIII 8x32-57 1/8 minute dot. almost as much money as the gun, yuck yuck.
....it really depends on what shooting you are planning. hunting, plinking, formal target shooting or in this case rimfire bench rest.
,,,generally speaking most of my more accurate guns wear iron sights or scopes that match or exceed price of the gun. fwiw.

Last edited by bobn; April 17, 2021 at 07:48 AM.
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Old April 24, 2021, 07:00 AM   #80
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One of the best scopes I ever had was a 2.5x20 Simmons shotgun scope. Light, compact and simple. With 5.5 inches of eye relief, it was super easy and quick to get behind. It was the perfect scope for a 45-70 Guide Gun. I paid $19.99 for that scope on sale. A golf ball at 100 yards didn't stand a chance.
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Old May 3, 2021, 09:43 PM   #81
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Then you are very lucky. Every Simmons scope I wasted money on was a colossal pile of .

I wouldn't expect to repeat your results.
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Old May 7, 2021, 09:17 AM   #82
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I "Pulled" the trigger on one of these. Not sure what rifle I will put it on, but a buddy of mine has one and really likes it.
https://shopdunns.com/product/burris...-scope-200349/

Burris Fullfield E1 4.5-14x42mm Ballistic Plex Reticle Rifle Scope #200349
WAS $397.95 NOW $179.99 with Free Shipping It has a side focus.
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Old May 7, 2021, 09:24 AM   #83
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One of the guys I shoot 22 matches with uses this scope and he loves it. He paid $700+ for it so this looks like a good deal.

I have looked through his scope similar to this and it is very clear and accurate. It was more money than I wanted to spend on my 22 rifle.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/bush...f32456bs9.html

BUSHNELL FORGE 3-24X56MM SFP ZERO STOP RIFLESCOPE, BLACK - RF32456BS9 $499.99
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Old May 7, 2021, 10:20 AM   #84
Don Fischer
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Just wondering. Any body know which manufacturer started this rumor about spending more on the scope than the rifle? Been reading about it a long time but never actually bought into it.
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Old May 7, 2021, 03:06 PM   #85
Bart B.
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I've never cared much about a scope's optical quality.

Mechanical quality is 12 times more important. Adjustments have to be very repeatable from shot to shot. Low cost Weaver model T fixed power scopes may well have been the best.
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Old May 8, 2021, 03:37 PM   #86
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Now that is funny. I agree the Weaver T36 works really well but it’s pretty rough even at 100 yards I can’t imagine at 300 yards in a rain storm! Still, it makes wait and poa will equal poi at 100 yards.

I’ve had scopes valued up to about $1000. I’ve also shot animals with scopes that weren’t worth $.55. That said I’d rather have a decent scope on my rifle when hunting. I like to look at the $3000 scopes at the range but I just can’t pull the trigger on that kind of money.
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Old May 8, 2021, 05:22 PM   #87
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Only a true Fudd would say 'no.'
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Old May 8, 2021, 06:21 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Fischer View Post
Just wondering. Any body know which manufacturer started this rumor about spending more on the scope than the rifle? Been reading about it a long time but never actually bought into it.
I don't know where it started, but it's generally a true fact.
Yes, There are plenty of people that have had $50 - $100 scopes that have never let them down. Good for them! I've never been that lucky, and had plenty of them break.

The cheapest scopes I own now are my Japanese Weaver scopes that are on some 22's & hunting rifles. They are all in the $375 - $700 MSRP range.
All of my precision / long range rifles get scopes that suit the job, and range from $1k - $3500 MSRP range.

People that take the time looking around can find top tier scopes used for some really good prices. I've bought many high end scopes on clearance sales and used for 1/3rd to 1/2 price.

I sold my $2800 Revic PMR428 for $2k a while back. Two days later, I found a LNIB S&B PMII 5-25x56 for $2200.
So I bought a $3500 MSRP scope for $1000 when it was said and done, and it doesn't have a scratch on it. It just takes a little time looking to find a great deal on a quality scope.

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Old May 9, 2021, 12:33 PM   #89
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Quote:
I don't know where it started, but it's generally a true fact.
Yes, There are plenty of people that have had $50 - $100 scopes that have never let them down. Good for them! I've never been that lucky, and had plenty of them break.
I only have had a few scopes go down over the years, but I learned early on to stay with quality in terms of mechanical build at a minimum. Still have a few old Redfields that just keep on ticking, I have a $750 optic on my precision rimfire, not for price, but for specs I wanted on it.

And TXhillbilly, you have more in your rings and base on that rig that most people posting have in their scope. Looks like a fun rig.
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Old May 11, 2021, 09:57 AM   #90
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Some seem to be saying that if you pay $1500 for your rifle you may not be able to find a scope good enough to work on it. I think people that want to lay out that kind of money should go ahead and do it, I also think you can do just as well spending a lot less on the scope. The vast majority of hunter's see well enough to shoot well with a $150 scope and I suspect they also can't afford a thousand dollar scope. I'm also quite certain the vast number of hunter's will never find a place to practice shooting to 500 yds nor will they ever try the shot just for hoots! But well heeled shooter's that like to tell of extremely long shot's champion the idea that you need to spend more on the scope than the rifle.

Thinking about that, should I get a Nightforce scope for the Mossberg I paid $300 for? Will it do anything to make either myself or the rifle shoot any better? With a $165 Vortex Crossfire I get right at 1/2" group's at 100yds off a bench with it, consistently!
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Old May 11, 2021, 10:12 AM   #91
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This is good. Just read on another forum, a guy has a rifle he paid $1139 for brand new. On it he put a Vortex Viper FFP 6-24x50 he paid $959 for brand new. He obviously got his self a crappy scope for the rifle he has! Just though I'd mention it!
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Old May 11, 2021, 12:27 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Fischer View Post
This is good. Just read on another forum, a guy has a rifle he paid $1139 for brand new. On it he put a Vortex Viper FFP 6-24x50 he paid $959 for brand new. He obviously got his self a crappy scope for the rifle he has! Just though I'd mention it!
From the quality standpoint of Vortex over the past couple years, you are correct on the crappy scope part.

And yes, If you can afford a Nightforce, then put one on your Mossberg. It might just help you out.
I've put a $2k Swarovski on a used $350 Savage before. It beat the hell out of the POS scope that was on the rifle when I bought it. Never missed any deer or elk that I ever put in the crosshairs with it.
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Old May 11, 2021, 04:51 PM   #93
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Something to think about. When Nightforce first got going they were in a small shop just south of Renton, Wash. I was looking for a copy of Varmint Hunter magazine and called to see if they might have a copy, certainly did. So the next week I had a load with some drops near there and stopped in. Young guy running the show then. He had a partner out back that assembled the scopes. He showed me a scope that the reticle lit up in, bright red cross wires. Really pretty neat. He was a long range shooter himself, showed me a rifle he had there. don't recall the action but it was a 308 and weighted right at 30 pounds. In the course of conversation he told me all their parts came from China and they put the scopes together right there. I have no idea if that's the way they still do it or not but it did look like a nice scope but the biggest difference I noticed from other mid range scope's was that lighted reticule. It didn't go top to bottom and side to side it somehow just hung in the middle! The wow factor cost's a lot of money!
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Old May 11, 2021, 10:36 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Logs View Post
I have used a bunch of lesser scopes like Simmons, Tasco, Bushnell, Charles Daly, Nikon Buckmaster, lower end Vortex and keep coming back to Leupold.

They all look great in the store, but when you hunt in hot weather, cold weather, rain then the better scopes shine.

My favorite hunting Scope is a Leupold 3x9x50. It doesn't fog, very clear, great field of view and holds zero year after year.

Many of the Vortex optic and others are made in China like the lower end optics.

Also look at the used market for Leupolds if you don't want to spend the new price. They are all covered by a lifetime warranty so you can't go wrong. I have picked up VX I scopes for $125 at gun shows.
I picked up and AR10(T) with a US Optics scope on it about 25 years ago and looked down the tube. I did a double take, dismounted the rifle to look at the scope.

The owner, a swat guy, laughed. He said, "Everbody does that. Nice crisp image, eh?"

I don't believe these are the same quality of the US optics you find for sale now.
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Old May 12, 2021, 06:33 AM   #95
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Based on my personal experience, sticking a tier 1 scope on a rifle with crappy construction/parts or a shooter with bad technique is not going to make the rifle shoot any better most of the time.

Quote:
Mechanical quality is 12 times more important.
Definitely agree with this, but then Bart must be blessed with bionic eyes.
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Old May 12, 2021, 10:13 AM   #96
Bart B.
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I don't have bionic eyes. I do have an optical collimator that fits in the muzzle:

https://alleysupply.com/site-a-line.html

Using a 6X monocular I look into the scope eyepiece to test these functions:

* see if one elevation and windage click back and forth is repeatable, then 2 clicks, then 3.

* zoom power back and forth in its limits to see if there's any slop in the two erector lens mounts that move to focus target image on the reticle. I've seen expensive scope's reticle make half MOA figure 8 paths zooming between stops.

I've never "boxed" a scope shooting bullets because I cannot shoot 'em under 1/16th MOA to test quarter MOA clicks

Last edited by Bart B.; May 12, 2021 at 03:38 PM.
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