Lee Factory Crimp Die

Clint Tickler · February 9, 2000, 10:29 AM

I have a factory crimp die in my Lee 300 Savage die set. Curious as to why in their instructions that they state that Speer recomends not using certain Lee dies on their bullets. Anyone know what the deal is.

Fred · February 9, 2000, 11:49 AM

Can't say for rifle dies, but for pistol dies, their rationale is that the bullet seater profile doesn't work well with all bullet shapes. For this reason, RCBS dies (same parent company as Speer) makes different shape seaters for different bullets.

That said, I use Lee dies for most of my handgun reloading - .38, 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and have no problems with bullet seating.

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Regards - AZFred

Clint Tickler · February 9, 2000, 12:53 PM

Thanks for the reply. I also use Lee dies, including factory crimp dies on all my handgun reloads. I was just getting ready to work up some loads for my newly aquired 300 Savage using some Speer 150 gr rn bullets when that caught my eye on the Lee data sheet that came with the dies. Maybe I don't need more then just a tension grip on the bullets as it is a rotary mag model 99 but the warning did make me wonder what the deal is. I'll check my other Lee data sheets when I get home to see if they all say the same thing.

Joefo · February 9, 2000, 03:42 PM

I had a problem with a Lyman 44 Mag seater die leaving a ring in the lead of 240gr hollow points. I called Lyman and they said to send them the die and a pulled bullet with this ring on it. I got back my original die and a custom cut seater for this particular round free of charge. Kinda hard to beat.

Joefo

Rock · February 11, 2000, 09:29 PM

Clint
About the time Lee came out with the factory
crimp die. Speer ran a lot of ads ref the Lee die stating that it reshaped the bullet by forming a indent or waist on the bullet from the extra pressure created by the die. I don't remember if the claim was that it also increased the bullet diameter in the adjoining area or not. Anyway it was something like that, I don't have any thing from that era to look it up in. I don't use them not that they are good or bad just haven't needed them.

johnnybravo · February 12, 2000, 06:57 AM

Clint, I use the Lee factory crimp die on the .223, .30-30, .30-06, and .45acp. I like it, especially with the .30-30, as it gives me a healthy crimp for the tube magazine. The pistol factory crimp die resizes the entire loaded round, where the rifle factory crimp die has a collet that just squeezes the mouth of the case against the bullet. Rock is on the right track. I believe some of the bullet manufacturers are concerned you might deform their bullet if you use the die on a bullet without a cannelure, then blaming poor performance on them. Hope this helps.

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johnnyb

Clint Tickler · February 12, 2000, 11:10 AM

Thanks for the info johnybravo and Rock. I use the factory crimp dies on my handgun ammo with good results. I probably don't need it for a rotary mag like the Savage 99 has anyway. Just wondered what was up with the warning. Maybe I'll try it and mic before and after. Clint

WESHOOT2 · February 13, 2000, 08:07 AM

The warning is based on Speer being concerned that the Lee die will separate the jacket from the core.

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"

Walt Welch · February 15, 2000, 02:16 PM

This was a big fracas between Speer and Lee about 6-8 years ago. Speer said that crimping the case mouth so that the bullet wall was deformed would cause inaccuracy. Lee countered with pics of groups, Speer countered with groups of their own, and it turned into a huge flame war.

I love the collet crimping die. I started reloading .223 a while back, and found out that the new brass varied enough in length to make a standard roll crimp very uneven. Since I HATE trimming cases, I just bought the collet die, which gave a nice uniform crimp, and excellent accuracy as well.

Walt

wildcat · February 16, 2000, 12:16 PM

I use the lee factory crimp to snug up the necks on my 7x57 with nosler balistic tips(no canlure).I know this is not recomended but I get some great groups.

February 9, 2000, 10:29 AM	#1
Clint Tickler Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 1999 Location: Seattle Area Posts: 184	I have a factory crimp die in my Lee 300 Savage die set. Curious as to why in their instructions that they state that Speer recomends not using certain Lee dies on their bullets. Anyone know what the deal is.

February 9, 2000, 11:49 AM	#2
Fred Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 1998 Location: CA Posts: 465	Can't say for rifle dies, but for pistol dies, their rationale is that the bullet seater profile doesn't work well with all bullet shapes. For this reason, RCBS dies (same parent company as Speer) makes different shape seaters for different bullets. That said, I use Lee dies for most of my handgun reloading - .38, 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and have no problems with bullet seating. ------------------ Regards - AZFred

February 9, 2000, 12:53 PM	#3
Clint Tickler Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 1999 Location: Seattle Area Posts: 184	Thanks for the reply. I also use Lee dies, including factory crimp dies on all my handgun reloads. I was just getting ready to work up some loads for my newly aquired 300 Savage using some Speer 150 gr rn bullets when that caught my eye on the Lee data sheet that came with the dies. Maybe I don't need more then just a tension grip on the bullets as it is a rotary mag model 99 but the warning did make me wonder what the deal is. I'll check my other Lee data sheets when I get home to see if they all say the same thing.

February 9, 2000, 03:42 PM	#4
Joefo Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 1999 Location: NY Posts: 165	I had a problem with a Lyman 44 Mag seater die leaving a ring in the lead of 240gr hollow points. I called Lyman and they said to send them the die and a pulled bullet with this ring on it. I got back my original die and a custom cut seater for this particular round free of charge. Kinda hard to beat. Joefo

February 11, 2000, 09:29 PM	#5
Rock Member Join Date: July 2, 1999 Posts: 25	Clint About the time Lee came out with the factory crimp die. Speer ran a lot of ads ref the Lee die stating that it reshaped the bullet by forming a indent or waist on the bullet from the extra pressure created by the die. I don't remember if the claim was that it also increased the bullet diameter in the adjoining area or not. Anyway it was something like that, I don't have any thing from that era to look it up in. I don't use them not that they are good or bad just haven't needed them.

February 12, 2000, 06:57 AM	#6
johnnybravo Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2000 Posts: 100	Clint, I use the Lee factory crimp die on the .223, .30-30, .30-06, and .45acp. I like it, especially with the .30-30, as it gives me a healthy crimp for the tube magazine. The pistol factory crimp die resizes the entire loaded round, where the rifle factory crimp die has a collet that just squeezes the mouth of the case against the bullet. Rock is on the right track. I believe some of the bullet manufacturers are concerned you might deform their bullet if you use the die on a bullet without a cannelure, then blaming poor performance on them. Hope this helps. ------------------ johnnyb

February 12, 2000, 11:10 AM	#7
Clint Tickler Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 1999 Location: Seattle Area Posts: 184	Thanks for the info johnybravo and Rock. I use the factory crimp dies on my handgun ammo with good results. I probably don't need it for a rotary mag like the Savage 99 has anyway. Just wondered what was up with the warning. Maybe I'll try it and mic before and after. Clint

February 13, 2000, 08:07 AM	#8
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	The warning is based on Speer being concerned that the Lee die will separate the jacket from the core. ------------------ "All my ammo is factory ammo"

February 15, 2000, 02:16 PM	#9
Walt Welch Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 1998 Location: Alamo, CA Posts: 424	This was a big fracas between Speer and Lee about 6-8 years ago. Speer said that crimping the case mouth so that the bullet wall was deformed would cause inaccuracy. Lee countered with pics of groups, Speer countered with groups of their own, and it turned into a huge flame war. I love the collet crimping die. I started reloading .223 a while back, and found out that the new brass varied enough in length to make a standard roll crimp very uneven. Since I HATE trimming cases, I just bought the collet die, which gave a nice uniform crimp, and excellent accuracy as well. Walt

February 16, 2000, 12:16 PM	#10
wildcat Member Join Date: December 20, 1999 Location: Northeast Kingdom of Vermont Posts: 88	I use the lee factory crimp to snug up the necks on my 7x57 with nosler balistic tips(no canlure).I know this is not recomended but I get some great groups.