Loading 45 colt for 2" judge

Jsnake711 · January 19, 2019, 01:11 AM

I got a deal on some new win. Brass and loaded some hornady 250gr with win 231 at 7.2gr. According to my manual max is 7.3gr. After reading a little about loading 45c or seems for a judge this could be too much as their data was for a 7"barrel. Is this ammo safe to fire from the judge as it's right at max. I also watched a video on the judge whe they used buffalo boar standard pressure ammo with no problems but it had a 200gr bullet where the are 250gr. This max rating is at 14k. I should have dug up more info about loading 45c before I started but I felt confident it'd be a safe load.

**44 AMP** · January 19, 2019, 02:17 AM

My Hornady manual lists 7.3gr as max with that powder and bullet, but note the test firearm. The one used in my manual was a Ruger Blackhawk Bisley.

Different guns have different strengths, but anything within SAAMI specs for pressure should be safe in any modern gun.

That being said, "safe" doesn't mean "best". It means "won't damage the gun".

That being said, different guns handle pressure differently. That's why there are different "max" loads in different manuals. Each combination of components and firearm CAN behave in unique, different ways.

Most fall within the middle of the bell curve, but your gun and ammo combination being at either end of the curve is always possible. That is why the standard advice for reloading is ALWAYS start below listed max and carefully work up to it. Many will recommend starting below the starting load. And below meaning 10-15% below.

I've seen guns that flattened or cratered primers and even stuck cases in the chamber at below listed book max loads. I've also seen guns that fired loads well over listed max with no noticeable effects at all.

You do not, and cannot know what your gun and ammo will do, until you fire it, and anytime you change anything, the total combined result can be changed. I remember as a beginning loader how it was frustrating to have to use up valuable components starting low and working up, it just seemed a waste to me. Until I had an ..incident. Then I gained a entirely new understanding.

Here's something I've personally seen, some .357 ammo, loaded hot, but slightly less than the listed max in the Speer manual of the day. Fired through 2 different revolvers, a semi auto, and carbine. The load was just picked out of the book, not worked up in the guns. One of the revolvers needed to have the cases driven out of the chambers with a rod and a hammer. The rest all worked normally.

You picked a very fast powder (231) a fairly heavy bullet, and you loaded just under a listed maximum. It MIGHT be ok, it SHOULD be safe, but no one can say with absolute certainty in YOUR gun, until it is fired.
You can run the risk, or you can tear down the ammo and then work up in steps until you are sure. Either way, you are the only one responsible for your own safety.

Another point I need to make, something you REALLY need to pay attention to when loading fast powders in large cases, and that is to only get ONE charge of powder in each case. A .45 Colt case will hold over 3 times the max charge of 231, and more than double the max of some other powders, and a double charge will turn any pistol into a grenade. The way I check is to put all charged cases in a loading block and (with a good light) check the level of powder in the cases is all approximately the same. Any high or low, the charge gets dumped and redone, and weighed. But, that's just me...

Welcome to TFL, we all started out about where you are, and we're here to share our experiences in the hope they'll help.

Don't be afraid to ask, even when it seems a stupid question. we've all been there many of us in the days before there were friendly folks on the internet to help.

Jsnake711 · January 19, 2019, 09:56 AM

I have a puller, wil they pull when with a crimp? The way I load is drop a charge ands immediately seat the bullet that way I can't double charge.

pete2 · January 19, 2019, 10:42 AM

That load would probably be OK but why not start 10% under max like the book says?
Start low and work your way up. It's a 2" gun, you ain't gonna get a lot of velocity anyway.

Jsnake711 · January 19, 2019, 12:20 PM

I know that's why I just went with that load, having a 2"barrel I'd be lucky to get 900fps. But after reading I wasn't sure it'd be safe.

**44 AMP** · January 19, 2019, 01:26 PM

Crimped bullets can be pulled. I recommend the hammer style inertia puller over the collet type press mounted ones. I've pulled hundreds of bad milsurp 7.62NATO with the Lyman hammer. It needs the right technique to work well, its not how hard you swing it, its how suddenly it stops that does the job. Most took 3-4 good swings, a few took 5-6. using a hard surface matters.

Wood, and even concrete allow a degree of cushion effect and decrease the efficiency of the inertia puller. I use the iron of an old wood stove for my "impact area" and it works well. Much better than the collet type press mounted pullers, I've had no end of frustration with them, the collet slipping off. etc.

Quote:

having a2"barrel I'd be lucky to get 900gps.

With the load you used, you won't be "lucky" to get 900fps, it would take a freakin miracle!!

My Hornady book shows 7.3gr Win 231 as max with the 250gr jacketed (XTP) bullet, and that load gave them 750fps from a 7.5" barrel.

900fps from a 2" barrel with that load? Ain't happenin', sorry.

TX Nimrod · January 19, 2019, 02:05 PM

OP, the Judge is not a weak action. Is it as strong as the Ruger? Don’t know, but the .410 is rated by SAAMI to 14,000 psi, same as the Colt. That said, Hodgdon’s “max load” is for weak 19th century designs. The Judge has a very long chamber for the .410, reducing pressure significantly. This is not the SAAMI chamber used in most reloading data!

The 7.3 grain load is fine to use in your Judge How can anyone determine the difference in pressure between 7.2 and 7.3 grains? Or between 6.3 and 7.3 for that matter? What are these excess pressure signs? Anyone?

If the OP wants more velocity he should use a different powder.
.

Jsnake711 · January 19, 2019, 03:34 PM

44amp, you'r right, I was looking at the 230gr with 7.3gr for 941fps sry. Which is what I wanted to load but couldn't get that bullet.

Reason I used 231 is because that's what I had on hand, I only used few times reloading some 9mm for a friend.

Maybe I should use cfe pistol it shows 8.8gr at 13.3k for 915. That'd give me better speed. Under 800 in Not sure this bullet will even expand.

January 19, 2019, 01:11 AM	#1
Jsnake711 Member Join Date: January 18, 2019 Posts: 95	Loading 45 colt for 2" judge I got a deal on some new win. Brass and loaded some hornady 250gr with win 231 at 7.2gr. According to my manual max is 7.3gr. After reading a little about loading 45c or seems for a judge this could be too much as their data was for a 7"barrel. Is this ammo safe to fire from the judge as it's right at max. I also watched a video on the judge whe they used buffalo boar standard pressure ammo with no problems but it had a 200gr bullet where the are 250gr. This max rating is at 14k. I should have dug up more info about loading 45c before I started but I felt confident it'd be a safe load.

January 19, 2019, 02:17 AM	#2
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,846	My Hornady manual lists 7.3gr as max with that powder and bullet, but note the test firearm. The one used in my manual was a Ruger Blackhawk Bisley. Different guns have different strengths, but anything within SAAMI specs for pressure should be safe in any modern gun. That being said, "safe" doesn't mean "best". It means "won't damage the gun". That being said, different guns handle pressure differently. That's why there are different "max" loads in different manuals. Each combination of components and firearm CAN behave in unique, different ways. Most fall within the middle of the bell curve, but your gun and ammo combination being at either end of the curve is always possible. That is why the standard advice for reloading is ALWAYS start below listed max and carefully work up to it. Many will recommend starting below the starting load. And below meaning 10-15% below. I've seen guns that flattened or cratered primers and even stuck cases in the chamber at below listed book max loads. I've also seen guns that fired loads well over listed max with no noticeable effects at all. You do not, and cannot know what your gun and ammo will do, until you fire it, and anytime you change anything, the total combined result can be changed. I remember as a beginning loader how it was frustrating to have to use up valuable components starting low and working up, it just seemed a waste to me. Until I had an ..incident. Then I gained a entirely new understanding. Here's something I've personally seen, some .357 ammo, loaded hot, but slightly less than the listed max in the Speer manual of the day. Fired through 2 different revolvers, a semi auto, and carbine. The load was just picked out of the book, not worked up in the guns. One of the revolvers needed to have the cases driven out of the chambers with a rod and a hammer. The rest all worked normally. You picked a very fast powder (231) a fairly heavy bullet, and you loaded just under a listed maximum. It MIGHT be ok, it SHOULD be safe, but no one can say with absolute certainty in YOUR gun, until it is fired. You can run the risk, or you can tear down the ammo and then work up in steps until you are sure. Either way, you are the only one responsible for your own safety. Another point I need to make, something you REALLY need to pay attention to when loading fast powders in large cases, and that is to only get ONE charge of powder in each case. A .45 Colt case will hold over 3 times the max charge of 231, and more than double the max of some other powders, and a double charge will turn any pistol into a grenade. The way I check is to put all charged cases in a loading block and (with a good light) check the level of powder in the cases is all approximately the same. Any high or low, the charge gets dumped and redone, and weighed. But, that's just me... Welcome to TFL, we all started out about where you are, and we're here to share our experiences in the hope they'll help. Don't be afraid to ask, even when it seems a stupid question. we've all been there many of us in the days before there were friendly folks on the internet to help. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 19, 2019, 12:20 PM	#5
Jsnake711 Member Join Date: January 18, 2019 Posts: 95	I know that's why I just went with that load, having a 2"barrel I'd be lucky to get 900fps. But after reading I wasn't sure it'd be safe. Last edited by Jsnake711; January 19, 2019 at 03:37 PM.

January 19, 2019, 09:56 AM	#3
Jsnake711 Member Join Date: January 18, 2019 Posts: 95	I have a puller, wil they pull when with a crimp? The way I load is drop a charge ands immediately seat the bullet that way I can't double charge.

January 19, 2019, 10:42 AM	#4
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	That load would probably be OK but why not start 10% under max like the book says? Start low and work your way up. It's a 2" gun, you ain't gonna get a lot of velocity anyway.

January 19, 2019, 02:05 PM	#7
TX Nimrod Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2009 Location: Zona Posts: 423	OP, the Judge is not a weak action. Is it as strong as the Ruger? Don’t know, but the .410 is rated by SAAMI to 14,000 psi, same as the Colt. That said, Hodgdon’s “max load” is for weak 19th century designs. The Judge has a very long chamber for the .410, reducing pressure significantly. This is not the SAAMI chamber used in most reloading data! The 7.3 grain load is fine to use in your Judge How can anyone determine the difference in pressure between 7.2 and 7.3 grains? Or between 6.3 and 7.3 for that matter? What are these excess pressure signs? Anyone? If the OP wants more velocity he should use a different powder. .

January 19, 2019, 03:34 PM	#8
Jsnake711 Member Join Date: January 18, 2019 Posts: 95	44amp, you'r right, I was looking at the 230gr with 7.3gr for 941fps sry. Which is what I wanted to load but couldn't get that bullet. Reason I used 231 is because that's what I had on hand, I only used few times reloading some 9mm for a friend. Maybe I should use cfe pistol it shows 8.8gr at 13.3k for 915. That'd give me better speed. Under 800 in Not sure this bullet will even expand.