For Walther fans and dreamers...

[OhioGuy]

I had a chance to handle a CCP pistol this week. I didn't shoot it, just held it. I was immediately impressed by all the usual cool things about Walthers, like the grip. Then I realized it was made by Umarex but branded as Walther...a little research reveals that it doesn't appear to have quite the quality of the "real" Walther pistols.

What really blew my mind was "Oh, wow, I'm holding a pistol that's almost the size of a Glock 19, and it's a single stack with only 8+1 rounds????"

The grip is a little higher than 5", the length is the main dimensional difference from the larger pistols. But honestly, it isn't THAT much smaller than even the PPQ.

WHY make a pistol that size with half the capacity that it should have?

Anyway, if Walther were to make a doublestack compact version of its PPQ line, what features would you want to see?

- Just a chopped version of the PPQ, along the lines of the HK "sk" variants?
- Something really small, along the lines of an XD subcompact or even Glock 26?
- Exactly the same trigger that's on the PPQ now?
- Some manner of external safety, since so many seem to regard the PPQ trigger as too short/light for safe carry?
- A return of the "anti-stress" trigger from the P99AS?
- A decocking option, so you have the option of carrying in DA mode if you want, or otherwise carrying in the standard single action of the PPQ?

I was a little bummed when Walther's teased new handgun this week turned out to be a 4" version of the Q5. I was really hoping they'd unveil a compact. I have a PPQ .22, a Q5 match and a PPS M2. The standard PPQ is just a little too big for my carry needs, and the PPS is just a bit too small because I shoot doublestack guns better.

A PPQ Compact that's at least on par with the HK subcompacts just might make me take a plunge.

[wild cat mccane]

On paper the CCP doesn't appear small, but you held it? It's fairly small for not trying to be a pocket pistol.

Double stack sub compacts don't interest me at all all

Walther told me the NEVER had plans to bring the AS trigger system (decocker) into the PPS line up. I imagine decocking DA/SA Walthers will stay with the P99 and P99c.

[ZEBRARANGER]

I still have my first generation P99 AS. 17 years old and still running strong, its one of the best semi auto pistols that I've ever owned. The only issue that I've had with it was that once I lost the detent pin on the rear sight, Walther sent me another one at no cost.

[Longhorn1986]

Umarex is the parent company of Walther. Bought them in 1993.

[Fishbed77]

- Just a chopped version of the PPQ, along the lines of the HK "sk" variants?

It exists. It's called the P99c AS.

The only difference from what you're describing is a safer trigger system with a better feel.

[otasan]

Is made in Germany, right. I prefer the 9mm made in Austria - the great Glock 17. I've been carrying one since 1990.

[OhioGuy]

Originally Posted by Fishbed77

It exists. It's called the P99c AS.

The only difference from what you're describing is a safer trigger system with a better feel.

Can one find a mag extender for the compact magazine that also increases capacity? I see those for Glock and H&K models...gives your pinky some room to breathe, and it adds 2 rounds to the 10 round mag. I see extenders for the P99 but not with capacity.

I've called every gun store within 45 minutes of me, and none has a P99 that I could actually go and handle.

Are the ergonomics much different from the PPQ? They certainly look different in photos, and that's one of the things I most love about the PPQ.

[otasan]

Originally Posted by OhioGuy

Can one find a mag extender for the compact magazine that also increases capacity? I see those for Glock and H&K models...gives your pinky some room to breathe, and it adds 2 rounds to the 10 round mag. I see extenders for the P99 but not with capacity.

I've called every gun store within 45 minutes of me, and none has a P99 that I could actually go and handle.

Are the ergonomics much different from the PPQ? They certainly look different in photos, and that's one of the things I most love about the PPQ.

My gun store is 65 miles away in Hooksett, NH - Rileys.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by OhioGuy

Can one find a mag extender for the [P99] compact magazine that also increases capacity?

Not to my knowledge, although I'm almost certain that P99 full-size mags will function in the P99c, just with the bottom sticking out.

Originally Posted by OhioGuy

Are the ergonomics much different from the PPQ?

Yes. The P99 has a different grip contour with less aggressive stippling. The trigger sits farther forward and lacks a safety "dingus." The trigger guard is a different shape. The [EDIT] slide release is smaller and lower-profile, which I like because it's harder to actuate by accident. Finally, the P99 has only been produced with paddle-style mag releases, whereas the the PPQ is available either way; the M2 has buttons, whereas the Classic aka "M1" (not an official Walther designation but commonplace on gun forums) has paddles.

The paddles vs. buttons debate is highly subjective and IMHO not worth rehashing here at any length; however, it's worth mentioning that the [EDIT] paddle-release and button-release mags are incompatible with one another, while used paddle mags are more common because the P99 and its licensed copies (the S&W SW99 and MR Eagle) have been around much longer.

[otasan]

Originally Posted by carguychris

Not to my knowledge, although I'm almost certain that P99 full-size mags will function in the P99c, just with the bottom sticking out.
Yes. The P99 has a different grip contour with less aggressive stippling. The trigger sits farther forward and lacks a safety "dingus." The trigger guard is a different shape. The mag release is smaller and lower-profile, which I like because it's harder to actuate by accident. Finally, the P99 has only been produced with paddle-style mag releases, whereas the the PPQ is available either way; the M2 has buttons, whereas the Classic aka "M1" (not an official Walther designation but commonplace on gun forums) has paddles.

The paddles vs. buttons debate is highly subjective and IMHO not worth rehashing here at any length; however, it's worth mentioning that the mags are incompatible, and used paddle mags are more common because the P99 and its licensed copies (the S&W SW99 and MR Eagle) have been around much longer.

You sure know your Walthers. How are things in TX?

[Fishbed77]

Are the ergonomics much different from the PPQ?

They are different in that the P99 has less aggressive texturing on the grip. However, the "feel" of the full-size P99 in hand is about the same as the PPQ (which is just a variant of the P99 - a similar pistol to the PPQ is marketed as the P99Q or P99 RAD in other countries). The compact P99c AS will obviously feel different.

t's worth mentioning that the mags are incompatible

Current production P99 mags (and the identical -other than branding- Magnum Research MR9 mags) are compatible with the PPQ M1, which shares the paddle release the P99AS. This is not the case with the PPQ M2.

Can one find a mag extender for the [P99] compact magazine that also increases capacity?

Full-size P99 magazines are fully compatible with the sub-compact P99c AS. Grip extenders are available to give you a full grip when using full-size magazines in the P99c AS:

https://www.amazon.com/Walther-Grip-.../dp/B00I6OI9Y6

[OhioGuy]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

On paper the CCP doesn't appear small, but you held it? It's fairly small for not trying to be a pocket pistol.

Double stack sub compacts don't interest me at all all

Walther told me the NEVER had plans to bring the AS trigger system (decocker) into the PPS line up. I imagine decocking DA/SA Walthers will stay with the P99 and P99c.

Yes, I've held it. It's noticeably shorter than the PPS, for instance, but almost the same height and not much slimmer.

For comparison, the XD Subcompact (which is my primary do-everything gun) is .25" shorter than the CCP, .35" shorter in height, and the same width...and holds 13+1 rounds.

The XD-e single-stack (DA/SA) is about the same length and height as the CCP, but considerably narrower, and still holds the same round count.

I'm not saying the CCP is large, nor hard to conceal. Just that its capacity is extremely low for its size, vs. other options.

[doofus47]

OhioGuy,
just get the grip extension and run full-sizes 15 round mags with the 99c

I do use the 10 round magazine with finger hook when running compact myself.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by Fishbed77

Current production P99 mags (and the identical -other than branding- Magnum Research MR9 mags) are compatible with the PPQ M1, which shares the paddle release the P99AS. This is not the case with the PPQ M2.

That's what I meant. Basically, the paddle pistols (P99, PPQ Classic/"M1", SW99, MR Eagle) take one type of magazine, while the button pistols (PPQ M2) take another. I thought that the context in my earlier post made this clear but I've edited it to clarify.

FWIW there is a minor issue using early P99 and SW99 (paddle) magazines in later-production paddle pistols because the front wall of the early magazines is taller to mate with the smaller early feed ramp. However, this can easily be addressed by filing or Dremeling the front wall of the magazine down. OTOH the paddle and button mags have magazine release notches in different places, making it considerably more difficult to modify a magazine to work in the other type of pistol; in this case, I would recommend buying the correct magazine, rather than attempting to modify the other kind.

[ttarp]

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but wasn't the CCCP's claim to fame that the slide is supposedly considerably easier to rack than conventional pistols? I imagine it would be a chore to fit a gas piston system in much smaller of a pistol.

[otasan]

Originally Posted by ttarp

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but wasn't the CCCP's claim to fame that the slide is supposedly considerably easier to rack than conventional pistols? I imagine it would be a chore to fit a gas piston system in much smaller of a pistol.

I forget what CCCP stands for.

[OhioGuy]

So, if Walther were to produce a PPQ model identical in size to the P99AS Compact, who would buy one?

Would it fill a Walther shaped hole in your collection?

It just might, for me.

Even people who have no concerns at all about carrying chambered striker-fired guns seem very hesitant to consider carrying the PPQ. I've shot a lot of guns, and I can't say that the trigger feels necessarily lighter to me than most others...just shorter and cleaner. They claim 5.5 lb (thereabout) for the pull weight. That's about what I have on my XD. The XD just has a lot more pretravel and a longer reset.

My mind tells me that if I'm comfortable carrying a Glock, XD, M&P and other similar guns, the PPQ would be no different.

[otasan]

CCCP is an abbreviation for Russia, right?

[ttarp]

The old USSR abbreviation in Cyrillic letters. Sorry for the pun, I've been tempted to buy a CCP, get an additional C, and a star engraved, and filled in red.

[Fishbed77]

So, if Walther were to produce a PPQ model identical in size to the P99AS Compact, who would buy one?

I for one would not. The DA/SA P99c AS trigger just makes much more sense in a CCW role than the light single-action trigger of the PPQ.

That is not to say that I don't carry pistols with constant action triggers like the Glock or M&P Shield. But the PPQ trigger pushes the comfort level for me.

[otasan]

Originally Posted by ttarp

The old USSR abbreviation in Cyrillic letters. Sorry for the pun, I've been tempted to buy a CCP, get an additional C, and a star engraved, and filled in red.

Thanks!

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by Fishbed77

The DA/SA P99c AS trigger just makes much more sense in a CCW role than the light single-action trigger of the PPQ.

That is not to say that I don't carry pistols with constant action triggers like the Glock or M&P Shield. But the PPQ trigger pushes the comfort level for me.

+1. I find the PPQ trigger to be too light for a carry gun with no double-action stage or thumb safety. This is, however, a highly subjective matter.

To be fair, I feel the same way about the HK VP9 and the Canik TP9SA/SF/SFx/SF Elite.

[otasan]

Originally Posted by carguychris

+1. I find the PPQ trigger to be too light for a carry gun with no double-action stage or thumb safety. This is, however, a highly subjective matter.

To be fair, I feel the same way about the HK VP9 and the Canik TP9SA/SF/SFx/SF Elite.

Glock started the "no thumb safety" craze.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by otasan

Glock started the "no thumb safety" craze.

Yes, but factory-stock Glocks have a much longer and heavier trigger pull than the pistols I discussed. Their trigger are IMHO simply too short and light to give me a peaceful easy feeling while holstering.

OTOH I will carry a Glock, P99, or non-thumb-safety M&P without hesitation.

[Fishbed77]

Glock started the "no thumb safety" craze.

Not really. There have been semi-auto pistols for may decades before the Glock without thumb safeties. The Tokarev TT springs to mind, although it was not intended to be carried with a round chambered. Even then, there were many DA/SA or DAO designs prior to the Glock (with or without decockers) that could be carried safely with a round in the chamber and not utilize a manual safety (outside of said decocker).

Granted, the Glock did make manual safety-less constant-action trigger designs popular.