Samuel Colt's Paper on Manufacturing Revolvers

Hardcase · December 6, 2011, 02:01 PM

Abby Mouat, over at Cornell Publications, has put some of her sparsely-ordered reprints on the Internet for the public's perusal, free of charge.

One of them is Col. Samuel Colt's paper "On the application of machinery to the manufacture of rotating chamber-breech firearms, and their peculiarities". It's from the Institute of Civil Engineers Proceedings of 1851.

The paper is less than 40 pages, but it's very interesting. At the end is an appendix by Charles Dickens, describing Colt's London factory.

This was back in the day when topics were presented in person before the members. The paper is actually a summary of Colt's presentation over the course of two days.

http://www.cornellpubs.com/downloads...5-colt-7mb.pdf

EDIT: Fixed the wandering URL

Hawg · December 6, 2011, 03:00 PM

Cool Beans.

Andy Griffith · December 7, 2011, 12:11 AM

Either the link isn't working now, or maybe they've decided since enough people know about it, now they'll sell it and pulled it.

pohill · December 7, 2011, 06:38 AM

Try this link:
http://www.archive.org/stream/onappl...e/n17/mode/1up

Look at page n17. Read the part that starts..."In the event of any abrasion of the end of the cylinder, or of the barrel..."
It talks about using the wedge (key) to adjust the barrel/frame connection as parts wear.

zullo74 · December 7, 2011, 08:54 AM

It first states that the arbor length is the primary means of setting the B/C gap.

pohill · December 7, 2011, 09:25 AM

True. But as things wear, the wedge is pushed further in to compensate.

zullo74 · December 7, 2011, 10:16 AM

They never wear in this regard. Set the arbor length correctly the first time and it is good for numerous lifetimes! Original guns still maintain the correct dimension. In repros, only Pietta has been getting it correctly.

arcticap · December 7, 2011, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zullo74

They never wear in this regard.

The steel used to make the originals wasn't the same that's used today.

pohill · December 7, 2011, 10:58 AM

Why did Colt include that section at all?

zullo74 · December 7, 2011, 11:26 AM

Arcticap,

I guess you did not read this part of my post ....

Quote:

Original guns still maintain the correct dimension.

Fingers McGee · December 7, 2011, 11:48 AM

Very interesting paper.

FM

pohill · December 7, 2011, 11:50 AM

Quote:

They never wear in this regard. Set the arbor length correctly the first time and it is good for numerous lifetimes! Original guns still maintain the correct dimension.

Based on what evidence or information?

I have a Colt 1851 .36 made in 1862. How would anyone ever know what the original setting of the wedge was, or if the wedge had been pushed in, or if there had been wear, etc?

zullo74 · December 7, 2011, 11:50 AM

Pohill wrote

Quote:

Why did Colt include that section at all?

He probably included it to impress people. He wrote something to that effect in his earlier patent document. Everything in a patent document does not always get done.

Quote:

How would anyone ever know what the original setting of the wedge was, or if the wedge had been pushed in, or if there had been wear, etc?

All you have to do is place the barrel on the frame without the wedge and measure the barrel to cylinder gap. If it is somewhere around .008-012, the arbor length is correct and the gun was fitted according to Colt's paper. This setting really does not change. There can be erosion at the forcing cone due to firing, in which case the wedge can't correct for this, but refitting the arbor can.

arcticap · December 7, 2011, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Arcticap,

I guess you did not read this part of my post ....

Quote:

Originally Posted by zullo74

Original guns still maintain the correct dimension.

So you're asserting that all of the original Colts ever made still maintain the correct dimension?

zullo74 · December 7, 2011, 02:12 PM

There is no mechanical reason that the dimension should change. The forces on the barrel assy. and arbor are forward, so the arbor hole isn't going to get deeper due to pounding. So I maintain that if an original gun was fit properly (as the Colt paper says) then the dimension will last.

pohill · December 7, 2011, 02:26 PM

I doubt that Sam Colt was trying to impress anyone 20 yrs after the advent of the Paterson. And as far as metal not wearing - that reminds me of the movie "My Cousin Vinnie" when he said to a witness, "Are you telling me that the laws of physics cease to exist in your kitchen?"

zullo74 · December 7, 2011, 02:32 PM

Sam Colt was a salesman. His Paterson venture went bankrupt. Of course he was trying to impress people 20 years after that!
Read my post again. The forces to change this dimension are not there. Take it or leave it. I know it's true and that's all that matters. You yahoos can think what you want. You are just looking to argue, and I'm through with the two of you on this matter.

pohill · December 7, 2011, 02:56 PM

OK OK, I surrender. Metal does not wear. I'm just a simple "yahoo"...now, is that the chocolate drink or the search engine?

HisSoldier · December 7, 2011, 04:23 PM

I found this paper to be immensely interesting, as a machinist with many CNC machines, the descriptions often hold true today.

In view of the wonderful advances brought forth by that one man, Samuel Colt, it is very wrong to speak ill of him or his character, as many have, since without his vision our technology would be far less advanced than it now is by this date.

I would dearly love to visit his shop of 1851, I know they had nothing better than carbon steel, as in our common files today, to make the many cutting tools with. One old timer told me that though they had to stay at what we consider to be ridiculously slow speeds they took heavy cuts using lard oil as a cutting oil.

With high speed steel of about 70 years later output would be increased 2 or 3 times, and time saved would also be in the savings of tool change time.

With carbide tools of today that increase would be 10 times or more, plus many other advances such as production grinding. I was shocked to hear that early Colt revolvers had gain twist rifling, which probably went away as an unnecessary complication, and rightfully so.

Smokin'Joe · December 7, 2011, 06:13 PM

Good find, Hardcase. Thanks for sharing.

Hawg · December 7, 2011, 06:45 PM

Seems to me that if the arbor hole is drilled to the right depth then the only thing that will really wear is the wedge. Maybe a nominal amount of wear to the edges of the wedge slot. I cant see driving the wedge in deeper changing cylinder gap. Now on a Uberti with the deep arbor hole it will change the gap. I don't know the setup on an original Colt but seems to me they would have the arbor hole drilled to the correct depth. I mean Sam Colt designed the thing, he oughta have known.

December 6, 2011, 02:01 PM	#1
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	Samuel Colt's Paper on Manufacturing Revolvers Abby Mouat, over at Cornell Publications, has put some of her sparsely-ordered reprints on the Internet for the public's perusal, free of charge. One of them is Col. Samuel Colt's paper "On the application of machinery to the manufacture of rotating chamber-breech firearms, and their peculiarities". It's from the Institute of Civil Engineers Proceedings of 1851. The paper is less than 40 pages, but it's very interesting. At the end is an appendix by Charles Dickens, describing Colt's London factory. This was back in the day when topics were presented in person before the members. The paper is actually a summary of Colt's presentation over the course of two days. http://www.cornellpubs.com/downloads...5-colt-7mb.pdf EDIT: Fixed the wandering URL __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae Last edited by Hardcase; December 7, 2011 at 10:43 AM.

December 7, 2011, 12:11 AM	#3
Andy Griffith Senior Member Join Date: May 14, 2009 Location: Macon Co. NC Posts: 591	Either the link isn't working now, or maybe they've decided since enough people know about it, now they'll sell it and pulled it. __________________ Barney Fife: "Nip it, nip it, nip it!" Andy Griffith:"Oh now Barn'...."

December 7, 2011, 06:38 AM	#4
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	Try this link: http://www.archive.org/stream/onappl...e/n17/mode/1up Look at page n17. Read the part that starts..."In the event of any abrasion of the end of the cylinder, or of the barrel..." It talks about using the wedge (key) to adjust the barrel/frame connection as parts wear. Last edited by pohill; December 7, 2011 at 07:26 AM.

December 7, 2011, 11:48 AM	#11
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Very interesting paper. FM __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

December 7, 2011, 04:23 PM	#19
HisSoldier Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2007 Location: Oregoncoast Posts: 1,793	I found this paper to be immensely interesting, as a machinist with many CNC machines, the descriptions often hold true today. In view of the wonderful advances brought forth by that one man, Samuel Colt, it is very wrong to speak ill of him or his character, as many have, since without his vision our technology would be far less advanced than it now is by this date. I would dearly love to visit his shop of 1851, I know they had nothing better than carbon steel, as in our common files today, to make the many cutting tools with. One old timer told me that though they had to stay at what we consider to be ridiculously slow speeds they took heavy cuts using lard oil as a cutting oil. With high speed steel of about 70 years later output would be increased 2 or 3 times, and time saved would also be in the savings of tool change time. With carbide tools of today that increase would be 10 times or more, plus many other advances such as production grinding. I was shocked to hear that early Colt revolvers had gain twist rifling, which probably went away as an unnecessary complication, and rightfully so. __________________ CNC produced 416 stainless triggers to replace the plastic triggers on Colt Mustangs, Mustang Plus II's, MK IV Government .380's and Sig P238's and P938's. Plus Colt Mustang hardened 416 guide rods, and Llama .32 and .380 recoil spring buttons, checkered nicely and blued.

December 6, 2011, 03:00 PM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	Cool Beans.

December 7, 2011, 09:25 AM	#6
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	True. But as things wear, the wedge is pushed further in to compensate.

December 7, 2011, 10:16 AM	#7
zullo74 Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 374	They never wear in this regard. Set the arbor length correctly the first time and it is good for numerous lifetimes! Original guns still maintain the correct dimension. In repros, only Pietta has been getting it correctly.

December 7, 2011, 10:58 AM	#9
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	Why did Colt include that section at all?

December 7, 2011, 02:12 PM	#15
zullo74 Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 374	There is no mechanical reason that the dimension should change. The forces on the barrel assy. and arbor are forward, so the arbor hole isn't going to get deeper due to pounding. So I maintain that if an original gun was fit properly (as the Colt paper says) then the dimension will last.

December 7, 2011, 02:26 PM	#16
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	I doubt that Sam Colt was trying to impress anyone 20 yrs after the advent of the Paterson. And as far as metal not wearing - that reminds me of the movie "My Cousin Vinnie" when he said to a witness, "Are you telling me that the laws of physics cease to exist in your kitchen?"

December 7, 2011, 02:32 PM	#17
zullo74 Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 374	Sam Colt was a salesman. His Paterson venture went bankrupt. Of course he was trying to impress people 20 years after that! Read my post again. The forces to change this dimension are not there. Take it or leave it. I know it's true and that's all that matters. You yahoos can think what you want. You are just looking to argue, and I'm through with the two of you on this matter.

December 7, 2011, 02:56 PM	#18
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	OK OK, I surrender. Metal does not wear. I'm just a simple "yahoo"...now, is that the chocolate drink or the search engine?

December 7, 2011, 06:13 PM	#20
Smokin'Joe Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2010 Posts: 211	Good find, Hardcase. Thanks for sharing.

December 7, 2011, 06:45 PM	#21
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	Seems to me that if the arbor hole is drilled to the right depth then the only thing that will really wear is the wedge. Maybe a nominal amount of wear to the edges of the wedge slot. I cant see driving the wedge in deeper changing cylinder gap. Now on a Uberti with the deep arbor hole it will change the gap. I don't know the setup on an original Colt but seems to me they would have the arbor hole drilled to the correct depth. I mean Sam Colt designed the thing, he oughta have known.