Shotgun shells

[Sphawley]

Can you reload shotgun shells? And if you can is it worth it?

I'm new to reloading so this could sound kinda stupid...

Thanks

[Brian Pfleuger]

Yes, you can. It is almost never worth it. The price of bulk shells is so low, and the cost of equipment is so high that the margin requires you shoot ALOT. I mean, A-L-O-T.

[rms2005]

with shells being $6+ for the cheapo 12ga, yea it saves me a good chunk of change plus much better patterns not to mention satisfaction of busting clays or birds with "your" shells and if you enjoy sitting at the reloading bench even better. broke down real quick it is around $75 to reload 400'ish shells(if you have saved your hulls) and that is buying small quantity. If you purchase bulk you can knock even more off the top. if you dont shoot a whole lot a single stage mec 600 jr or such can be had used for $60'ish.

[DaveTrig]

I had the same question a few months ago.

I don't usually, but I gotta disagree with the peetzaman. The cheapest I can find shells is at Wal-Mart, and it's still $6+/box for Winchester cheap-o. I am reloading for about $4.25/box. It's not a huge savings, but it adds up.

Plus, I load exactly what I want. I like to shoot 1oz of 7-1/2, and vary speeds from 1200-1280fps, and you just can't find that in the cheap stuff. My loads are more comparable to $7-8/box ammo.

As for equipment, it's not expensive at all. I found a MEC 600jr with a couple of charge bars, bushings, shell packer, and primer feeder on eBay for only $90, and I can crank out about 100-125/hour. It certainly doesn't match the speed of a progressive, but whenever I have an hour to kill I just go down and knock out 4-5 boxes.

Hope this helps -
- D

[oneounceload]

Sorry Peetza - that would be wrong - depending on your volume it can be VERY cheap and produce a better load.

I shoot between 12 and 15,000 rounds a year at sporting clays....I do NOT shoot the crap from wally world.........even the store bought Remington Gun Clubs, let alone STS or AA can be reloaded many times bringing the cost down to about $3.50/box or about half of the cheap garbage - it's a better load, it produces less recoil, and it patterns better.......end result is a shell 4X better for 1/4 the cost , or a 16X advantage for the money spent.....

At my rate, I can offset a $1,000 set up in about 6 months........a low volume shooter can offset a MEC Jr. in about 3 months

[oneounceload]

MEC Jr's are available used for about $50-60. Hulls you pick up are free.....buying wads, powder and shot in bulk with friends makes the cost VERY low - cheaper than metallic.....(and at a good shotgun club more friendly and fun)

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by OneOunceLoad

Sorry Peetza - that would be wrong - depending on your volume it can be VERY cheap and produce a better load.

I shoot between 12 and 15,000 rounds a year at sporting clays....I do NOT shoot the crap from wally world.........even the store bought Remington Gun Clubs, let alone STS or AA can be reloaded many times bringing the cost down to about $3.50/box or about half of the cheap garbage - it's a better load, it produces less recoil, and it patterns better.......end result is a shell 4X better for 1/4 the cost , or a 16X advantage for the money spent.....

At my rate, I can offset a $1,000 set up in about 6 months........a low volume shooter can offset a MEC Jr. in about 3 months

Ok... well, I guess if you don't consider 1000-1200 rounds A MONTH to qualify under my "ALOT", then I'd be wrong.....

1200 rounds of 12ga anything is more than I will fire in my entire LIFE and I would guess that my numbers are far more typical than yours.

Like I said, if you're going to shoot A LOT then yes, reload shotgun. If your going to shoot a much more typical 25 or 50 rounds a year.... or even 1200 rounds a year, it's probably not worth spending $1000....

At David Trig's count of saving $1.25 a box, a cost of $1000 would take me 300 years to recoup.... even if you shot 1200 rounds a year, you'd only be saving $60 a year.

[rtpzwms]

Mec has a calculator on there web site where you can see for yourself what you might be saving. its not as much as reloading brass but something is better than nothing. and you get to customize the load to what you want. that is the best reason for doing it. I have rounds that are soft for my grandson and others for my wife and I give my son in law rounds that will put his shoulder in next week about three days before he gets there.... Just kidding he's a good guy.

[DG45]

I come from the other end of the spectrum than most of the guys on the forum. I don't shoot that much anymore, and I never reloaded anything in my life until recently. Then I started reloading shotshells by hand, just trying to make an old shotgun useful again by making my own "vintage" low powered loads, and discovered that I enjoy doing it.

The thing I like about reloading shotshells is that you can reload small quantities entirely by hand, with very little equipment, and what little equipment you do need is pretty much powered by elbow grease and is inexpensive. The only real problem I've had is finding small quantities of shot.

Does it save me any money? It may save a small amount per shell, but it really doesn't matter, because I wind up shooting the savings up, so I can reload the shells again. I'm not complaining. It's fun.

[B.L.E.]

I probably don't save that much money, but, how else am I going to obtain shells loaded with black powder for the black powder cartridge trap and skeet contests I often enter?

I probably don't save any money taking my motorcycle to work instead of my car either after I factor in the insurance, maintenance, and registration, but dang it, I love to ride that thing.

[sc928porsche]

Reloading shot shell is the same as reloading metalic when it comes to savings on ammo. If you are shooting 12ga 2 3/4 trap and light field, its going to require a lot of loading. If you are using 12 ga 3" or 3 1/2" the the savings can be seen easily. 16 ga. and 28 ga. are difficult to come by and are usually expensive. Reloading really helps with these.

I use the lee load all with the adaptors to load the other guages. Its a simple press and does a good job for me. I dont do a lot of shot shell firing, just hunting is all. I have shotguns in 410, 20, 16 and 12 guage 3".

[oneounceload]

TARGET grade 12 gauge ammo - AA or STS run $8/box. I can reload the same quality for $3.50 - half. 28 gauge runs $11/box. I can reload it for $3.20 - almost a quarter of the cost. My MEC Jr. can be found for $50 used. Add a scale and you're good to go - no case prep machines, no extra hand-primers, neck turners, deburrers, case tumblers. I buy components in bulk - primers by the sleeve of 5,000, wads by the case of 5,000, powder by the 8# jug, shot by at least the hundredweight, preferably by the ton.

As others have mentioned - loading specialty loads for BP, or older guns is cheaper than buying them.

1200 rounds of 12ga anything is more than I will fire in my entire LIFE and I would guess that my numbers are far more typical than yours.

Maybe you should ask folks who dove hunt, waterfowl or target shoot - there's a LOT more of us than your type using shotguns. One dove hunting operation in Argentina will use over 1,000,000 rounds per year for its clients - and that's just one place. Many target shooters here will shoot 50,000-100,000 rounds per year for practice.
Too bad Peetza - if your only experience with a shotgun is going to be 1200 rounds in a lifetime (and I'm thinking nothing but 00 buck), you're missing out on some great fun. Sporting clays is not only competition if you want it, it is also sociable and relaxing - why it's called "Golf with a shotgun".

Too many folks are so hung up on seeing a shotgun as only some 18" barreled pump for zombie hordes........too bad - you don't know what you're missing

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by OneOunceLoad

Too bad Peetza - if your only experience with a shotgun is going to be 1200 rounds in a lifetime (and I'm thinking nothing but 00 buck), you're missing out on some great fun. Sporting clays is not only competition if you want it, it is also sociable and relaxing - why it's called "Golf with a shotgun".

Too many folks are so hung up on seeing a shotgun as only some 18" barreled pump for zombie hordes........too bad - you don't know what you're missing

You've pegged me wrong, my friend. I've never fired buckshot from ANY shotgun, far from "nothing but". I have no use for the stuff, and it's not even legal for hunting in NY.

Sporting clays is something that I've tried, I enjoy and I have absolutely no time for it.

Bird hunting doesn't thrill me in the least.

Even so, let's say that I get into skeet shooting.... that's 25 rounds a week, what 15? 20? weeks a year? So, let's say I shoot a whole box a shells 52 weeks a year.... That saves me what, if I reload? $1.25 a box? $65 a year. If I spend $650 on equipment to reload, it takes me 10 years to make up for it. If I spend the $1000 that you suggest, it takes me 15 years.... and that's without figuring the interest that I could have been making on my $1000 for 15 years.

I don't know a single person that shoots 15,000 rounds of shotgun a year. Sure, they exist, I'm sure you're not the only one.... but until the OP comes in and says, "hey, I've been shooting 300 12ga rounds a week, can I do this cheaper?", the answer is no. If you shoot 25 rounds during pheasant season, or even 250, no, you can't do it cheaper.

On the flip side, if you enjoy reloading shotgun shells or you truly believe that you can make something that is so significantly better (and necessary) than anything you can buy, well, fine have at it. Load 'em up 'til the house is overflowing if that's what makes you happy.

On the other flip side, the savings are NOTHING like you can expect in metallic reloading. I can load all my rifle rounds, precision ammo, for 1/3 (or less) of the cost of store bought "generic" ammo. To match the in shotgunning, you'd have to be able to load 25 premium rounds, matching or exceeding the performance of high-end factory ammo, for $2.

[oneounceload]

Saves you more like $4/ box - typical skeet shooter will shoot at least 4 rounds, so 100 shells per week, aka 4 boxes, @ $4/box = $16/week times (conservatively) 40 weeks - =$560/year. minus the used MEC Jr. for $50, the reloader is paid for in a few weeks time........

Your shotgun shell costs are off, by over 25%, more if you consider 28 gauge.

TARGET loads, not the cheap wally world promo, run $8/box, cost to reload is $~$3.50. Half the cost. 28 gauge ammo costs $11/box (AA found at wally world). They can be reloaded for ~$3- ~$3.25 - almost one FOURTH the cost (don't forget sales tax on the $11).

The savings can equal or exceed most metallic reloading comparing quality reloads tailored to the gun versus quality factory ammo. And yes, shotguns are different just as each pistol and rifle is, and the loads need to be tailored to the gun

[DaveTrig]

Yes, Peetza, if you're only going to shoot less than 1200 rounds of 12ga in your lifetime, then no, reloading isn't worth it. I guess I assumed that if the OP was going to shoot shotgun as infrequently as you do, then he wouldn't be asking about reloading.

And my point previously was that my real savings is $3-4/box, because in order to get the loads I want, I have to step up to Rem STS. And while I don't shoot nearly as much as Oneounce, in just a couple of months I've reloaded about 1500 rounds, so even at $1.75/box savings, I've already recouped my investment.

[BigJimP]

I agree with OneOunce on this one....

But lets make sure we're talking about the same things here -- to shoot a round of Skeet or Trap takes 25 shells ( maybe a few more, if you get some broken targets that you have to shoot over ) so 26 - 28 shells per round...

In Sporting Clays - in my area - we seem to get more broken targets - so on True or Report pairs you need some extra shells .... If you have a station with a single target - it is a dead bird - if you hit it with the 1st or 2nd shell..so for a round of sporting clays ( 100 birds ) I assume I will shoot 125 shells.

Even casual clay target shooters like me - shoot about 6 rounds of Skeet a week ( 150 shells a week ) ....at 50 wks a year that's 7,500 shells. Throw in a few rounds of Trap / 4 rounds a month ..100 shells a month / another 1,200 shells a year. 5 Stand --- 8 rounds a month ( 35 shells a round ) 280 or call it 300 a month ..another 3,600 shells a year. Sporting clays 3 rounds a month / 300 targets / another 375 shells a month or 4,500 shells a year ....so just using that math .... 16,800 shells a year easily.

16,800 shells = 672 boxes a year...

Competition shooters on the other hand / shoot easily 20,000 Registered targets a year just in one game ( like Sporting Clays ) ...and there are a lot of them... / now add in the weekly practice of another 6 or 8 boxes of shells a week ...its another 10,000 shells a year easy ...or 30,000 shells a year... Yes, it is an expensive hobby ...but we all, already know that ... ( and then we mix in target fees, gas, food, etc ) and its gets real expensive ...which is kind of sad ...but it is, what it is...

At $3.50 a box for my 12ga 1 oz reloads today ...vs even $ 6 a box for cheap loads on a retail basis ( like Estate or Rio's) is still giving you a savings of $2.50 a box. 672 boxes a yr X $ 2.50 a box = $ 1,680 a yr...savings.

I use Mec Hydraulic machines / 9000 HN's ...and today they retail for about
$ 900 buy payback is about 7 months for me on that machine. I use the hydraulic because I think it gives me a little more consistent crimp / because of the consistent hydraulic pressure - and its fast ( easily 20 boxes an hour or 500 shells ). But Mec makes a number of manual machines in the $ 400 range ...where the payback is even faster...

Loading metallic will save you far more / but in my view - you will get a better load than any of the cheap shells ( like Estate and Rio) ...and save some money.

Even if you only shoot 8 boxes a month / 10 months a year ....that's still 80 boxes a year ... and saving $2.50 a box ....it still saves you $200 a yr / and you'll pay for a good loader in a couple of yrs.

But for most of us it isn't about the savings / its about loading our own shells --- passing the knowledge down to the kids and grandkids --- and it becomes part of the shooting hobby. I'd reload even if the savings was a wash ....

[Brian Pfleuger]

Yes, Peetza, if you're only going to shoot less than 1200 rounds of 12ga in your lifetime, then no, reloading isn't worth it. I guess I assumed that if the OP was going to shoot shotgun as infrequently as you do, then he wouldn't be asking about reloading.

I didn't assume. See my first post. Yes, you can save money, if you shoot A LOT.

OneOunceLoad comes to say I'm wrong, and uses 15,000 rounds a year as an example.... which seems to be covered by my "A LOT", because I don't know anybody that wouldn't consider shooting almost 300 rounds of shotgun a week to be "a lot".

Seems a bit like we're quibbling over whether it's "a half dozen" or "six".

If you shoot A LOT, like a hell of a lot, yes, shotgun reloading can save you money, probably a lot of money.

If you're "normal" and shoot anything less than several thousands of rounds a year, then no, it's not going to save you much money.

Like I said, if you enjoy then do it even if it COSTS you more than you save.... but if you DON'T enjoy it, don't do even if it saves you money, unless you "have to".

[BigJimP]

there is no "normal" here .... Its whatever you want to shoot ...or can afford to shoot...

But even if you shoot 50 boxes a yr ....saving $ 2.50 a box ...is still
$ 125 in savings ...that will amortize a loader over time ....

Reloading for the savings is probably a poor idea / you should consider reloading if you think you'll like it. In the long run / you will save money - but it will go into the hobby / usually in terms of shooting more .... ( or help you justify shooting more ) ...

[zippy13]

Originally Posted by Sphawley

Can you reload shotgun shells? And if you can is it worth it?

Perhaps we need to take a closer look at Killa's posting, it may mislead the OP.

Like all reloading, obviously a threshold, or break even point needs to be met or it doesn't make sense to reload. To many thousands of shot-gunners, without the savings of reloading they would be shooting a lot less, or not at all. Poll the contestants at any clay target match and you'll find that the non-reloader is the exception. Saying that reloading is "almost never worth it" indicates an ignorance of the shotgun sports.

Bulk, el cheapo, or promotional loads are fine for the new shooter who doesn't have the experience to recognize the vast difference in performance between them and quality target or game loads. If your shooting skills don't tell you the difference, then open up some shells for a comparison. From the end to end (hull, primer, powder, wad and shot) the difference in quality will be readily apparent. Also, with the promotional loads, they aren't tailored to meet a shooter's specific demands that can found in quality ammo and reloads. And, the cheap loads are typically limited to 12-ga. and the occasional 20-ga. If you want inexpensive 28s or 410s reloading is your only option.

I don't know what Killa means by "shot ALOT, A-L-O-T." It's all relative. When I first really got the bug, I worked form home and my schedule was very flexible. I'd usually make it to the gun club five days a week and practice 5 or 6 rounds (125-150 targets) each time. Add two or three matches a month and it was easy to shoot around 35,000 targets, or 1,400 boxes of shells a year. Many of the other members shot a lot more than that, others less.

Sphawley, for now, you many not need to run out and buy a reloader; however, may I suggest that you do select quality ammo and keep the boxes and once-shot hulls. If you decide not to reload, the supply of empties is marketable and you'll have had the advantage of shooting with the better ammo. But, if you do decide to reload, it's so much easier with name brand quality hulls. If you check the archives, you'll find examples of folks who are having difficulties trying to load off-brand hulls.

In Killa's defense, it's not surprising that he may not be totally up to speed shotgun wise -- he doesn't have the time. If you check his postings, you'll see that he's well versed in a very broad cross section of shooting and shooting related activities. Let's hope that someday he can find the time to really enjoy the shotgun sports.

[oneounceload]

But even if you shoot 50 boxes a yr ....saving $ 2.50 a box ...is still
$ 125 in savings ...that will amortize a loader over time ....

And if you're only shooting 50 boxes per year (figuring a few practice rounds and then some hunting), you most likely wouldn't be using BigJim's progressive, but a MEC Jr. - which just got paid for. Even if all you reload is hunting ammunition - they cost more for good stuff than the target ammo - you will save even more per box than a target shooter, AND you get to load something your particular gun likes.

I don't shoot a lot of rifle anymore, but I still reload for each one because I can tailor the load to my particular gun's little nuances. Shotguns are no different

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by zippy13

I don't know what Killa means by "shot ALOT, A-L-O-T." It's all relative. When I first really got the bug, I worked form home and my schedule was very flexible. I'd usually make it to the gun club five days a week and practice 5 or 6 rounds (125-150 targets) each time. Add two or three matches a month and it was easy to shoot around 35,000 targets, or 1,400 boxes of shells a year. Many of the other members shot a lot more than that, others less.

You guys astonish me sometimes.

My 4 year old knows what "a lot" means.

Common sense: If the OP was shooting 10, 20, 30,000 shotgun shells a year then he would be doing it with other guys and he wouldn't have started yesterday. As such, he would KNOW that it's possible to reload, he would KNOW that almost everyone else who shoots 30,000 rounds a year was reloading their own and he would talk to some of those people about what THEY know.

Therefor, I conclude that the OP is not shooting 10 or 20 or 30,000 rounds a year. Could I be wrong? Yes, I could. Until the OP comes back and answers that question, I doubt it.

You don't have to shoot 30,000 rounds a year to wonder if reloading is possible or worth doing. I wondered and investigated shotgun slug reloading because I got sick of paying $15 a box for quality sabot slugs. Guess what? It's not only difficult to find the components to load sabot slugs but it's prohibitively expensive when you only shoot a few boxes a year.

I wondered and asked about it.... and I shoot 15 or 20 slugs a year, less if I can.

[BigJimP]

You're right peetzakilla,

We are approaching this from 2 different perspectives ....you're shooting 50 or less sabot slubs a year ...which makes little or no sense to me because I don't see where there is any fun in it ...but to each his own...( but I don't own / or like to shoot Tactical Shotguns either ... ) except on a rare occasion.

Many of us shoot 15,000 shotshells or more a year at clay targets which makes no sense to you....( and I think I'm a casual shooter / and I don't shoot a lot .. ) which apparently makes no sense to you.

I agree - reloading sabot slugs ...probably makes no sense / but why not reload "00" buck or some other tactical load ....if you enjoy shooting tactical shotguns ?

[oneounceload]

And it depends on your financial position - three of the folks I shoot with (and one is couple, so 4) do not reload, even for 28 gauge. These folks shoot more than I do - over 20,000 per year - they just buy it by the pallet.....if I had that kind of money, I'd do the same. I see it with folks shooting pistol - way too many shooting 40 and 45 and letting the brass sit (well, not for long with others around).

I have just dropped my 20 gauge loads to 3/4 and my 12 to 7/8 snd now 3/4 as well. Reloading lets me do that

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by BigJimP

We are approaching this from 2 different perspectives ....you're shooting 50 or less sabot slubs a year ...which makes little or no sense to me because I don't see where there is any fun in it ...but to each his own...( but I don't own / or like to shoot Tactical Shotguns either ... ) except on a rare occasion.

Many of us shoot 15,000 shotshells or more a year at clay targets which makes no sense to you....( and I think I'm a casual shooter / and I don't shoot a lot .. ) which apparently makes no sense to you.

I don't shoot slugs for fun, Jim. In fact, the reason that I shoot 15 or 20 a year is because it's NOT fun. I only shoot what it takes to verify that my gun is still sighted and kill whatever deer I happen to get a chance to shoot. In fact, I now have an Encore handgun, so I'm hoping to shoot ZERO slugs this year.

It's not that shooting 15,000 shells doesn't make sense to me. Hell, I might do it if I had time.

What doesn't make sense to me is two things.

One, confusion over what is "a lot". "A lot" doesn't depend on what some other guy shoots, as if 30,000 is only a lot if nobody else shoots 45,000. We all know what "a lot" is, and it's not necessarily a fixed number, like 4999 isn't a lot but 5000 is. If you shoot "a lot", you know it. If you don't shoot "a lot", you also know it. Just because you shoot 5000 rounds a year and some other guy shoots 50,000 doesn't suddenly mean that 5000 is not "a lot".

Two, the assumption that the OP shoots "a lot". Let's face it, if you don't shoot "a lot" then reloading shotshells doesn't make much sense financially. Somewhere in between "a lot" and not "a lot", is break-even type territory. That area where it might or might not makes sense, depending on the goals, financial situation, available time and whether or not reloading is enjoyable to the person in question.

Sure, we all make assumptions. I assume that the OP would know a lot more about reloading if he shot a lot and shot with other people who shoot a lot. That assumption makes much more sense than assuming that he shoots 30,000 rounds a year and knows nothing about it.

[snuffy]

Does loading shotshells make sense today?

Yes! Oh I know how wally world and the other big box stores have those economy packs of shotshells. But if you took one of those econo shells apart, you would find soft chilled shot, a small charge of very fast powder, and the cheapest thin wad they could find. Loaded inside a hull that’s NOT made to be reloaded, in some cases attempting to reload them could be dangerous.

Now take one or more of those cheapy shells to the pattern board. Ummm, you do pattern your shotgun,,,right? No? Then how do you really know how the chokes really work? Anyway, the cheapo shells will have blotchy patterns, holes a bird, rabbit, or clays could sit in unharmed!

You can not reload shells cheaper than those econo shells. Can’t be done! Especially with what shot, powder, primers, and wads cost these days. Why would you WANT to?

What you want to load are shells that are as good as, or even better than the top of the line target shells put out by Winchester, Remington, and Federal. That would be the AA, STS and gold medal. To do that you must either buy the loaded shells, shoot them to get empties, or buy once fired empties. The new AA is no where near as good as the older compression formed AA. That leaves the STS and gold medal.

To duplicate the performance of the original loading, you need to buy all top of the line components. No skimping here. Magnum shot,(don’t let that name fool you), is high antimony shot. It’s harder than plain old chilled shot. The hardness translates into better patterns. It’s what the factory STS and others target shells have in them. Wads; The big 3 all sell their wads for reloading. They all work, but you can save some $ by buying claybuster wads. They’re made to the same dimensions as the wad they’re replacing, just cheaper. Some say the plastic isn’t as soft, but I’ve found them to work just fine. Powder; Just about any of the shotshell powders will work well. Just be sure of your recipe and follow it exactly. Primers; Again they all work well, be sure to match them to your recipe.