question on 40S&W loads

rvdoc · November 26, 2009, 10:06 PM

Wanting to load for a 40 S&W P250 semi automatic. I have Speer 10mm 180 gr .400 TMJ bullets and clays powder. I have checked everwhere and can't find how much powder to use. I found data on the hornady XTP in 180 grain with clays but not sure if this data would be save for the speer bullet. If the bullet weight is the same but not the same type of bullet, can you use the powder recomendations for this? Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving everyone

Randy 1911 · November 27, 2009, 03:55 AM

Yes you can. Start at the minimun. Just work up slowly watching for signs of pressure. I do it all the time.

Foxbat · November 27, 2009, 08:52 AM

As Randy said... the results for bullets of ***similar*** shape will be similar.

ALL data in the books is approximate, and in that sense you always need to develop ALL your loads, not simply pull the data for particular velocity you are trying to achieve.

SwampYankee · November 27, 2009, 06:08 PM

You have to be careful with XTP data. The XTP's have a larger cavity than most hollow points and obviously your TMJ does not have any cavity. That cavity means the XTP will fill up more case volume than a TMJ and the load will be reduced to compensate for the higher pressure. My guess is that an XTP load may not generate as much pressure when used on a FMJ bullet. The consequence may be FTF's. It would be better to get some data for your bullet or any 180 grain FMJ/TMJ. If you have to use the XTP data, don't make up 50 of them. Make up 10 to ensure you get proper function.

rvdoc · November 27, 2009, 10:38 PM

Tryed loading these bullets and this is the first time I needed to set up the RCBS die for a taper crimp. I'm doing something wrong because the brass is getting distorted after setting up the dies acording to the directions. I am thinking that I'm putting to much of a taper to the casings. Once the die touches the casing how far should you adjust die down? It didn't seem like there was much of a taper if I hardly tighten down the die after it contacts the casing. Thanks

SwampYankee · November 27, 2009, 10:48 PM

I have never had much luck doing a crimp and seating in the same operation. Some people can, I damage too many rounds to want to figure out how to do it properly. What I do (whether the crimp is taper or roll) is to wind the seating plug down so that when I seat, it does not crimp- the crimp is above the seater plug. I run through all my rounds, just seating them. Then I run the seating plug all the way back so it never touches a round. I adjust the depth of the die so that at first I get no crimp. As I slowly twist the die in, I can feel the crimp and visually see it. How much crimp you get is up to you but if you crimp too much, you build excessive pressure. If you crimp too little, you may get partial squib loads that jam in the barrel or bullet setback and too much pressure.

I find that if I do the operations in separate steps, I get perfect ammo that is all identical. And case length doesn't matter as much...

Be careful with .40 S&W. It goes from a normal pressure round to a dangerously high pressure round very quickly if you seat the bullet too deep.

Foxbat · November 28, 2009, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Tryed loading these bullets and this is the first time I needed to set up the RCBS die for a taper crimp. I'm doing something wrong because the brass is getting distorted

A typical problem with the combination die... buy the Lee Factory Crimp Die and live happily thereafter. Adjust them separately, predictably, with no interaction.

qcpunk · November 28, 2009, 04:21 PM

+1 SwampYankee

I do the same thing; split the seat/crimp step into two seperate steps. COAL is extremely important in the .40 and i have also found it difficult to reproduce exact results while trying to seat and crimp in the same step.

I have heard many great reviews on the Lee factory crimp dies, but have yet to use one myself.

I assume you are using Universal Clays from Hodgdon, yes? Well my Speer manual (#14) Has the data you are looking for....

.400" Speer TMJ 180gr, COAL 1.120", using Universal start: 5.3gr 802 ft/sec. MAX: 5.9gr 904 ft/sec.

rvdoc · November 29, 2009, 08:22 PM

Isn't universal and clays different powder? I did the seating and taper crimping in 2 differnet steps and that worked great. Thanks for that information. Didn't ruin any casings that way and still easy to set up. I loaded 15 casings, 5 with 3.0gr - 5 with 3.2gr - & 5 with 3.4 gr. I shot these and the first 2 with 3.0 & 3.2, I had some that failed to extract. When I shot the 3.4gr everything worked great. The recoil seemed less than with factory loads. I think i'm going to keep with the 3.4gr load and not increase to the 3.5gr max. Thanks for the help.

November 27, 2009, 03:55 AM	#2
Randy 1911 Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2009 Location: Western Arkansas Posts: 273	Yes you can. Start at the minimun. Just work up slowly watching for signs of pressure. I do it all the time. __________________ Been Reloading 27 Years NRA Member Member Old Fort Gun Club www.ofgc.org

November 26, 2009, 10:06 PM	#1
rvdoc Member Join Date: September 20, 2009 Location: Grand Rapids, MN Posts: 26	question on 40S&W loads Wanting to load for a 40 S&W P250 semi automatic. I have Speer 10mm 180 gr .400 TMJ bullets and clays powder. I have checked everwhere and can't find how much powder to use. I found data on the hornady XTP in 180 grain with clays but not sure if this data would be save for the speer bullet. If the bullet weight is the same but not the same type of bullet, can you use the powder recomendations for this? Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving everyone

November 27, 2009, 08:52 AM	#3
Foxbat Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2008 Posts: 367	As Randy said... the results for bullets of *similar* shape will be similar. ALL data in the books is approximate, and in that sense you always need to develop ALL your loads, not simply pull the data for particular velocity you are trying to achieve.

November 27, 2009, 06:08 PM	#4
SwampYankee Registration in progress Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: I can be found on a number of other forums. Posts: 1,333	You have to be careful with XTP data. The XTP's have a larger cavity than most hollow points and obviously your TMJ does not have any cavity. That cavity means the XTP will fill up more case volume than a TMJ and the load will be reduced to compensate for the higher pressure. My guess is that an XTP load may not generate as much pressure when used on a FMJ bullet. The consequence may be FTF's. It would be better to get some data for your bullet or any 180 grain FMJ/TMJ. If you have to use the XTP data, don't make up 50 of them. Make up 10 to ensure you get proper function.

November 27, 2009, 10:38 PM	#5
rvdoc Member Join Date: September 20, 2009 Location: Grand Rapids, MN Posts: 26	Tryed loading these bullets and this is the first time I needed to set up the RCBS die for a taper crimp. I'm doing something wrong because the brass is getting distorted after setting up the dies acording to the directions. I am thinking that I'm putting to much of a taper to the casings. Once the die touches the casing how far should you adjust die down? It didn't seem like there was much of a taper if I hardly tighten down the die after it contacts the casing. Thanks

November 27, 2009, 10:48 PM	#6
SwampYankee Registration in progress Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: I can be found on a number of other forums. Posts: 1,333	I have never had much luck doing a crimp and seating in the same operation. Some people can, I damage too many rounds to want to figure out how to do it properly. What I do (whether the crimp is taper or roll) is to wind the seating plug down so that when I seat, it does not crimp- the crimp is above the seater plug. I run through all my rounds, just seating them. Then I run the seating plug all the way back so it never touches a round. I adjust the depth of the die so that at first I get no crimp. As I slowly twist the die in, I can feel the crimp and visually see it. How much crimp you get is up to you but if you crimp too much, you build excessive pressure. If you crimp too little, you may get partial squib loads that jam in the barrel or bullet setback and too much pressure. I find that if I do the operations in separate steps, I get perfect ammo that is all identical. And case length doesn't matter as much... Be careful with .40 S&W. It goes from a normal pressure round to a dangerously high pressure round very quickly if you seat the bullet too deep.

November 28, 2009, 04:21 PM	#8
qcpunk Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Farmsville, AZ Posts: 305	+1 SwampYankee I do the same thing; split the seat/crimp step into two seperate steps. COAL is extremely important in the .40 and i have also found it difficult to reproduce exact results while trying to seat and crimp in the same step. I have heard many great reviews on the Lee factory crimp dies, but have yet to use one myself. I assume you are using Universal Clays from Hodgdon, yes? Well my Speer manual (#14) Has the data you are looking for.... .400" Speer TMJ 180gr, COAL 1.120", using Universal start: 5.3gr 802 ft/sec. MAX: 5.9gr 904 ft/sec.

November 29, 2009, 08:22 PM	#9
rvdoc Member Join Date: September 20, 2009 Location: Grand Rapids, MN Posts: 26	Isn't universal and clays different powder? I did the seating and taper crimping in 2 differnet steps and that worked great. Thanks for that information. Didn't ruin any casings that way and still easy to set up. I loaded 15 casings, 5 with 3.0gr - 5 with 3.2gr - & 5 with 3.4 gr. I shot these and the first 2 with 3.0 & 3.2, I had some that failed to extract. When I shot the 3.4gr everything worked great. The recoil seemed less than with factory loads. I think i'm going to keep with the 3.4gr load and not increase to the 3.5gr max. Thanks for the help.