Baikal .45-70 double

Oldman11 · July 31, 2018, 06:04 AM

There is a Baikal double .12 Gagne that has been made into a .45-70 complete with adjustable rifle sites. Barrels look to be either 16 or 18 inch’s long with full length .45-70 liners. Maybe take out one .45-70 liner and have a cheap 12x.45-70 cape Gun. But at $700.00 starting bid would it be worth bidding on?

noelf2 · July 31, 2018, 07:43 AM

I wonder if it would be more cost effective to get a Stevens 311 (or similar) for a couple hundred bucks, and have a barrel lined.

Oldman11 · July 31, 2018, 08:43 AM

It would be cheaper but it would be a single shot. I was thinking about using one side for 45-70 and the other side a 12 gauge. That way you could use buck or smaller shot and still have the 45-70.

Jim Watson · July 31, 2018, 08:45 AM

Question 1, how are the rifle inserts retained? Are the shotgun bores unaltered?

Question 2, 16 or 18 inch barrels? It matters. If you reconvert even one barrel to shot, it would not be legal under 18 inches.

I would just put sights on a double shotgun, adjust them to one barrel with slugs and load the other with buck.

drobs · August 1, 2018, 06:38 AM

Always wanted that setup but never got around to it.
Barrels are threaded in like choke tubes, I believe:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/781115411

noelf2 · August 1, 2018, 07:38 AM

Quote:

It would be cheaper but it would be a single shot. I was thinking about using one side for 45-70 and the other side a 12 gauge. That way you could use buck or smaller shot and still have the 45-70.

A Stevens 311 is a double barrel, and it is a better quality gun than a baikal.

**4V50 Gary** · August 1, 2018, 08:23 AM

What noelf2 said. Had a classmate work on a Bailkal. She did it for a coworker when she worked at Whittington Center to help pay for school. After seeing her struggle with it, all of us swore off owning one.

Note: It's one thing to work on one and quite another to have to work on it.

noelf2 · August 1, 2018, 11:29 AM

Another issue you could run into, besides the legality of the barrel length for the shotgun side, is extraction. If you take an insert out of one of the barrels, I doubt that the extractor will work for that side anymore. It will have been altered to extract 45-70 cases.

Oldman11 · August 1, 2018, 07:56 PM

The inserts run about$150.00 apiece and the gun is about $400.00 or more,so that’s $700.00 the price they want for the gun. That’s not including the rifle sights that’s been added. I just might bid on it just to have a gun not everybody has. 45-70 on one side and 12 gauge on the the other,make a good woods gun. Think about it you could hunt anything from rabbits to bears. Put a sling on that thing and not worry about anything.

drobs · August 2, 2018, 06:21 AM

There's a cowboy action shooter on gunbroker that smiths double barrel shotguns to make them Cowboy Action ready. I frequently see him selling Baikals. Can't imagine they are all that hard to work on.

Johnny Peoble Meadows
https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search...Sellers=231623

There was videos on how to slick up a tight SxS on youtube. Pretty sure those tricks would work on any side by side.

Oldman11 · August 2, 2018, 08:58 AM

I have one that has abou200 rds thru,still tight and stiff when opening. I believe they are one of the best guns for what you have to spend your money on.

Ricklin · August 2, 2018, 10:02 AM

Take this with the appropriate sized grain of salt.

The typical issue with inexpensive double barrel guns is the regulation of the barrels.
I do suppose that one could adjust the rifle sights for the 45-70 barrel side.

The question would then become what range to adjust the rifle sights for. Typically with a double barrel gun the patterns from both barrels will meet at around 30-50 yards.
I'm not sure how much would be gained by such a gun.

T. O'Heir · August 2, 2018, 11:48 AM

Those Baikal rifles were not conversions. They were double rifles from the get go. They're called a MP 221, ARTEMIDA. Dunno if they're still made.
I think the importation, Stateside, was banned in 2014 at least.
If there's a liner it was not done by Baikal.

Jim Watson · August 2, 2018, 12:29 PM

I dare say I could tell a conversion from a factory double by looking at it.
Maybe the OP can, too.

Oldman11 · August 2, 2018, 06:32 PM

It is a Baikal double with .45-70 full length liners if I’m not mistaken .

drobs · August 3, 2018, 06:39 AM

EAA still lists 45-70 & 30-30 inserts for Baikal double barrel shotguns. Out of stock, probably indefinitely. EAA was the 1st importer, IIRC.

http://eaacorp.com/gun_accessories/i...l-inserts.html

July 31, 2018, 06:04 AM	#1
Oldman11 Member Join Date: April 28, 2016 Posts: 77	Baikal .45-70 double There is a Baikal double .12 Gagne that has been made into a .45-70 complete with adjustable rifle sites. Barrels look to be either 16 or 18 inch’s long with full length .45-70 liners. Maybe take out one .45-70 liner and have a cheap 12x.45-70 cape Gun. But at $700.00 starting bid would it be worth bidding on?

July 31, 2018, 07:43 AM	#2
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	I wonder if it would be more cost effective to get a Stevens 311 (or similar) for a couple hundred bucks, and have a barrel lined. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

August 1, 2018, 06:38 AM	#5
drobs Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2015 Location: South Central MO / Africa Posts: 1,111	Always wanted that setup but never got around to it. Barrels are threaded in like choke tubes, I believe: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/781115411 __________________ NRA Life Member

August 1, 2018, 08:23 AM	#7
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	What noelf2 said. Had a classmate work on a Bailkal. She did it for a coworker when she worked at Whittington Center to help pay for school. After seeing her struggle with it, all of us swore off owning one. Note: It's one thing to work on one and quite another to have to work on it. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

August 1, 2018, 11:29 AM	#8
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	Another issue you could run into, besides the legality of the barrel length for the shotgun side, is extraction. If you take an insert out of one of the barrels, I doubt that the extractor will work for that side anymore. It will have been altered to extract 45-70 cases. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

July 31, 2018, 08:43 AM	#3
Oldman11 Member Join Date: April 28, 2016 Posts: 77	It would be cheaper but it would be a single shot. I was thinking about using one side for 45-70 and the other side a 12 gauge. That way you could use buck or smaller shot and still have the 45-70.

July 31, 2018, 08:45 AM	#4
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,528	Question 1, how are the rifle inserts retained? Are the shotgun bores unaltered? Question 2, 16 or 18 inch barrels? It matters. If you reconvert even one barrel to shot, it would not be legal under 18 inches. I would just put sights on a double shotgun, adjust them to one barrel with slugs and load the other with buck.

August 1, 2018, 07:56 PM	#9
Oldman11 Member Join Date: April 28, 2016 Posts: 77	The inserts run about$150.00 apiece and the gun is about $400.00 or more,so that’s $700.00 the price they want for the gun. That’s not including the rifle sights that’s been added. I just might bid on it just to have a gun not everybody has. 45-70 on one side and 12 gauge on the the other,make a good woods gun. Think about it you could hunt anything from rabbits to bears. Put a sling on that thing and not worry about anything.

August 2, 2018, 06:21 AM	#10
drobs Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2015 Location: South Central MO / Africa Posts: 1,111	There's a cowboy action shooter on gunbroker that smiths double barrel shotguns to make them Cowboy Action ready. I frequently see him selling Baikals. Can't imagine they are all that hard to work on. Johnny Peoble Meadows https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search...Sellers=231623 There was videos on how to slick up a tight SxS on youtube. Pretty sure those tricks would work on any side by side. __________________ NRA Life Member

August 2, 2018, 08:58 AM	#11
Oldman11 Member Join Date: April 28, 2016 Posts: 77	I have one that has abou200 rds thru,still tight and stiff when opening. I believe they are one of the best guns for what you have to spend your money on.

August 2, 2018, 10:02 AM	#12
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,011	Don't know the brand Take this with the appropriate sized grain of salt. The typical issue with inexpensive double barrel guns is the regulation of the barrels. I do suppose that one could adjust the rifle sights for the 45-70 barrel side. The question would then become what range to adjust the rifle sights for. Typically with a double barrel gun the patterns from both barrels will meet at around 30-50 yards. I'm not sure how much would be gained by such a gun. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

August 2, 2018, 11:48 AM	#13
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Those Baikal rifles were not conversions. They were double rifles from the get go. They're called a MP 221, ARTEMIDA. Dunno if they're still made. I think the importation, Stateside, was banned in 2014 at least. If there's a liner it was not done by Baikal. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

August 2, 2018, 12:29 PM	#14
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,528	I dare say I could tell a conversion from a factory double by looking at it. Maybe the OP can, too.

August 2, 2018, 06:32 PM	#15
Oldman11 Member Join Date: April 28, 2016 Posts: 77	It is a Baikal double with .45-70 full length liners if I’m not mistaken .

August 3, 2018, 06:39 AM	#16
drobs Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2015 Location: South Central MO / Africa Posts: 1,111	EAA still lists 45-70 & 30-30 inserts for Baikal double barrel shotguns. Out of stock, probably indefinitely. EAA was the 1st importer, IIRC. http://eaacorp.com/gun_accessories/i...l-inserts.html __________________ NRA Life Member

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