Trying to identify an unusual M16 flash hider

Gholam · August 16, 2002, 10:37 AM

Instead of the normal "birdcage" with 6 or 5 slots, it has four pairs of round holes, with the holes' axis angled forward. Looks like the one on Minimi Para, but the holes are in pairs, not in triplets. All in all, it looks like this:

Anyone got any idea what it is?

M700 · August 16, 2002, 11:39 AM

Looks to be an AK74 style brake I think. Allthough the 4 sets of round holes don't sound familiar. Is it like this:?

Gholam · August 16, 2002, 11:57 AM

No, it's like this:

But instead of 3 holes in each row, there are only two, and shape is somewhat different as well. Most likely source is some US commercial AR15 flash hider - I saw this one mounted on a sawn-off M16 carbine.

Onslaught · August 16, 2002, 12:42 PM

Is this it?

This one is a DPMS Panther compensator. I imagine what you're talking about is at least similar in function. They are designed as a combination supressor/brake to keep the short little carbine level in full-auto.

I kinda like the looks of this one myself:

It's still a brake, but looks more like a normal flash supressor.

I don't suppose you're talking about the newscast regarding the Indian officials being killed? Some Special forces looking BADA$$ had an 11.5" M16 with something similar on the end, and the new SIR front end. It was TOOOO sweet.

Gholam · August 16, 2002, 12:53 PM

Without the radial slots, it would be close, yes.

And no, I didn't see it on TV - I'm active duty in IDF, the rifle in question was carried by an officer I chance met. Unfortunately, he doesn't know what this thing is from either.

Onslaught · August 16, 2002, 01:02 PM

Cooooool.... Shoulda checked out your location earlier. Hey, maybe that was the same officer I saw on TV?

I tried to find some video of it, but ABC wants $4.95 a month for me to view any of their video online.

I doubt a traditional flash supressor would do much good on the short-16's, so the muzzle brake is probably a very welcome addition when firing full auto.

Kalashnikov must have felt the same way, since the AK and it's variants originally have the 'AK brake' or at least have the slanted muzzle cut for stability.

The AK brake is considered one of the best combat muzzle stabilizers out there.

Gholam · August 16, 2002, 01:14 PM

Actually Onslaught, to the extent of my knowledge, that type of muzzle break was first mounted on PPSh-41.

RenegadeX · August 16, 2002, 01:44 PM

Sounds like a Mini Y-Comp. Check the Bushmaster site for more info.

Gholam · August 16, 2002, 01:52 PM

Similar, but not quite that - the holes are smaller, and are angled forward instead of backward. It's also mounted on a 14.5" light barrel cut down to somewhere around 11-12".

Onslaught · August 16, 2002, 02:25 PM

AH!!!

I still didn't put 2 & 2 together... I remember reading an article online (can't find it now) about how a Colt AR would be modified with an extremely short (10" or so) barrel by the Israeli IDF, and they attached a flash supressor/muzzle brake from some other indigenous weapon... Similar to the Galil Sniper Rifle, but not exactly. This combination together was/is supposed to be a status symbol of some sort.

The site I read originally also mentioned how these rifles had function problems because the barrel was TOO short to bleed gas properly before the bullet exited the muzzle, and since the barrel was originally 14.5", the gas system wasn't even designed to work like the 11.5" CAR...

DAMN I wish I could find that site... For the record, it is NOT http://www.isayeret.com .

Harley Nolden · August 16, 2002, 03:31 PM

Based upon the conversation and the photos, I think what you have is a "Muzzle Stabilizer." Although described as a muzzle break, by positioning of the holes, (L) or (R) will cause the muzzle to recoil (L) or (R) as in the case of Left and Right hand shooters.

I was resident gun smith for the Army when these were tested. I was also present when they were presented for Federal Law Enforcement, however, neither accepted it as a functional piece of equipment for a tactical or battle rifle.

I have attached a photo from the Military Testing files for your convenience. Possibly one of these will appear similar to what you are describing.

HJN

August 16, 2002, 10:37 AM	#1
Gholam Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2002 Location: Rehovot, Israel Posts: 161	Trying to identify an unusual M16 flash hider Instead of the normal "birdcage" with 6 or 5 slots, it has four pairs of round holes, with the holes' axis angled forward. Looks like the one on Minimi Para, but the holes are in pairs, not in triplets. All in all, it looks like this: Anyone got any idea what it is?

August 16, 2002, 11:39 AM	#2
M700 Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2000 Location: Setauket, NY Posts: 578	Looks to be an AK74 style brake I think. Allthough the 4 sets of round holes don't sound familiar. Is it like this:? __________________ Molon Labe!

August 16, 2002, 12:42 PM	#4
Onslaught Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 1999 Location: GA Posts: 1,749	Is this it? This one is a DPMS Panther compensator. I imagine what you're talking about is at least similar in function. They are designed as a combination supressor/brake to keep the short little carbine level in full-auto. I kinda like the looks of this one myself: It's still a brake, but looks more like a normal flash supressor. I don't suppose you're talking about the newscast regarding the Indian officials being killed? Some Special forces looking BADA$$ had an 11.5" M16 with something similar on the end, and the new SIR front end. It was TOOOO sweet. __________________ Yes Rico... KaBOOM!

August 16, 2002, 01:02 PM	#6
Onslaught Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 1999 Location: GA Posts: 1,749	Cooooool.... Shoulda checked out your location earlier. Hey, maybe that was the same officer I saw on TV? I tried to find some video of it, but ABC wants $4.95 a month for me to view any of their video online. I doubt a traditional flash supressor would do much good on the short-16's, so the muzzle brake is probably a very welcome addition when firing full auto. Kalashnikov must have felt the same way, since the AK and it's variants originally have the 'AK brake' or at least have the slanted muzzle cut for stability. The AK brake is considered one of the best combat muzzle stabilizers out there. __________________ Yes Rico... KaBOOM!

August 16, 2002, 02:25 PM	#10
Onslaught Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 1999 Location: GA Posts: 1,749	AH!!! I still didn't put 2 & 2 together... I remember reading an article online (can't find it now) about how a Colt AR would be modified with an extremely short (10" or so) barrel by the Israeli IDF, and they attached a flash supressor/muzzle brake from some other indigenous weapon... Similar to the Galil Sniper Rifle, but not exactly. This combination together was/is supposed to be a status symbol of some sort. The site I read originally also mentioned how these rifles had function problems because the barrel was TOO short to bleed gas properly before the bullet exited the muzzle, and since the barrel was originally 14.5", the gas system wasn't even designed to work like the 11.5" CAR... DAMN I wish I could find that site... For the record, it is NOT http://www.isayeret.com . __________________ Yes Rico... KaBOOM!

August 16, 2002, 11:57 AM	#3
Gholam Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2002 Location: Rehovot, Israel Posts: 161	No, it's like this: But instead of 3 holes in each row, there are only two, and shape is somewhat different as well. Most likely source is some US commercial AR15 flash hider - I saw this one mounted on a sawn-off M16 carbine.

August 16, 2002, 12:53 PM	#5
Gholam Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2002 Location: Rehovot, Israel Posts: 161	Without the radial slots, it would be close, yes. And no, I didn't see it on TV - I'm active duty in IDF, the rifle in question was carried by an officer I chance met. Unfortunately, he doesn't know what this thing is from either.

August 16, 2002, 01:14 PM	#7
Gholam Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2002 Location: Rehovot, Israel Posts: 161	Actually Onslaught, to the extent of my knowledge, that type of muzzle break was first mounted on PPSh-41.

August 16, 2002, 01:44 PM	#8
RenegadeX Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 265	Sounds like a Mini Y-Comp. Check the Bushmaster site for more info.

August 16, 2002, 01:52 PM	#9
Gholam Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2002 Location: Rehovot, Israel Posts: 161	Similar, but not quite that - the holes are smaller, and are angled forward instead of backward. It's also mounted on a 14.5" light barrel cut down to somewhere around 11-12".

August 16, 2002, 03:31 PM	#11
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	Based upon the conversation and the photos, I think what you have is a "Muzzle Stabilizer." Although described as a muzzle break, by positioning of the holes, (L) or (R) will cause the muzzle to recoil (L) or (R) as in the case of Left and Right hand shooters. I was resident gun smith for the Army when these were tested. I was also present when they were presented for Federal Law Enforcement, however, neither accepted it as a functional piece of equipment for a tactical or battle rifle. I have attached a photo from the Military Testing files for your convenience. Possibly one of these will appear similar to what you are describing. HJN