224 Valk failing me. Other options?

[stagpanther]

Whalen and Galli were shooting them to a mile, and beyond just last week. They are not exactly hacks.

I have not run the 88s, but 77s and 80s, not a problem to 1200. First run JP 1:7 twist, and I am not hotrodding them. I don't shoot factory ammo though, so I have to relay on Brian and Frank's information.

I'm not calling anyone a hack--but I'd sure be interested in seeing their load and chrono data.

Berger thinks 7 is enough.

I've done LOTS of loads with the 90 gr Bergers--I bought over a 1000 of them suckers--they have been quite temperamental at the 90 gr borderline in the 1:7 twist barrel I have unless they are leaving the muzzle very fast (high spin rate).

[MarkCO]

stagpanther, neither reload, so they were shooting factory ammo. Hornady 88s. Posted on their FB pages and I would bet there will be some video soon. I have watched both of them shoot the 224V in person as well as my own...7 is enough unless you are working on 95g+. I know more than I can say without getting in trouble, but the 90g won't ever be tried in mine...

[stagpanther]

By my calculations that's about the last 500 yds subsonic with Hornady's 88 eld--that's extremely impressive if a very high SD/BC bullet can accomplish that consistently and with accuracy.

[MarkCO]

It certainly is. When they went past 1760 to like 2050, they did not get very good results. I have taken my .260 to 1 mile on the same range, never hit the 2050, so, at least in my mind, that is close to getting the same type of performance from half the powder. With a barrel life of 6K as opposed to 2500, that I can swap out in 10 minutes at home...okay.

There are a lot of choices for a gas gun for PRS type matches, and lower cost trainers. I will continue to be of the opinion that the 224V is a niche caliber with a relatively small window in which it makes sense. I am still not sure that if I did not get my parts and pieces at Master dealer cost to free, that I would even bother with the 224V. I enjoy the tinker, giving feedback to manufacturers and other shooters, so that is my main motivation.

[stagpanther]

The 88 eld is a good bullet--but I can drive the 95 gr SMK even faster than Hornady's ammo. I still haven't found an exceptionally accurate load for the eld--I have found a .3 MOA one for the SMK. The eld's are "touchier" on feed in my experience than the MK's also, which often necessitates seating to a COL shorter than what otherwise might still be a significant jump to lands.

There is no "curse of 90 gr" that I'm aware of--unless you're referring to a theoretical botched ammo release by a major manufacturer--which I have heard rumors about. Regardless of the exceptional success a few people have had--the key word is "few" and the much more common comment is "gee I'm disappointed." My personal opinion is that there was a tsunami of industry people who pushed this out the start gate way before it was ready for prime time and there are a whole lot of people out there with sore backsides as a result.

[MarkCO]

I am sure there is some of the later. Also some of the "you just can't shoot" that was not the gun nor the ammo.

[MarkCO]

They put up a video today...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DgX...zJGKgqT18-e4nM

[stagpanther]

I am sure there is some of the later. Also some of the "you just can't shoot" that was not the gun nor the ammo.

True--and I may fall into that category myself on many occasions--but this is not a caliber that had consistency in the barrels or the off the shelf factory ammo availability when it was rolled out with great fanfare. It still favors the hand-loader and I firmly believe the public--and the cartridge itself--was done a disservice by the rush to market. JP itself had to "ground" the barrels from what I heard while they scratched their heads figuring out what's what.

[MarkCO]

You are probably right. They wanted to hit while PRS gas gun was still hot. It is not anymore and in fact the finale has been cancelled due to lack of registrations.

On the converse, the 300 PRC "just announced as new" has been in development by both factories and wildcatters for over 10 years. A crotchety old guy who owns a small gun store, mostly for reloaders, near me, thinks the new calibers are just to keep the supply lines of brass, dies, reamers working. "There are 6, maybe 7, rifle calibers. The rest are just a copy to make someone money."

[stagpanther]

You are probably right. They wanted to hit while PRS gas gun was still hot. It is not anymore and in fact the finale has been cancelled due to lack of registrations.

On the converse, the 300 PRC "just announced as new" has been in development by both factories and wildcatters for over 10 years. A crotchety old guy who owns a small gun store, mostly for reloaders, near me, thinks the new calibers are just to keep the supply lines of brass, dies, reamers working. "There are 6, maybe 7, rifle calibers. The rest are just a copy to make someone money."

I haven't seen the 300 PRC--but I load for the 375 Ruger, it's parent case, and I think it's a brilliant design, doesn't surprise me at all that Hornady is making an "official" cat out of it. Those guys are pretty dang sharp when it comes to loaded ammo, even though I handload almost all of mine they consistently come up with superior performing ammo at reasonable prices. I watched their video on the 300 PRC and I appreciate the fact they take the "low road" modest expectations approach rather than flood the market with over-blown hype. My money is on that they will develop a winner out of it.

[stagpanther]

Decided to do a little work with the 88 eld's and loaded some up to match hornady's ammo as best I could--results do look decent at 100 yds--probably would have been better had I been shooting better and in better conditions.

[ndking1126]

TrueBlue,

Kinda late to the discussion, but I think a new barrel is what you need if you are looking for better accuracy.

What I haven't seen discussed is the availability of off-the-shelf 6.5G ammo. I absolutely loved the round, but got rid of my upper about 4 months ago because finding ammo was all but impossible. Not sure if Valk is any better, but that might be a consideration to not go the 6.5G route.

[stagpanther]

I'm guessing about 80 to 90% of the barrels out there are probably the 1:7 twist long freebore variants--I decided to try out the same 88 eld handholds on my build using the 20" psa barrel. Using an old beater 4MOA reddot at 50 yds the results are impressive IMO--I can now see why hornady came up with these since they do very well--especially if you can stretch out your bullet seating.





The 20" configuration has a nice balance BTW.

[TrueBlue711]

Kinda late to the discussion, but I think a new barrel is what you need if you are looking for better accuracy.

That's my thinking too, that's why I'm open to good barrel company suggestions. I don't want to abandon the 224 Valk if possible since I have a stockpile of ammo built up already (Federal 90gr SMK and Hornady 88gr MATCH).

[JohnKSa]

I absolutely loved the round, but got rid of my upper about 4 months ago because finding ammo was all but impossible.

It goes in cycles. If you want to shoot a lot on a regular basis, you need to buy in bulk when it's available, or learn to reload. You can get it now--it's that part of the cycle again.

[stagpanther]

I've loaded over 1000 cartridges for 6.5 and 7 twist barrels in both the "short" and "long" free bore versions of the valk barrels. I've done quite a lot of "dry testing" to see how bullet's designs chamber the best in either one. The 88 eld is at present the best all-around bullet design for either version of the valk that I've come across--you can load it long in either the short or long freebore chambers and it works equally well in 7 twist or faster. I've developed a slightly better performing load for the long freebore barrel in 95 gr matchings--but 7 twist is not enough to stabilize it consistantly unless you're lighting off a bomb under it to drive it.



In addition to the bullet design, BRASS performance makes a huge difference! Slight expansion or flow in the brass--even when it is still within SAAMI tolerances--can still have a big effect on cartridge performance and how well it chambers. Presently hornady brass is the best stuff I've found (better than FC or starline IMO) Life for the valk will get a whole lot better IMO when Lapua starts making brass for it--and maybe also when Berger (if/when/who knows) makes a better hybrid ogive bullet design that works well with the valk--their 90 vld --while I can occasionally hit on an "OK MOA" is simply not a good cut for the valk chamber IMO.