AK VS AR

[Ignition Override]

Rifle sights.
Are any people here comparing an AR with an AK when both guns have the same type of red dot or other type of identical sights?
If not, a comparison will not be as valid. It's then a rigged game because of different peoples' individual experiences with open leaf vs. aperture sights etc.

As for reliability, is the AK's dust cover closed when not being used, and if the AR has a dust cover, is it also kept closed when not in use while both rifles are carried in the same in dirty conditions?

Or should both dust covers always be kept open in field tests?

[pblanc]

Originally Posted by hdwhit

Before answering the question, did anyone ask you what you were wanting to do with the rifle? Or what attributes you were most concerned with the rifle possessing?

Since both the AR and AK "platforms" are available in either 22 or 30 caliber (there are even AK pattern rifles that will fire the same 5.56x45 cartridge as the AR-15, thereby eliminating much of the discussion of superiority of various cartridges) and in various buttstock configurations, it really seems to come down to assessing what it is you want the rifle to do before weighing various attributes.

For example, several responses have mentioned "modularity", "flexibility" or "adaptability" as attributes that favor the AR. Several years ago, we bought ARs for both our sons. They haven't made any significant changes to the rifles. So, if a person isn't going to replace parts on their rifle, "modularity" becomes a meaningless attribute.

People who are new to the AR platform may not know whether they are going to want to replace any parts until the start shooting the rifle and get familiar with its characteristics.

Some might not choose to change anything. Others will not like the heavy, creepy, mil-spec trigger and want to change to a better one. Others who mount a scope might decided they need a different charging handle with longer levers for easier access. Another might decide they want a butt stock with a better contour to achieve a better cheek weld. Some might want to install a different hand guard that allows options to mount accessories.

All of these changes are very easy on an AR, much more difficult on an AK.

[Road_Clam]

From just a recreational civilian amateur shooter. I own several configuration AR's and a Yugo Opap AK-47. Absolutely love both battle rifles. The AK's are meat-n-potatoes crude. A 110% reliable workhorse of a weapon with good accuracy. I love the nostalgic feel of the AK. The AK sights are horrible UNLESS you have young sharp eyesight. I much prefer the AR's aperture type sights. 223/556 AR ammo is available everywhere and inexpensive, 7.62 X39 AK ammo is very difficult to find stemming from Russian sanctions for reasonable cost. I handload x39 so I will always have ammo to shoot my AK. The AR hands down is a big attraction to the young modular bling commandos as far as a bazillion accessories. All my AR's are bare bones simplistic built for a very specific purpose. I have 6 different uppers, from 24" bbl precision out to 600 yds, down to 10.5" SBR specifically for suppressed usage. I only have 2 lowers. The AK's are far less modular and not widely accessorized. My Opap is out of the box stock and all's I did was widen the rear leaf sight notch for easier sighting. I've fired about 2400 rounds out my AK and not one single jam. Can't say that with my AR's. I definitely observe random feed issues with my AR. Usually from overdue cleaning or trying to run steel cased ammo. Brass only for all my AR's

[keithdog]

I want to thank everyone for the many replies. I never expected this amount of responses. Many good lines of thought and points to consider. I've shot an AR a few times, never an AK, although that will change as my son recently purchased an AK, which he loves I might add. The AR I shot was enjoyable to shoot. My son says he thinks his AK is more fun to shoot than his AR, but that he likes both. AS for me, the reason I am considering buying one or the other is for a little fun time at the range with my son, and for home defense. I must say, I do like the thought of the AK being reliable despite what it goes through, just in case poop actually hits the fan. I don't really believe that will happen in my life time, but it sticks in the back of my mind. Both 7.62 and 5.56 are lethal rounds, but I like the concept of the larger 7.62. I'm certainly not a competition shooter, just once in a while for fun. And I'm not trying to hit 300 yard targets either. Ease of use, reliability, and decent accuracy, though not necessarily pin point. My son is really into modification and has made many to both his AR and AK. Me, I don't see myself modifying much. Kind of a basics old school kind of guy.

[stagpanther]

One definite downside to an AK compared to an AR that wasn't mentioned--as a hand-loader I've noticed that AK's tend to be a lot rougher on brass and the "attrition" rate for rendering unusable brass in an AK is much higher than that of an AR in my experience.

[Ignition Override]

You might check the new results on Century's "VSKA", tested up to approx. (only) 1,500 rds. by "Rob Ski". Maybe he has a video on YouTube as with so many other rifles he tests to 3,000, even 5,000 rounds--if they hold together that long.

He shows people premature bolt lug or trunnion wear if it happens, even at 1,000 or 1,500 rds. etc.

* Headspace: On the "AK-47" forum at AKfiles, topic "VSKA's", he just reported that headspace failed in one, possibly both VSKAs being tested to the same general round count.

I was not there.
Decide for yourself what could be true, what is a good investment, as it's always your money: hard-earned or inherited. I'm only trying to describe what I read.

[cannonfire]

Between my wife and I, we have 4 ARs (1 16-in 5.56, my 16-in SW duty (work) rifle, an 11-in 5.556 pistol, and a 10.5-in 300BO pistol). I love the AR platform. It has it's flaws as does every other weapon, but I know those flaws and have trained with it so much that it becomes just part of the Order of Arms.

With that said, I was whining to the wife that "we" don't have an AK but have near 1000 rounds of 7.62x39 (don't ask, I don't turn down ammo if someone offers). So I found a Pioneer Arms Polish AK built by J.R.A. for $550 with 4 mags and a sling from classicfirearms (now $500 for black friday, smh). Is it going to be the best and most accurate AK? Nope. Is it going to be a learning and training tool for future purchases? Yup. (I also bought a Radom P64 for $190, but I didn't tell the wife yet, waiting to see her reaction).

And I love the SHTF idea that you have to have everything aspect covered for the long haul.... Like you're NOT going to try to pick up a Chinese or Russian AK when they invade.... I'm sorry, 'IF' they invade.

[jetinteriorguy]

The aspect of brass damage from my AK is what prompted me to get my AR47. The range I shoot at doesn't allow any ComBloc ammo, so I figured I'd get some brass and just reload so I could shoot my AK some more. But when I saw how badly it beat up the brass, and how expensive 7.62x39 brass is it kind of defeated the purpose, what with me being such a cheapa##. Then Midway had the AR Stoner uppers for sale super cheap so I grabbed one and put together an Anderson lower I got on sale, added a nice 4x Nikon scope I had laying around and just like that I have a nice 1 1/2-2 MOA shooter that's a blast to shoot and much easier on the brass.

[stagpanther]

The aspect of brass damage from my AK is what prompted me to get my AR47. The range I shoot at doesn't allow any ComBloc ammo, so I figured I'd get some brass and just reload so I could shoot my AK some more. But when I saw how badly it beat up the brass, and how expensive 7.62x39 brass is it kind of defeated the purpose, what with me being such a cheapa##. Then Midway had the AR Stoner uppers for sale super cheap so I grabbed one and put together an Anderson lower I got on sale, added a nice 4x Nikon scope I had laying around and just like that I have a nice 1 1/2-2 MOA shooter that's a blast to shoot and much easier on the brass.

Yup--I did exactly the same thing--I saw PSA had a "bottom of the barrel" AR47 upper complete with BCG for around $150 as I recall--even without a free-float rail it shoots very well. Yesterday I went out in the deep snow to test some new ammo--even shooting into 15 to 20 mph winds @100 it acquits itself very well. The other thing is that the barrel, even though it's only 16", consistently beats my AK in velocities using the same ammo.







It's not quite as windy or cold today--so I may try again if I get get in through the ice and snow.

[stagpanther]

The ammo I tried out was a "ultra boutique" ammo, a 123 gr all-copper bullet made by G2 Research called the "Rip Out Trident"--a rather awkward named cartridge that I personally can never remember. At about $2.50 a pop it's pretty derned expensive--but my friend at the store sold me on the claim that it was a 2700 fps bullet great for hunting. When I peeled the label away I discovered it's only rated to 2270 fps. I only shot a few 4 shot groups since it's so expensive and the conditions aren't all that great. Was definitely a bit warmer and a bit less windy today, but still were factors.

I chrono'd the groups and the average velocity was actually right around 2400 fps--very respectable compared to other off-the-shelf offerings. The polish of the bullet is noticeably better than that of the cavity back, lehigh and maker offerings I've seen, the cases are also annealed. The three groups I've shot so far were all right around 1.2 MOA--and would have been less if I dropped one of the fliers from each group. I suspect through a better tube than my PSA cheapo special MOA or less is likely routinely achievable.

[kraigwy]

I wasnt going to chime in but:

"Only Accurate Rifles are interesting" Col. Townsend Whelen

Even wonder why you seldom see an AK at a rifle match, Either High Power or Three Gun? You never see one at the top of the leader board.

ARs have beat all the Records set by the M14/M1A in Service Rifle, up to and including 1000 yards matches.

As a CMP MI I conduct GSM Clinics and Matches. I've had people show up with an AK or SKS, what I havent had is someone showing up twice with those rifles.

[Road_Clam]

This debate/ argument will go on forever, same as "9mm vs 45acp". I've learned a lot from reading the unbiased hands on comparisons by those who've served in battle and used both platforms. Both rifles have strengths and weaknesses. Bottom line my civilian self defensive opinion, is if I had to choose one "as issued" iron sighted rifle that would absolutely guarantee to fire a single shot at <100 yard and cease a threat it would be an AK-47. If I had to cease a threat at 100+ yd distance and not be 100% concerned about a potential jam, the AR-15 A2 would be my pick. I practice proficiency with both, it's all about situational options and preparedness.

[agtman]

* * * Even wonder why you seldom see an AK at a rifle match, Either High Power or Three Gun? You never see one at the top of the leader board. ARs have beat all the Records set by the M14/M1A in Service Rifle, up to and including 1000 yards matches. * * * I've had people show up with an AK or SKS, what I havent had is someone showing up twice with those rifles.

AKs = inaccurate Commie junk, as was said.

[RC20]

All of these changes are very easy on an AR, much more difficult on an AK.

Unless its Krebs or someone custom, no one makes an AK trigger that is nice, but then its not intended. AR gets the nod there (and accuracy) - but the AK tends very reliable in bad conditions. Read some articles on people who had to operate in Iraq, they all had AK backups.

Stagpanther: All cartridges are annealed, its polished off on many, military rounds no, some civilian stuff leaves it as a signature I guess.

[stagpanther]

Jard makes a nice light pull AK trigger.

[CalmerThanYou]

Mr. Stoner and Mr. Kalashnikov seemed to appreciate each others work. I can post up a picture of them together if your all USA made computer is giving you trouble agtman.

[pblanc]

Originally Posted by RC20

Unless its Krebs or someone custom, no one makes an AK trigger that is nice, but then its not intended. AR gets the nod there (and accuracy) - but the AK tends very reliable in bad conditions. Read some articles on people who had to operate in Iraq, they all had AK backups.

Stagpanther: All cartridges are annealed, its polished off on many, military rounds no, some civilian stuff leaves it as a signature I guess.

I have a good friend who is a retired Lt Colonel whose son has been deployed to Iraq twice, and was actually involved in training the Iraqi security forces.

He did actually carry an AKM frequently on patrols, but not because he preferred it to the AR. He preferred the AR but the sound of an AR drew insurgents who were hot to kill an American like garbage draws flies. The sound of an AK was part of the background.

[Road_Clam]

Originally Posted by pblanc

He did actually carry an AKM frequently on patrols, but not because he preferred it to the AR. He preferred the AR but the sound of an AR drew insurgents who were hot to kill an American like garbage draws flies. The sound of an AK was part of the background.

When you have the ability to fire an AR and an AK side by side, they do emit different blast tones.

[kraigwy]

When you have the ability to fire an AR and an AK side by side, they do emit different blast tones.

Yes the AK has a unique sound, like a ………………….well like an AK. There is no mistaking it. I can tell you horror stories of friendly fire incidents because some GI playing with an AK

[Hoffmeister]

From what i was always told was that the ak is a very reliable gun it can be thrown through hell and brought back and still fire a round. A big plus would be that the gun can be dragged through mud and sand and still shoot you brake the damn stock off and still fire it! Another big one is that there are so many made they are cheap and ammo is extremely cheap along with replacing parts its very easy to take apart clean and slap back together the cost effectiveness is a huge win! Con is the accuracy my wifes dad is a great reference to this point he was a special forces guy he told me his very first landing he hoped out of the helicopter about three hundred yards out from the enemy firing at him and his squad with their ak and as they stood there bullets flew everywhere they simple pulled up their m4 and shot a couple rounds and eliminated the threat! So from that i get the accuracy of the ak is -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- when compared to the AR but the AR tends to cost more and has multiple components in it making it some difficult to maintain and switch parts if you dont know what your doing when working on an AR stuff can wrong and the weapon may not work the same. Now I recently purchased an sks and love it its cheap its easy to replace parts i put new tactical stock on it changed firing pin to spring loaded and got a new trigger cause someone previously did a trigger mod to it all parts were very inexpensive bought it for 300 put 200 into in parts and attachments factory clip holds 10 bought 500 rounds for like 100 bucks i don’t remember exactly i love shooting its fine id recommed it its a cheap gun its fun you can hunt with it you can target shoot its also enjoyable to work on and no need to worry about messing it up I personally dont think id ever get an AK just cause i have an sks and its more accurate than the ak but still not comparable to my AR 15

[Hoffmeister]

Buds guns has very cheap 7.62x39 ammo

[stagpanther]

I just got back testing some handloads in my AK.

I sometimes push my loads a bit warm--but in a 1:10 twist AK barrel like my PSAK has that can actually work against you when "over-spinning" a short, flat base type projectile.

[jimbob86]

I sometimes push my loads a bit warm--but in a 1:10 twist AK barrel like my PSAK has that can actually work against you when "over-spinning" a short, flat base type projectile.

Do tell, stag!

I had an Uncle that pushed light varmint bullets out of his .220Swift fast enough that they spun themselves apart in flight ..... I can't imagine you are pushing x39 pills that fast.......

[rickyrick]

I think he meant over-stabilized, not spun apart.

[Road_Clam]

Believe it or not I achieved some great 100 yd accuracy shooting .308 165 gr Spitzers and Benchmark powder through my Opap. Shot about 1.66 moa benchrest with an optic.