Airsoft for two?

Netzapper · May 3, 2015, 01:16 PM

My wife's a new shooter, and being a girl, didn't spend her boyhood playing soldier. Lots of things I find instinctive, she never developed. So to work on that, I bought a couple of high-quality airsoft guns that match our personal pistols. She's having fun working on point shooting, moving while shooting, etc.

But now she wants to shoot at me!

Does anybody have some good scenarios we could try out? Eventually, I'd like to try something like a home invasion... but, we should start simpler than that, shouldn't we? As it stands, we have access to plenty of space, but there's not much cover out there.

(Also, before you suggest it... we are scheduled to take some defensive pistol classes this Fall.)

Slimjim9 · May 3, 2015, 03:25 PM

Quote:

I bought a couple of high-quality airsoft guns that match our personal pistols. She's having fun working on point shooting, moving while shooting, etc.

But now she wants to shoot at me!

Better make sure you don't mix them up!

Since you should train how you fight and fight how you train, I'd recommend drills that didn't involve shooting at each other. Maybe set up reactive targets?

g.willikers · May 3, 2015, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Better make sure you don't mix them up!

So your wife wants to shoot at you, eh?
Hmm.
"Gee officer, they look so much alike, it was an honest mistake - really it was."

Just a thought.
Ok, seriously:
If your wife doesn't actually have an ulterior motive, one drill to try would be draw and get off the X at one another - with the airsoft guns, of course.
Make sure your face and eyes are protected.
My better half sez thanks for the idea.

Netzapper · May 3, 2015, 04:10 PM

The airsoft pistols and our real ones aren't identical, and the airsoft ones have orange tips anyway.

"Since you should train how you fight and fight how you train, I'd recommend drills that didn't involve shooting at each other."

I guess I don't understand the logic here...

NateKirk · May 3, 2015, 05:10 PM

I wouldn't pay much attention to any naysayers on here that say that you shouldn't use the airsoft guns to practice. After all, in the actual sport of airsoft and paintball you shoot at each other. Even the army attaches laser equipment to their real rifles to train by playing glorified laser tag.

As far as airsoft guns go for training, I think you're thinking about it backwards. I would just play airsoft with her using the techniques that you use for real guns, instead of just training for the use of real guns with airsoft if that makes any sense.

Anyway it would be a lot more fun than just running target drills. And really, you are training to shoot at people anyway so....

Just remember safety first! Have fun

AK103K · May 3, 2015, 05:11 PM

Ive used them for a number of years now with friends and family. If you spend the money for the good ones, its money well spent. They work like the real thing, and fit your normal gear (holsters, etc). I just got rid of my SIG's last year, and Im looking to replace them with some Glocks and get back into it on a more regular basis.

Try any scenario that floats your boat, within reason, and youll get a good idea of whats going on. Just watch shooting them in the house. They can crack glass, and break knick knacks, etc, and the "bb's" arent fun to step on in bare feet on hardwoods.

We just wear our old paint ball face masks. Everything else, pain is a teacher (Its really not that big a deal unless youre a wuss).

Netzapper · May 3, 2015, 05:34 PM

"Just watch shooting them in the house. They can crack glass, and break knick knacks, etc, and the "bb's" arent fun to step on in bare feet on hardwoods. "

This is really good to know! After seeing them punch through aluminum cans, I was starting to wonder if they were a little too powerful for indoor use.

AK103K · May 3, 2015, 05:42 PM

Curtains will stop them, and towels make a good backstop for practice.

I made these for practice while shooting in the house. Cut out a rectangle for COM on your targets, and staple a towel on the back. Put a small tray at the bottom and the "spent bullets" fall into the pan (for the most part). The foam will stop them to, to a point, but if you keep them where they belong, you wont have to dig them out. They work great for draw and fire practice from your normal carry holsters.

Slimjim9 · May 3, 2015, 06:28 PM

Quote:

"Since you should train how you fight and fight how you train, I'd recommend drills that didn't involve shooting at each other."

I guess I don't understand the logic here...

I was thinking of the home invasion scenario you mentioned. Might be useful to think through some scenarios and figure out how you would work together to meet the threat.

Doc TH · May 4, 2015, 07:49 PM

In general, you have a good idea. Its usefulness depends on how you construct scenarios. A problem in responding to unwanted problems at home is their unexpectedness, and your suggestion could provide good training in reacting to the unexpected. In my own experience, kind of a "general quarters drill", which are nearly always helpful.

Sharkbite · May 4, 2015, 08:13 PM

There is NOTHING soft about airsoft at close range.

It will dent a parking lot sign and break skin thru a tshirt at gunfight distances

Netzapper · May 5, 2015, 09:59 AM

Quote:

There is NOTHING soft about airsoft at close range.

It will dent a parking lot sign and break skin thru a tshirt at gunfight distances.

To be honest, the pain is part of the point, isn't it? My wife and I tried some quick-draw stuff at 10 yards in the back pasture yesterday... super fun, and after she got hit the first time, she started to use evasive action to make my job harder. She stopped planting her feet before shooting, and started to shoot on the move. I don't think any of that would have happened if it didn't suck to get hit.

I also ordered a couple of these "CGB valves" (http://dangerwerx.com/cqb/). They drop the velocity on the rounds to something safe for use at close quarters. I'll wait till those come in before we start shooting at each other any closer.

Derbel McDillet · May 6, 2015, 03:44 PM

If you would like a good, in-depth understanding about projectile-based reality training (force-on-force using Airsoft) then I suggest the book "Training at the Speed of Life" by Ken Murray. You can find it on Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/Training-Speed.../dp/0976199408

Another book, "Force-on-Force Gunfight Training", by Gabe Suarez, provides basic force on force drills and scenarios - http://www.amazon.com/Force---force-...fight+training

Shooting at a live human target with Airsoft, under realistic conditions, provides a pain penalty when you make mistakes and helps condition you to perform under stress when a gun is pointed at you as well as helps you overcome the gun safety "taboo" of pointing a gun at another person. Just make sure you have appropriate safety equipment to prevent serious injury (eye/face/throat protection).

The biggest benefit is using it to develop/maintain your tactical decision-making skills and hone your ability to detect and react to threat cues.

Netzapper · May 7, 2015, 02:08 PM

Hey, those are great book recommendations! I'll check those out. (Wish they came in ebook.)

Rob228 · May 9, 2015, 01:55 PM

One thing to watch out for when using training aids like airsoft and simmunition is mistaking concealment for cover, as you get no barrier penetration with those training aids. People start to get it set in their minds that diving behind a couch means you're behind cover, as it will keep you from getting hit with the airsoft bb's.

g.willikers · May 10, 2015, 07:23 AM

You mean a bed sheet won't stop a bullet?
Very good point.

dirtd0g · May 10, 2015, 11:57 AM

Airsoft guns are great for practice.

You could have her with the weapon holstered while you stand several feet away and then rush her with a "knife" and let her practice getting the weapon out and firing from retention. Do it over and over again.

Wear some safety goggles and thick clothing.

T. O'Heir · May 10, 2015, 03:02 PM

Even high-quality airsoft guns are still toys and have noting whatever to do with real firearm training.
If she keeps pointing her toys at you sooner or later a neighbour will call the local constabulary and your front door will be smashed in by them on a "gun call".
"...then rush her with a "knife"..." Very stupid thing to even consider. Get you shot by the local constabulary. Charged and convicted at the very least.

Netzapper · May 11, 2015, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Even high-quality airsoft guns are still toys and have noting whatever to do with real firearm training.

My "local constabulary" uses airsoft in their own scenario training. Not exclusively, but they do incorporate it.

And I don't see any better, safe way for civilians to practice tactics. There's no point in training if you aren't ever practicing that training. You may as well just read the book at that point. And how do you practice tactics on a range?

For that matter, at any of the ranges I have access to, I can't even practice movement! How prepared can a person be if the only time they ever get to move and shoot is a few days a year at a class?

Of course it's not the same thing as a real firearm. But it seems there's more overlap than you're giving credit for...

Quote:

If she keeps pointing her toys at you sooner or later a neighbour will call the local constabulary and your front door will be smashed in by them on a "gun call".
"...then rush her with a "knife"..." Very stupid thing to even consider. Get you shot by the local constabulary. Charged and convicted at the very least.

Uhh... I find that hard to believe. It's not like we're doing this in the park. What would we even be charged with? I'm sorry you live with such constant anxiety.

**Frank Ettin** · May 11, 2015, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

Even high-quality airsoft guns are still toys and have noting whatever to do with real firearm training....

That is simply not true.

Airsoft guns can be used very effectively for training in a variety of ways. We use them in our Basic Handgun classes to help introduce beginners to basic marksmanship skills before taking them on the range for live fire. It works wonders.

More to the point of this thread, many excellent insturctors use them effectively for force-on-force training. Good airsoft equipment has a proven track record as a useful and effective training tool.

May 3, 2015, 01:16 PM	#1
Netzapper Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2005 Location: Gilpin county, CO Posts: 261	Airsoft for two? My wife's a new shooter, and being a girl, didn't spend her boyhood playing soldier. Lots of things I find instinctive, she never developed. So to work on that, I bought a couple of high-quality airsoft guns that match our personal pistols. She's having fun working on point shooting, moving while shooting, etc. But now she wants to shoot at me! Does anybody have some good scenarios we could try out? Eventually, I'd like to try something like a home invasion... but, we should start simpler than that, shouldn't we? As it stands, we have access to plenty of space, but there's not much cover out there. (Also, before you suggest it... we are scheduled to take some defensive pistol classes this Fall.)

May 3, 2015, 05:10 PM	#5
NateKirk Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2013 Location: Detroit Posts: 435	I wouldn't pay much attention to any naysayers on here that say that you shouldn't use the airsoft guns to practice. After all, in the actual sport of airsoft and paintball you shoot at each other. Even the army attaches laser equipment to their real rifles to train by playing glorified laser tag. As far as airsoft guns go for training, I think you're thinking about it backwards. I would just play airsoft with her using the techniques that you use for real guns, instead of just training for the use of real guns with airsoft if that makes any sense. Anyway it would be a lot more fun than just running target drills. And really, you are training to shoot at people anyway so.... Just remember safety first! Have fun __________________ “Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".” ― --Thomas Jefferson

May 6, 2015, 03:44 PM	#13
Derbel McDillet Junior member Join Date: September 6, 2013 Location: Kitsap County, Washington Posts: 316	If you would like a good, in-depth understanding about projectile-based reality training (force-on-force using Airsoft) then I suggest the book "Training at the Speed of Life" by Ken Murray. You can find it on Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/Training-Speed.../dp/0976199408 Another book, "Force-on-Force Gunfight Training", by Gabe Suarez, provides basic force on force drills and scenarios - http://www.amazon.com/Force---force-...fight+training Shooting at a live human target with Airsoft, under realistic conditions, provides a pain penalty when you make mistakes and helps condition you to perform under stress when a gun is pointed at you as well as helps you overcome the gun safety "taboo" of pointing a gun at another person. Just make sure you have appropriate safety equipment to prevent serious injury (eye/face/throat protection). The biggest benefit is using it to develop/maintain your tactical decision-making skills and hone your ability to detect and react to threat cues. Last edited by Derbel McDillet; May 6, 2015 at 04:15 PM.

May 10, 2015, 07:23 AM	#16
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	You mean a bed sheet won't stop a bullet? Very good point. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

May 10, 2015, 03:02 PM	#18
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Even high-quality airsoft guns are still toys and have noting whatever to do with real firearm training. If she keeps pointing her toys at you sooner or later a neighbour will call the local constabulary and your front door will be smashed in by them on a "gun call". "...then rush her with a "knife"..." Very stupid thing to even consider. Get you shot by the local constabulary. Charged and convicted at the very least. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

May 3, 2015, 04:10 PM	#4
Netzapper Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2005 Location: Gilpin county, CO Posts: 261	The airsoft pistols and our real ones aren't identical, and the airsoft ones have orange tips anyway. "Since you should train how you fight and fight how you train, I'd recommend drills that didn't involve shooting at each other." I guess I don't understand the logic here...

May 3, 2015, 05:11 PM	#6
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	Ive used them for a number of years now with friends and family. If you spend the money for the good ones, its money well spent. They work like the real thing, and fit your normal gear (holsters, etc). I just got rid of my SIG's last year, and Im looking to replace them with some Glocks and get back into it on a more regular basis. Try any scenario that floats your boat, within reason, and youll get a good idea of whats going on. Just watch shooting them in the house. They can crack glass, and break knick knacks, etc, and the "bb's" arent fun to step on in bare feet on hardwoods. We just wear our old paint ball face masks. Everything else, pain is a teacher (Its really not that big a deal unless youre a wuss).

May 3, 2015, 05:34 PM	#7
Netzapper Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2005 Location: Gilpin county, CO Posts: 261	"Just watch shooting them in the house. They can crack glass, and break knick knacks, etc, and the "bb's" arent fun to step on in bare feet on hardwoods. " This is really good to know! After seeing them punch through aluminum cans, I was starting to wonder if they were a little too powerful for indoor use.

May 3, 2015, 05:42 PM	#8
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	Curtains will stop them, and towels make a good backstop for practice. I made these for practice while shooting in the house. Cut out a rectangle for COM on your targets, and staple a towel on the back. Put a small tray at the bottom and the "spent bullets" fall into the pan (for the most part). The foam will stop them to, to a point, but if you keep them where they belong, you wont have to dig them out. They work great for draw and fire practice from your normal carry holsters.

May 4, 2015, 07:49 PM	#10
Doc TH Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2005 Posts: 633	In general, you have a good idea. Its usefulness depends on how you construct scenarios. A problem in responding to unwanted problems at home is their unexpectedness, and your suggestion could provide good training in reacting to the unexpected. In my own experience, kind of a "general quarters drill", which are nearly always helpful.

May 4, 2015, 08:13 PM	#11
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	There is NOTHING soft about airsoft at close range. It will dent a parking lot sign and break skin thru a tshirt at gunfight distances

May 7, 2015, 02:08 PM	#14
Netzapper Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2005 Location: Gilpin county, CO Posts: 261	Hey, those are great book recommendations! I'll check those out. (Wish they came in ebook.)

May 9, 2015, 01:55 PM	#15
Rob228 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Location: Hampstead NC Posts: 1,450	One thing to watch out for when using training aids like airsoft and simmunition is mistaking concealment for cover, as you get no barrier penetration with those training aids. People start to get it set in their minds that diving behind a couch means you're behind cover, as it will keep you from getting hit with the airsoft bb's.

May 10, 2015, 11:57 AM	#17
dirtd0g Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: New England Posts: 69	Airsoft guns are great for practice. You could have her with the weapon holstered while you stand several feet away and then rush her with a "knife" and let her practice getting the weapon out and firing from retention. Do it over and over again. Wear some safety goggles and thick clothing.