Mag springs

Nathan · February 10, 2017, 09:28 AM

Weak mag springs cause ftf by not getting the round up in time.

Can overly strong springs cause issues? Except difficulty loading...

Walt Sherrill · February 10, 2017, 10:18 AM

The problem you describe seems most common when using hotter ammo, that speeds up cycling. Then extra strength springs seem an easy solution.

If there is a problem, it occurs when those new springs put a lot of extra drag (upward force) on the top round as that round is being pushed forward and stripped from the mag. It's not a common problem -- and typically gets better as the new springs take a "set". That can happen with some guns with (non-extra strength) factory mag springs.

Many folks (myself included) routinely get Wolff extra-strength mag springs when we get replacements.

T. O'Heir · February 10, 2017, 12:32 PM

Mag springs do not lose temper from being compressed. Flat springs can get work hardened at the bends over a very long service of being repeatedly compressed and uncompressed though. They still do not lose temper from being compressed. Even for a long time. Springs do not take a 'set' either.
Failures to feed are usually caused by bent mag lips. Doesn't take much to cause a failure or to fix it. Needle nosed pliers will fix bent lips. A slight opening tweak is all it takes.
The extra strength spring used for hot ammo is the recoil spring However, the Wolff mag springs are 5 or 10% stronger(A whole .6 lb more) than factory and are for use with a stronger recoil spring.

ShootistPRS · February 10, 2017, 03:44 PM

T O'heir,
You are mostly right. A new spring will take a set - they are typically designed to be at the rated length and pressure after being compressed to minimum length once. That being said you are right that a compressed spring (as long as it is not compressed to the yield point) will not lose tension no matter how long it is kept compressed. A spring builds internal heat if it is flexed at a rate over about 1/10 its compression range. Loading and unloading the spring quickly over a period of time will cause it to lose tension. A springs two worst enemies are heat and over compression. Mag springs will lose their tension faster if you empty the mag and reload it quickly than if you let it sit fully loaded.

Bill DeShivs · February 10, 2017, 07:17 PM

You will never shoot/reload fast enough to over heat (or, even HEAT) the mag spring!

ShootistPRS · February 10, 2017, 09:51 PM

That may be true bill but car springs fail over time because of cycling.

Walt Sherrill · February 10, 2017, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Mag springs do not lose temper from being compressed.

Most mag springs don't, but it can and does happen. Especially if they're kept compressed for long periods at or near they design limits. Some recoil springs will too. (The Wolff Springs FAQ area suggests downloading mags a round or two for long-term storage, but it probably only really necessary for hi-cap mags. A 1911 7-round mag spring will out live all of us if the mag is left fully loaded -- as that spring isn't being pushed anywhere near it's limit.

You see these kinds of failures mostly in hi-cap mags and in very small guns, like the Rohrbaugh R9 (where the recoil spring has a recommended service life of 250 rounds.) Why? Some gun designers need to cut corners to make things work (a very small gun shoots the same ammo as a larger one, or a mag that originally was made to hold 10 or 15 rounds now holds 17-21 rounds.) When you have to do the same or more work with less material, or more work with the same (spring metal) something has to give.

Cycling alone won't kill a spring UNLESS, when cycled it is compressed too far. Most aren't (Tappet springs in cars, for example may cycle many millions of times without failures -- they're not pushed past their limits.) Leaf springs and coil springs in cars generally don't fail, but it happens. The principle is the same.

Bill DeShivs · February 10, 2017, 11:06 PM

Car springs fail because of overloading and/or over compression.

Nathan · February 11, 2017, 08:57 AM

I love the commentary on springs in general....

Glock either shot the snot out of my pistol before shipping it to the store, or they were ng to start. I called about the warranty and was told my option was to ship the whole gun back at my expense and they would check it out. I asked for 2 mag springs and that was not an option...real perfection there!

So I bought 2 mag springs and it runs 100% now.

Walt Sherrill · February 11, 2017, 01:28 PM

The only problem I've ever had with Glock magazines was that the springs in the mag were so darned strong you needed a hydraulic jack to load them to full capacity. This went away over time, but 17 rounds in a Glock 17 was a challenge at first.

I've heard relatively few complaints about Glock mags failing -- that doesn't mean they don't fail, but it does mean that people don't complain about it a lot.

DMK · February 15, 2017, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Many folks (myself included) routinely get Wolff extra-strength mag springs when we get replacements.

I've had +5% and +10% solve ammo feed issues for me many times. I just had a pair of MecGar 18rd CZ mags give me feed issues. +10% Wolff springs solved the problem.

I've never had stronger mag springs cause an issue.

February 10, 2017, 09:28 AM	#1
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,331	Mag springs Weak mag springs cause ftf by not getting the round up in time. Can overly strong springs cause issues? Except difficulty loading...

February 10, 2017, 10:18 AM	#2
Walt Sherrill Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA Posts: 6,348	The problem you describe seems most common when using hotter ammo, that speeds up cycling. Then extra strength springs seem an easy solution. If there is a problem, it occurs when those new springs put a lot of extra drag (upward force) on the top round as that round is being pushed forward and stripped from the mag. It's not a common problem -- and typically gets better as the new springs take a "set". That can happen with some guns with (non-extra strength) factory mag springs. Many folks (myself included) routinely get Wolff extra-strength mag springs when we get replacements. Last edited by Walt Sherrill; February 10, 2017 at 10:27 AM.

February 10, 2017, 12:32 PM	#3
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Mag springs do not lose temper from being compressed. Flat springs can get work hardened at the bends over a very long service of being repeatedly compressed and uncompressed though. They still do not lose temper from being compressed. Even for a long time. Springs do not take a 'set' either. Failures to feed are usually caused by bent mag lips. Doesn't take much to cause a failure or to fix it. Needle nosed pliers will fix bent lips. A slight opening tweak is all it takes. The extra strength spring used for hot ammo is the recoil spring However, the Wolff mag springs are 5 or 10% stronger(A whole .6 lb more) than factory and are for use with a stronger recoil spring. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

February 10, 2017, 07:17 PM	#5
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	You will never shoot/reload fast enough to over heat (or, even HEAT) the mag spring! __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

February 10, 2017, 11:06 PM	#8
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	Car springs fail because of overloading and/or over compression. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

February 10, 2017, 03:44 PM	#4
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	T O'heir, You are mostly right. A new spring will take a set - they are typically designed to be at the rated length and pressure after being compressed to minimum length once. That being said you are right that a compressed spring (as long as it is not compressed to the yield point) will not lose tension no matter how long it is kept compressed. A spring builds internal heat if it is flexed at a rate over about 1/10 its compression range. Loading and unloading the spring quickly over a period of time will cause it to lose tension. A springs two worst enemies are heat and over compression. Mag springs will lose their tension faster if you empty the mag and reload it quickly than if you let it sit fully loaded.

February 10, 2017, 09:51 PM	#6
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	That may be true bill but car springs fail over time because of cycling.

February 11, 2017, 08:57 AM	#9
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,331	I love the commentary on springs in general.... Glock either shot the snot out of my pistol before shipping it to the store, or they were ng to start. I called about the warranty and was told my option was to ship the whole gun back at my expense and they would check it out. I asked for 2 mag springs and that was not an option...real perfection there! So I bought 2 mag springs and it runs 100% now.

February 11, 2017, 01:28 PM	#10
Walt Sherrill Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA Posts: 6,348	The only problem I've ever had with Glock magazines was that the springs in the mag were so darned strong you needed a hydraulic jack to load them to full capacity. This went away over time, but 17 rounds in a Glock 17 was a challenge at first. I've heard relatively few complaints about Glock mags failing -- that doesn't mean they don't fail, but it does mean that people don't complain about it a lot.