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Old February 9, 2016, 08:32 AM   #1
Machineguntony
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First Time with Transferable S&W Machine Pistol

This is a review of a transferable Smith&Wesson machine pistol and my first experience shooting it.

I picked up stamp and gun today, and I immediately took it to the range. The gun came wth a stock, but I preferred to shoot it without the stock.

It was my first time shooting a machine pistol, but I had studied various videos of people shooting machine pistols. When dealing with something like a machine pistol, safety is first and foremost. You have to respect and be fully aware of the gun at all times. This is not a gun for beginners (but then again, no machine gun is for beginners unless highly supervised).

Here is video of me and two other people shooting the gun. I have not figured out how to show the video in a window on the forum, so for now, I'll just show the link. If someone can show me how to post the video in a window, I'd appreciate it.

Here is the video:

https://youtu.be/Fy5FbzyrH6A

The gun is surprisingly easy to shoot. It's a 9mm, so the recoil isn't bad. Also, I load my own rounds, so I made relatively mild rounds. You can see in the video that the cases didn't fly far. That was because I used a middling load with a relatively mild powder.

However, the gun will rise on you. This weekend, I'll take the gun to an outdoor range, where I can mag dump. On a mag dump, I think I'll reach an equilibrium point where the gun rises but then it flattens out and no longer rises. On burst fire, I'm not yet able to prevent the rise; although, I think with enough practice I will be able to put bursts into a seven inch group at 10 yards.

My technique is to hold the gun with the predominant side fully extended and locked. I effectively use a submachine gun shooting stance, with a pistol grip (feet spacing, shoulder to target alignment, and spinal posture similar to SMG shooting, but grip and arm extension consistent with my pistol grip). That's me in the blue sweater.

Usually, I let various invited guests shoot my machine guns, as an act of NFA ambassadorship, but not this gun. I did let a couple of very experienced range employees shoot the gun. Both had a giant grin afterwards, although one commented that his heart was racing afterwards.

The gun is a lot of fun. Is it useful? Well, I wouldn't use it for self defense, unless I knew ahead of time that there were no innocent bystanders nearby and I also had seven magazines ready. I also wouldn't use it for subgun or pistol competition unless I wanted to come in last place. I also wouldn't take it varmint hunting.

Then again, fun is the end goal with all my guns, so this gun is extremely useful and handy.
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Old February 9, 2016, 02:51 PM   #2
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When I read this I expected to see an M76, not a full-auto handgun!

Hey, you need to post your results - were you able to hit the target with this thing? It looks like fun to shoot. Now, you just need a few extended magazines and/or a drum, if you can find/make one.
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Old February 10, 2016, 01:17 AM   #3
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I have to say....

Every morning I offer up a little prayer of thanks for MachinegunTony's previous posts and a little prayer of request for another submission.

The latter was answered again to day! Great vid: what a blast!!
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Old February 10, 2016, 01:36 AM   #4
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Well, I'm not much in to the full auto stuff but I am huge, longtime and very dedicated fan of S&W handguns and pistols especially. So I'm really chomping at the bit to learn more about the pistol itself.

Can't see it well in the video -- only from the back. It looks stainless. If it's transferable... am I to assume it's pre-March'86? My first inclination is 5906 but the 5906 didn't arrive until 1988.

Is it a 2nd Gen 659? I definitely hope it's steel frame and not alloy. I would worry about the service life of an alloy frame doing what THAT does.

Watching it run is definitely a lot of fun!
Please tell more about the pistol itself and some pictures if possible!
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Old February 10, 2016, 02:41 AM   #5
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Thanks for the kind words, gentlemen.

Here is a pic of my first target. I think this is like three or four mags. So...45-60 rounds or so.

It was my first time shooting the gun.



Here is the history behind this gun and its sear, as written by Capt. Monty in SAR (see attached pic, which for some reason, I can't embed). The registered part is actually the sear. It can be moved to any drop-in gun, and the sear drops into any S&W 59 series, including a 5906. Currently, it is in a 659. I have a 5906 TSW TAC9 that I am going to install it in. I am going to have a verified gunsmith so it.

I have plenty of 5906 hosts with spare parts standing by.

The downside of using the 5906 with the sear is that you can't use the collapsible stock, as seen in the picture (which I have). But I don't really like using the stock. It looks cool with the stock, but it shoots better without the stock because of arm extension.

I'm a huge fan of the 5906 series. The TSW TAC9 is my favorite handgun ever. The Legion, HKs, Glocks, etc, have nothing on the TAC9, which is the father of the picatinny handgun rail craze.

As the article stated, there are only 10 of these in existence that can be unrestricted civilian owned. The inventor was only able to make 10 before the '86 cut off. I am very fortunate to own this one. Unfortunately, I will never sell it. haha. I own a lot of guns. I cherish this one the most.



*for some reason, I can't embed pictures anymore. Can someone tell me why?
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Old February 10, 2016, 03:31 AM   #6
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The picture is showing, it looks to be a magazine article.

Now how good am I -- guessing that it was a 659!

I am quite familiar with 5906's and all the TSW series pistols but a Tac9 does not sound familiar.
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Old February 10, 2016, 08:32 AM   #7
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I have a 659 (semi-auto), and have had it for over25 years. I can testify that it is about as rock-solid as any pistol can be. Way over-engineered for a 9mm; but I would think it would be a perfect host for a full-auto sear.
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Old February 10, 2016, 11:40 AM   #8
Machineguntony
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Here is the gun and stock with an extended 30 round mag.



Here is the gun and stock folded.



The collapsible stock and gun is concealable. I would not use this gun in self defense, for obvious reasons. Rather, because the gun is relatively small for a MG, when I take it to the range, I keep it on my body for security reasons.

This is just for demonstration, show and tell. I prefer the gun without the stock.





This would be the gun after drawing. The stock can be quickly deployed.



Sevens, here is the 'TAC9'. It's just what I call the TSW 5906. This will be the host.

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Last edited by Machineguntony; February 10, 2016 at 11:47 AM.
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Old February 10, 2016, 02:09 PM   #9
Skans
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Is the drop-safety also the "happy switch"?
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Old February 10, 2016, 03:10 PM   #10
Machineguntony
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Yes.
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Old February 10, 2016, 06:17 PM   #11
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Old February 10, 2016, 10:02 PM   #12
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some times I buy guns just because they are fun!
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Old February 11, 2016, 12:08 PM   #13
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Old February 11, 2016, 01:42 PM   #14
Machineguntony
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I don't get the last post.
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Old February 11, 2016, 02:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
I don't get the last post.
I think he's implying that you have too many cool toys and he want's one.

I never knew S&W had a full auto pistol. Have to admit that I do like the look of it.
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Old February 11, 2016, 03:31 PM   #16
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Is there a selector switch?
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Old February 11, 2016, 04:00 PM   #17
Pond, James Pond
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If I'm not mistaken there is the full-auto Glock 18, a Beretta 92 variant (I think), and I seem to recall even a CZ 75 full-auto.

How does this S&W compare to those and are there any other machine pistols based on everyday semis?
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Old February 11, 2016, 04:58 PM   #18
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I have seen a Glock 18 (actually a 17 with selector back plate) in action with a stock. It was not bad at all, but presumably the owner had practiced with it.

James,
Don't forget the Mauser Schnellfeuer Broomhandle variant.
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Old February 11, 2016, 08:48 PM   #19
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Full auto pistols are really cool toys; It's an idea that has bee around for a while, as in the Star select fire pistols from the 20s, Mauser Schnellfeuers and the Astra copies.

Mentioned in another forum about an Argentine armorer I worked with in Miami who showed me an incredibly simple device that converted Hi Powers to full auto (but not select fire). I got to shoot the gun without a stock, and I have to say it was ...different. But still lots of fun, though.

One of my neighbors is an NFA manufacturer and converted a 1911 to FA. Now that was something!

Your Smith is really awesome; Too bad you don't live in AZ. My neighbor sets up an informal machinegun shoot twice a year where we go out on the forest land and have a ball. A few times, people have called in hysterical complaints to the S.O., which, by law they are obligated to investigate. Since we know most of them, they get to stay and shoot their own stuff, and we always invite them to try our stuff. You'd be (pleasantly) surprised at how few times we get tickets if we get pulled over.
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Old February 12, 2016, 12:00 AM   #20
Machineguntony
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Ah ok cool. I couldn't tell if Kilimanjaro was serious. I know sometimes people get upset at full auto.

Not too long ago, I had a gentleman complain to the range master regarding my full auto. He said it was obnoxious. It made me sad.

Gyvel, how far are you from the Big Sandy shoot? That's in Arizona. I've told myself that one day I'm going to load up 50,000 rounds, rent an RV, and go to the Big Sandy shoot. Gosh, that would be fun.

James, if you're talking about F/A handguns that can be civilian owned, there aren't too many. There are zero Glock 18 that can be civilian unrestricted owned (all G18s are dealer samples). Ten S&W (we only know the number because of the article). A small number of F/A 1911s. A small number of Stars. A small number of Stechkins. Six to twelve Bixler-Boatman made Baretta 93Rs. There are some rumored Browning Hi-Powers (I can't verify this). I had a knowledgable dealer tell me that there are maybe less than 30-50 unrestricted machine pistols total.

Notice I didn't count the Mauser 712 'broom handle' or the micro Uzi, although technically they are machine pistols. The Mauser doesn't feed from the pistol grip, like a traditional modern pistol. The micro Uzi isn't based off of a standard S/A pistol, rather it is based off of the UZI SMG. To me, if one is going to argue that the micro Uzi is a machine pistol, then I would argue that the MAC or TEC9 F/A are also machine pistols.

Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but if someone in America wants to own a machine pistol, those are the most available possibilities.

The S&W F/A is the most versatile of machine pistols because you can move the sear to other hosts (I've stocked up on 5906s for this reason). I was offered a 1911 F/A for sale. I didn't buy it because I was advised to only shoot it 'on special occasions'. If I'm going to buy a unicorn gun (and pay for it), I'm going to want to shoot it a lot, but doing so would warp the frame eventually. So I passed. With the S&W, I can shoot it as much as I want.
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Old February 13, 2016, 06:09 AM   #21
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Quote:
Not too long ago, I had a gentleman complain to the range master regarding my full auto. He said it was obnoxious. It made me sad.
I suppose I can kinda see where he's coming from depending on his definition of obnoxious. Someone waltzing in with an expensive F/A while everyone else can only afford a semi could be considered obnoxious.
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Old February 13, 2016, 11:47 AM   #22
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Someone waltzing in with an expensive F/A while everyone else can only afford a semi could be considered obnoxious.
I cant afford a 200mph Audi R8 ($250,000), but when i parked next to one at the In-n-out in Vegas last month..i appreciated the car.
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Old February 13, 2016, 02:37 PM   #23
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duplicate deleted.

Last edited by Skans; February 15, 2016 at 09:15 AM.
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Old February 13, 2016, 02:38 PM   #24
Skans
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I suppose I can kinda see where he's coming from depending on his definition of obnoxious. Someone waltzing in with an expensive F/A while everyone else can only afford a semi could be considered obnoxious.
Ehhh, I don't see it that way at all. I love to see full-auto at gun ranges, as long as the folks shooting them know how to control their gun. Most full-auto's that you will encounter at an indoor or even an outdoor range will be .45, 9mm, or .223. Nothing all that loud or obnoxious at all.

Expensive guns - I LOVE TO SEE THEM!!! No gun can be so expensive that I would think it is "obnoxious". In fact, about the only gun I might find obnoxious would be a 50 BMG pistol. Still, I'd love to see it!
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Old February 13, 2016, 03:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkbite
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooterdownunder
Someone waltzing in with an expensive F/A while everyone else can only afford a semi could be considered obnoxious.
I cant afford a 200mph Audi R8 ($250,000), but when i parked next to one at the In-n-out in Vegas last month..i appreciated the car.
This. Besides, isn't petty jealousy something we were taught to avoid back in kindergarten?

I can't afford machine guns, but if people like Tony didn't have machine guns it wouldn't bring me any closer to having my own. The only reason I've had the chance to shoot any full-auto guns since I got out of the Marines is because of collectors like Tony letting me shoot their guns. That's the opposite of obnoxious.
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