Powder Choices for 223 Bolt Gun

[roc1]

What are good powders for the 223? I have a Remington bolt action I want to load for. I have on hand now Varget,H4895,H4831,H380,IMR4064,H4350. i load for several calibers but just got a 223. I have heard good things about Benchmark and BL-C2 but have no experience with either.
Thanks
roc1

[4runnerman]

best i have found
H-335--Most popular by far
varget--Right up there with H-335
RL-15- Usually with heavier bullets.

BL-C2- is another good one also

[Idaho Spud]

Hodgdon Benchmark - accuracy & velocity great in my Tikka WTH. Haven't tried 'em all, of course, but haven't had to.

[Unclenick]

Depends on your bullet weight. The slower powders mentioned do very well with heavier bullets. At about 55 grains and below I get better inter-rifle accuracy consistency with Reloader 10X or IMR 4198. Either of those powders and the flat base 53 grain Sierra MatchKing do very well for me out to 200 yards. I move up to the 77 grain MatchKings beyond that range (in a 8" twist barrel).

[jeepster11]

using varget and it looks like it does ok

[jeepster11]

Group from my ar 15 at 100 yards I hope you can see them the pic is dark my group is low but I just have to adjust my sight

[NESHOOTER]

BL-C2 is more temp sensitive(higher pressures when exposed to sun), W-748 extends barrel life,(ball powder) TAC is good for me (sphercial meters nice), Exterminator is also less (sphercial meters nice) and I am loading some new loads up in H4198 less amnt required to reload so I have to say its on trial. I reloading for a 1-7 26'' barrel using 40,50,60 gr bullets all varmiant bullets. With a range trip within next week or so.

[billnourse]

I have shot Benchmark, H335, Varget, and H322. I found that Benchmark and Varget worked the best for me with no noticable difference in the two as far as accuracy or speed. I use Benchmark because it takes a little less that Varget to get the same results.

Bill

[m&p45acp10+1]

I use H-335 for 55 grain bullets exclusively. 25.o grains with 55 grain FMJBT, and Hornady V-Max. with very good results.

For 68 to 69 grain BTJHP match bullets I use either Varget, or Reloader 15. Have had good results with both. I have used Acurate Arms 2015 for them with good results as well.

[Jim243]

I use H335 for 55 grains or less and H4895 for 60 grains or heavier. Have started using IMR 8208 XBR for 60 grain and is excelent (a little hot so start low).


Jim

[williamd]

H322 or H335.

[FrankenMauser]

Don't be afraid to try slow powders.

I run W780 in my .220 Swift and .243 Win. It's roughly equivalent to 4831, but gives me great results out of 23" (.243) and 26" (.220 Swift) barrels - even with bullets that may not be considered heavy-for-caliber. Most people think it should only be used in cartridges larger than the .270 Win, but performs fantastically in my "odd" applications.

[Unclenick]

You're not talking .223 cases, though. The more overbore a case gets, the slower the powder you can use effectively because the opening the expansion as the bullet goes down the bore represents is smaller change in powder volume (the expansion ratio is smaller). It's like having a smaller "leak" to the confinement of the powder, so pressure builds more readily. 780 in a 223, even with a heavy 80 grain bullets, needs to be over 115% compressed just to get to normal operating pressures.

The reason to be afraid of slow powders with light bullets is secondary pressure spikes. This is a written description of the first barrel Charlie Sisk destroyed with secondary spikes from using a slow powder with a light bullet. More often the spikes are smaller than that, but may be large enough to ring a bore.

Quotation from RSI's web site with express permission from owner Jim Ristow:

Originally Posted by RSI

I recently had the occasion to work with a friend's .223 Douglas barrel that had shot perhaps 6,000 rounds of an off brand ball powder sold as "Data 2200" {which produces secondary spikes}. . . The owner shot around 2,000 rounds of the load through the barrel each season, then re-chambered his good ol' shooter as the throat washed out. When I looked down the barrel with a bore scope I could see rings just down from the muzzle spaced exactly the amount that was removed from the chamber end each time the barrel was re chambered. This convinced me secondary pressures will eventually damage a good barrel.

[roc1]

I have thought about H335,Benchmark and BL-C2. I wanted to try different ones. I have Varget and H4895 already. Just wanted to try some different powders but want good results and not be stuck with something I can not use.
Thanks
roc1

[FrankenMauser]

I guess I didn't explain enough in my post.

I'm not suggesting you use W780 in .223 Rem.

I just wanted to make sure the slow powder option was pointed out. For .223, I probably wouldn't go any slower than the 4895/4064/W748 class of powders. (For me. My loads. My rifle.)


Unclenick, Charlie Sisk later points out that his testing showed a great variety of loads to cause secondary pressure spikes, including factory ammo and 'average' bullet weights (not just light stuff). Without using heavy-for-caliber bullets, there is no good way to completely negate the chance of secondary spikes.

The only methods proven to work are:
Chopping the barrel to a point that the bullet exits before the secondary spike hits.
Using pressure testing equipment that 99% of us can't afford, or can't justify purchasing.

Although I wouldn't mind discussing this a bit more....

I am usually a bit of a Safety Nazi in the reloading forum; so I'm going to side with Unclenick, and suggest avoiding slower powders with light bullets. (I also don't want to drag this thread any further off topic.)

[Unclenick]

I've measured small secondary spikes in M2 ball loaded with WC852 (H380)and a number of other commercial loads, too. I believe that's one reason Sisk was doing the demos; trying to get the ammo makers aware, since they don't have a means to measure it currently. The main thing is to avoid extreme secondary spikes that exceed the main charge peak pressure. Low ones may be ignored if your accuracy is good. I generally find the most extremely accurate loads don't have one, so that's a clue someone without a Pressure Trace or similar instrumentation can use: if the accuracy is exceptional, it is less likely the load has a serious secondary spike.

You're correct that this is dragging the matter off the OT. I need to go put a final post in the Pressure Trace thread.

[Sidewinder72]

H-335 for me. In AR or bolt gun. True sub moa. Bad on yotes.

[Scorch]

IMR3031 or Varget for light bullets and accuracy work
H335 or BLC-2/W748 for ease of loading or XTC shooting

[A_Gamehog]

I missed the part where you said your .223 twist rate?

That dictates your bullet weights, which dictates the Power that's usable.

1). Have your twist rate and barrel length.

2). Choose a bullet that will function in that twist.

3). Choose a powder that is proven in that weight range.

Then have someone run Quickload to give you a starting point.

[roc1]

1 in 9 twist rate 22 inch barrel.Remington 700.Have a bunch of 50-55 gr VMax bullets. It did not like 68gr so much as you would expect.
Thanks
roc1

[jdwilson0906]

BENCHMARK, measures easy, shoots awesome, and lower charge than varget. If your gun likes hotter loads varget will be compressed.

[Unclenick]

Roc1,

One in 9 will actually stabilize the 77 grain Sierra MatchKing because it is short for its weight. Nonetheless, particularly at close range, flat base bullets are easier to make shoot tight groups than boattails are. Boattails can require you to pay more attention to finding the best seating depth, keeping the bullet and case necks coaxial on the finished ammunition, and are more affected by any tiny imperfection in the muzzle crown. They also take longer to go to sleep (recover from pitch and yaw induced at the muzzle), so you might need to be shooting at 300 yards to start seeing an advantage to them. You might look at the 63 grain Sierra varmint bullet. Likewise, either the 62 or 64 grain Berger varmint match bullets. All flat base.

[ocharry]

a friend of mine that i used to shoot whistle pigs with had a remington in 223 and he was loading imr4895 under a 52gr,,sierra or speer hollow point,,IIRC it was a boat tail bullet

i have a ruger 223 and it likes imr4198 or the H4198 and a hornady 53gr hollow point,,this bullet is flat base

both of these rifles preform excellent with these bullets,,,i mean like one ragged hole excellent,,,my ruger is zeroed at 175yrds. and i have a target around here in my load files that has a 5 shot group and all 5 holes are touching,,,lol,,i stopped at 5 ,,why push your luck,,lol

my .02 YMMV

ocharry

[Unclenick]

That 53 grain bullet and 4198 are my best accuracy load, too, and are what I shoot at the 200 yard line in matches in the AR. I only go heavier at 300 yards and out because of wind.

You're correct that the 52 grain bullet is a boattail. I first found out about the flat base accuracy advantage trying to get that 52 grain BT to shoot from a .222 Rem (14" twist) and it would group twice as large as the inexpensive flat base Hornady 50 grain soft point. Later, the 53 grain flat base Sierra came out, and it does better still.

Bryan Litz points out one reason for the difference is that a flat base is easier to manufacture perfectly square and symmetrical than is the departure of the base taper from the bottom of the bearing surface of a boattail. That's critical to getting muzzle blast to play off the base evenly as the bullet exits, which affects yaw. On top of that, the boattail takes longer to clear the edge lip of the muzzle, and that added dwell causes it to be influenced more by the muzzle blast to begin with. That gives it more yaw to recover from. In addition to that, for a given weight and nose shape, the flat base has a longer bearing surface to better align itself in the bore. For a given weight the flat base is usually shorter, which means it needs less spin, so it is inherently more stable coming out of the same twist barrel as the boattail is, which means it corrects the yaw faster.

[A_Gamehog]

Roc1,

You have the components right now for a really classic load for the 1-9 twist.

55 flat base V-Max heed Uncle Nick's advice flat base bullets rule in 300 yards or less.

25.0 grains of Varget

CCi450 mag primers, they do matter in Varget loads, and the powder is stable in hot weather.

Lake city brass, sorted by year. Or any brass sorted by year, don't mix the cases when working up loads.

10 shot groups under an inch all day.... The 60 Vmax is even better with the 1-9 twist but try this load first.

Load 5 and see for yourself how good they shoot, let us know.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Change the Bullet to 68 Hornady's and

24.5 grains of Varget

CCI 450 mag primer

Lake city brass.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Good luck!