Arguments for and against light mounted on one's CCW/HD pistol - Page 3

**44 AMP** · January 1, 2014, 01:12 PM

Light is good, light is your friend, BUT I don't think a light should be on a weapon. And for the reason often stated, pointing the light also means pointing the gun.

Now, as others have said, you don't have to point the light directly at the object (potential target), but unless you are a highly trained individual (and how many of us really are?) who never breaks training, then at some point, you WILL point the light (& gun) at someone.

Now, while this may not be bad tactics (depending on the situation) it certainly is bad manners.

The fact is that if you are awakened in the night, you don't know what is going on. The bad guy does. The only thing he doesn't know is if you are armed, unless you are one of the "rack the pump gun" types, or you announce you are armed.

I see no point to a light on a carry gun. Or more correctly, no point for me...
Added weight and bulk (even if not much) and questionable utility. Add in the fact that most holsters aren't made to fit a gun with a light...

I do find it somewhat humorous that some will explain how a full size gun is "too big" for CCW, and then they go on to choose a smaller gun, and add a light, which brings the total package back up to (or even possibly beyond) the size of that "too big" gun that they spurned...

You should do what makes the best sense to you, considering your personal situation. My situation is that I am not a cop, nor young and fit. I live in the country, in a small house, with one other person (and some pets). Outside of a (rare) power outage, there are some lights on in my house, 24/7. I have a yard light, and other than my car (a short distance from the front door, and not in complete dark, either) there are no things of significant value (or portability) outside my house. So, for me, the point of having a light attached to my defensive firearms is rather moot.

As to having a light when out and about, I'm still in the camp of "the light should not be on the gun". In my life, there is nothing that requires me to be out in dark places, and so, I rarely do it. Also, there is the consideration that a light, while useful, is not desperately needed, as absent night vision devices, the bad guy can't see in the dark any better than you can.

I'm not going to be clearing any dark buildings, nor do I have family members that might come and go in the middle of the night. My wife's 35lb shaggy mobile alarm system serves quite well, and is fairly cheap to operate (unless the price of treats goes up

).

your situation could be completely different, and you should evaluate things based on that, not on what any well meaning internet advice says. Take it under consideration, sure, but don't blindly follow it just because the author sounds like they know what they are talking about.

raimius · January 1, 2014, 07:16 PM

I disagree on a few points.

First, is that most people shoot significantly better using two hands. A mounted light allows this quite easily. I think that is the largest point in favor.

Second, being able to see as well as an intruder/attacker may not be enough. An intruder can assume anyone in the area is a threat. Most good guys need to be able to not only determine that there is a person, but they must also verify that the person is a threat.
(I had that exact thing happen at an airsoft event. I saw three people enter the building I was in, but I couldn't tell which side they were on. I had to illuminate them to make sure I didn't shoot my own teammates. Sadly, I also discovered the true fact that lights DO attract attention. I hit one adversary and just missed a second [guess I need work on target transistions!] when they hit me in the stomach.

Good thing it was just an airsoft game!)

**Frank Ettin** · January 1, 2014, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raimius

...most people shoot significantly better using two hands. A mounted light allows this quite easily. I think that is the largest point in favor...

Wow! Déjà vu. See post 29:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Ettin

Quote:

Originally Posted by raimius

I shoot a whole lot better with two hands,...

Which suggests to me that you might want to start training some more in one handed shooting. And there are some techniques which allow a good two handed grip on a pistol while holding a flashlight.

raimius · January 2, 2014, 11:42 PM

Yes, now show me that a significant portion of practiced shooters can shoot faster and more accurately with one hand, verses the Weaver, Chapman, or modified Iso. I'd be VERY surprised if there is research that shows one hand is better than two.

**Frank Ettin** · January 2, 2014, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raimius

Yes, now show me that a significant portion of practiced shooters can shoot faster and more accurately with one hand, verses the Weaver, Chapman, or modified Iso. I'd be VERY surprised if there is research that shows one hand is better than two.

If one learns how to manage a gun and separate flashlight properly, he won't be shooting one handed.

Nanuk · January 3, 2014, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Yes, now show me that a significant portion of practiced shooters can shoot faster and more accurately with one hand, verses the Weaver, Chapman, or modified Iso. I'd be VERY surprised if there is research that shows one hand is better than two.

It is largely situation dependent. I was doing some FATS training some years ago on a traffic stop scenario that turned into a shooting. The other people in the class found it interesting that the flashlight in my left hand never moved as I drew and shot the video BG three times.

A weapon mounted light is A tool.

armsmaster270 · January 3, 2014, 01:23 AM

I am a firm believer ih keeping flashlights separate from the weapon.
1. no chance of putting the muzzle on an unidentified innocent.
2. You can hold the light away from the body in case you draw fire.

It's old school but it still works.

Double Naught Spy · January 3, 2014, 08:19 AM

I like having a weapon mounted light. It means I always have a light with the weapon. I don't have to use it, but it is there if it is needed.

It can be hard to manipulate objects when each of your hands is busy holding 1) a pistol, and 2) a flashlight. It can be to clear a malfunction without first putting the light somewhere if it isn't weapon mounted.

People do not multitask one-handed very well, getting one hand to perform multiple functions at the same time, especially when stressed.

Quote:

If one learns how to manage a gun and separate flashlight properly, he won't be shooting one handed.

At that point, it is almost like having the light mounted on the gun, LOL.

JimPage · January 3, 2014, 08:36 AM

I shoot better with one hand than two. I have tried to learn 2 handed shooting, taken lessons, etc, but my scores are much better one handed. I may be the exception to the rule, but I really think decades of shooting one way will score higher than any different technique.

Obviously individuals vary so I question that one can make a valid blanket statement about which technique is best for all. As for the light, I use my non shooting hand to hold it if I need it.

January 1, 2014, 01:12 PM	#51
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,788	Light is good, light is your friend, BUT I don't think a light should be on a weapon. And for the reason often stated, pointing the light also means pointing the gun. Now, as others have said, you don't have to point the light directly at the object (potential target), but unless you are a highly trained individual (and how many of us really are?) who never breaks training, then at some point, you WILL point the light (& gun) at someone. Now, while this may not be bad tactics (depending on the situation) it certainly is bad manners. The fact is that if you are awakened in the night, you don't know what is going on. The bad guy does. The only thing he doesn't know is if you are armed, unless you are one of the "rack the pump gun" types, or you announce you are armed. I see no point to a light on a carry gun. Or more correctly, no point for me... Added weight and bulk (even if not much) and questionable utility. Add in the fact that most holsters aren't made to fit a gun with a light... I do find it somewhat humorous that some will explain how a full size gun is "too big" for CCW, and then they go on to choose a smaller gun, and add a light, which brings the total package back up to (or even possibly beyond) the size of that "too big" gun that they spurned... You should do what makes the best sense to you, considering your personal situation. My situation is that I am not a cop, nor young and fit. I live in the country, in a small house, with one other person (and some pets). Outside of a (rare) power outage, there are some lights on in my house, 24/7. I have a yard light, and other than my car (a short distance from the front door, and not in complete dark, either) there are no things of significant value (or portability) outside my house. So, for me, the point of having a light attached to my defensive firearms is rather moot. As to having a light when out and about, I'm still in the camp of "the light should not be on the gun". In my life, there is nothing that requires me to be out in dark places, and so, I rarely do it. Also, there is the consideration that a light, while useful, is not desperately needed, as absent night vision devices, the bad guy can't see in the dark any better than you can. I'm not going to be clearing any dark buildings, nor do I have family members that might come and go in the middle of the night. My wife's 35lb shaggy mobile alarm system serves quite well, and is fairly cheap to operate (unless the price of treats goes up). your situation could be completely different, and you should evaluate things based on that, not on what any well meaning internet advice says. Take it under consideration, sure, but don't blindly follow it just because the author sounds like they know what they are talking about. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 1, 2014, 07:16 PM	#52
raimius Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 2,199	I disagree on a few points. First, is that most people shoot significantly better using two hands. A mounted light allows this quite easily. I think that is the largest point in favor. Second, being able to see as well as an intruder/attacker may not be enough. An intruder can assume anyone in the area is a threat. Most good guys need to be able to not only determine that there is a person, but they must also verify that the person is a threat. (I had that exact thing happen at an airsoft event. I saw three people enter the building I was in, but I couldn't tell which side they were on. I had to illuminate them to make sure I didn't shoot my own teammates. Sadly, I also discovered the true fact that lights DO attract attention. I hit one adversary and just missed a second [guess I need work on target transistions!] when they hit me in the stomach. Good thing it was just an airsoft game!) Last edited by raimius; January 1, 2014 at 07:21 PM.

January 3, 2014, 01:23 AM	#57
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	I am a firm believer ih keeping flashlights separate from the weapon. 1. no chance of putting the muzzle on an unidentified innocent. 2. You can hold the light away from the body in case you draw fire. It's old school but it still works. __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.

January 3, 2014, 08:36 AM	#59
JimPage Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2010 Location: Rome, NY Posts: 941	I shoot better with one hand than two. I have tried to learn 2 handed shooting, taken lessons, etc, but my scores are much better one handed. I may be the exception to the rule, but I really think decades of shooting one way will score higher than any different technique. Obviously individuals vary so I question that one can make a valid blanket statement about which technique is best for all. As for the light, I use my non shooting hand to hold it if I need it. __________________ Jim Page Cogito, ergo armatum sum

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January 2, 2014, 11:42 PM	#54
raimius Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 2,199	Yes, now show me that a significant portion of practiced shooters can shoot faster and more accurately with one hand, verses the Weaver, Chapman, or modified Iso. I'd be VERY surprised if there is research that shows one hand is better than two.