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Old November 21, 2020, 10:25 AM   #76
wild cat mccane
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The P32 sz and weight difference is overstated as significant when comparing ballistics—in my opinion.

Add a magguts spring and capacity is the same without the fear of rim lock.

While fmj stays the recommended load on 32, 380 loads with XTP and new Hydroshok beat out bad 9mm for expanded penetration.

You have to want the 32 to want the P32. I am sure P32 owners do like them.
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Old November 21, 2020, 10:36 AM   #77
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Without getting into a long winded debate about ballistics, the Keltec sure provides a light weight carry. Especially in Hot Humid Summer when wearing a pair of shorts and Tee shirt. 6 1/2 ounces unloaded.

8 rds loaded with Underwood Plus P

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Old November 21, 2020, 10:47 AM   #78
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I can't repost my pic but here is the other thread with the P32 tipping the scales as mentioned. https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=605939
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Old November 21, 2020, 03:43 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker
Without getting into a long winded debate about ballistics, the Keltec sure provides a light weight carry. Especially in Hot Humid Summer when wearing a pair of shorts and Tee shirt. 6 1/2 ounces unloaded.

8 rds loaded with Underwood Plus P
You may want to avoid using some of the so-called "+P" ammo in the P32 considering that there is no such thing as an official +P loading for the .32 ACP cartridge as per SAAMI Specifications, ergo what you're using is unregulated overpressure ammo which may or may not be safe to shoot.
Yeah, I know that Kel-Tec states in their manuals that it's safe to shoot +Ps, but once again, these so-called ".32 ACP +P" loads aren't regulated, ergo the pressure curve between brands could exceed whatever brand of +P loads Kel-Tec has tested and hopefully determined is safe to shoot.

Just saying, if the LCP apparently isn't built sturdily enough to withstand 3000 rounds of Standard Pressure .380 ACP without the frame/rails cracking under the strain, then you probably shouldn't be trusting the Kel-Tec P32 which is even smaller, lighter, and objectively less robust than the LCP to hold up to the use of unofficial, unregulated overpressure ammunition.
Come to think of it, have you been referring to the use of .380 ACP +P loads this whole time when it comes to the LCP's failure to hold up to over 2500 rounds before something fails? Because if so, then that would explain the discrepancy between the relatively low round count of your LCP compared to folks I've seen on other forums who have claimed to have fired upwards of 5000 rounds without anything besides the takedown pin failing.

And once again, yes, I am aware that Buffalo Bore for instance claims that it's safe to shoot their so-called ".380 ACP +P" loads out of a Ruger LCP, but Ruger themselves says otherwise, and I'm more apt to take their word for it rather than the word of an ammo manufacturer. Besides, like I said, being unregulated overpressure loads, Underwood could be loading their .380 ACP +P ammo even hotter than Buffalo Bore.

Please be honest, I'm not judging you if that's the ammo that you prefer to use, (in fact I myself considered using it in the past, albeit in my PPK/S) I'm merely saying that use of such ammunition would obviously accelerate wear on the LCP, just as any official SAAMI Spec load would, and Ruger even advises against the regular use of official SAAMI Spec +P loads in their LC9 series of pistols, which are essentially just scalled up LCPs chambered in 9mm Luger.
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Old November 21, 2020, 05:59 PM   #80
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This topic has been discussed many times. On 380 manufacturers that state it will shoot Plus P or higher pressure ammo I have done this many times and the guns have no problem. However, yes, the manufacturers that state to not use it, DO NOT. They will go down.

Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; November 21, 2020 at 08:22 PM.
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Old November 21, 2020, 06:47 PM   #81
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I’m not impressed by saami, since they have neutered favorite rounds like 38spl and 8mm Mauser.
The Underwood +P 380 shoots wonderfully in my Beretta 84F. Since I had some, I did put a couple mags through my P3AT, to no bad effect.
I’m a fan of the P32, however. After having shot and carried the P3AT for a few years, I picked up a P32 just before the plandemic hit.
The P32 is an excellent shooting pistol. I carry mine with a Hornady XTP in the chamber and first out of the mag...the rest is hot S&B FMJ.
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Old November 21, 2020, 08:47 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by amd6547 View Post
I’m not impressed by saami, since they have neutered favorite rounds like 38spl and 8mm Mauser.
The Underwood +P 380 shoots wonderfully in my Beretta 84F. Since I had some, I did put a couple mags through my P3AT, to no bad effect.
I’m a fan of the P32, however. After having shot and carried the P3AT for a few years, I picked up a P32 just before the plandemic hit.
The P32 is an excellent shooting pistol. I carry mine with a Hornady XTP in the chamber and first out of the mag...the rest is hot S&B FMJ.
why do you want reduced penetration for your first two rounds?
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Old November 21, 2020, 08:52 PM   #83
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He doesn't want it, nor does he have it.
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Old November 21, 2020, 11:18 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amd6547
I’m not impressed by saami, since they have neutered favorite rounds like 38spl and 8mm Mauser.
The Underwood +P 380 shoots wonderfully in my Beretta 84F. Since I had some, I did put a couple mags through my P3AT, to no bad effect.
I’m a fan of the P32, however. After having shot and carried the P3AT for a few years, I picked up a P32 just before the plandemic hit.
The P32 is an excellent shooting pistol. I carry mine with a Hornady XTP in the chamber and first out of the mag...the rest is hot S&B FMJ.
You can't really blame SAAMI for that, it was simple cause and effect which resulted from a massive influx of cheaply made firearms which couldn't handle full-spec ammunition. It was basically a necessary public safety counter-measure in response to a market that had been flooded with firearms which could catastrophically fail with the use of standard ammunition. In other words, don't blame SAAMI, blame Saturday Night Specials, Ring of Fire guns, and the people who bought them, as even then there were lower cost firearms that weren't junk, but certain folks just couldn't resist those bottom-dollar prices or otherwise lacked the good sense to avoid them in favor of firearms of clearly higher quality/workmanship.

It's a lot like the infamous Gun Control Act of 1968, often written off by conspiracy theorists as a brazen attempt by our eternally corrupt government to deny the American people access to inexpensive yet high quality firearms manufactured abroad, but in reality was a hastily thrown together and fundamentally flawed attempt at public safety by halting an influx of cheap, shoddy, and in many cases structurally unsound firearms which had become popular among criminals as disposable weapons.

Furthermore, modern .38 Special +P loads come close to replicating old .38 Special loads, and .357 Magnum can either meet or surpass them entirely depending on the load, so there's no big loss.

Lastly, whether you agree with SAAMI or not, it still isn't wise to mess around with unregulated overpressure loads in firearms which were designed around the concept of building the smallest, lightest weight pistols available, not necessarily the most rugged or durable.
If you want 9mm performance in the smallest package, then buy a SIG P365 or a Springfield Armory Hellcat, don't load your P3AT or LCP with overpressure .380 ACP ammo which at best amounts to poor-man's 9mm. And if you do, then don't act surprised when the firearm fails prematurely, much less blame the firearm because it unsurprisingly doesn't hold up well to ammunition which produces higher chamber pressures in excess of what it was designed to handle or otherwise could realistically be designed to handle when it comes to unregulated ammo produced by manufacturers whose entire selling point is maximum power, in which competition is bound to result in them trying to 1-Up each other with increasingly hotter loads.
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Old November 22, 2020, 05:44 AM   #85
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Getting back to the OP, I think across the board you will find the Keltec 32 a impressive lightweight, deep concealment firearm. Reliable and easy to shoot. It has a big fan base. I love the small Pocket guns and have not looked back on the purchase of the Keltec.
It really is quite amazing especially when you put it in your hand and feel the size and super light weight and then shoot it and find out how mild it actually shoots. Very nice DAO trigger.

The bad? Like you said finding one. And finding ammo. I was lucky to get one well before the crap for $160.00 which was a special deal I found.

Good luck my Friend, let us know if you score one of these fine deep concealment firearms.


Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; November 22, 2020 at 08:08 AM.
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Old November 22, 2020, 10:34 AM   #86
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"plandemic" comment is beyond irritating.


On the P32, the last time I posted about it I mentioned the rim lock/kel tec wire kit. It was the general opinion all that had been solved and I was wrong. It was mentioned in this thread. So...Kel Tec do something to the mag? Just learning.

Thanks
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Old November 22, 2020, 10:42 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker View Post
Getting back to the OP, I think across the board you will find the Keltec 32 a impressive lightweight, deep concealment firearm. Reliable and easy to shoot. It has a big fan base. I love the small Pocket guns and have not looked back on the purchase of the Keltec.

It really is quite amazing especially when you put it in your hand and feel the size and super light weight and then shoot it and find out how mild it actually shoots. Very nice DAO trigger.



The bad? Like you said finding one. And finding ammo. I was lucky to get one well before the crap for $160.00 which was a special deal I found.



Good luck my Friend, let us know if you score one of these fine deep concealment firearms.



Thanks Carl. The shops are pretty much out of everything guns and ammo everywhere I go in my area.

My local gun store took the time to give me the UPC and another number to try to hunt down a P32 online but so far no avail.

I live in IL too and it doesn't seem like a lot of private sales are being posted on Armlist right now either.

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Old November 22, 2020, 12:22 PM   #88
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"I live in IL too and it doesn't seem like a lot of private sales are being posted on Armlist right now either."

I've used Armslist as a private buyer/seller for a few years, and sometime around early November they began to prevent me from emailing as a buyer (I had nothing for sale) unless I paid them $X a month for a "Premium Account" (or something like that). They said they needed the money to help with legal fees.

Maybe that's what happened in IL.
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Old November 22, 2020, 02:36 PM   #89
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"I live in IL too and it doesn't seem like a lot of private sales are being posted on Armlist right now either."

I've used Armslist as a private buyer/seller for a few years, and sometime around early November they began to prevent me from emailing as a buyer (I had nothing for sale) unless I paid them $X a month for a "Premium Account" (or something like that). They said they needed the money to help with legal fees.

Maybe that's what happened in IL.
It is the same way everywhere for Armslist. I was going to just make a listing as a for sale post but I don't really want another monthly fee.

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Old November 22, 2020, 03:39 PM   #90
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Along with panic buying, I think Florida supply lines were destroyed by covid.

Kel Tec and Diamondback are both FL based and neither has had a supply of guns since February.

gun.deals is where you want to search.

I think this is a VERY low value gun though, so you might need to look for some time before finding one.

Northrup is focusing on 9mm and 223 exclusively right now, so same for 32 ammo.
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Old November 22, 2020, 05:04 PM   #91
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I have had a P32, P3AT, LCP, LCPII, and a Pico.

The P32 was $210-something used and has given me no problems. I don't carry 32acp pistols, but it's a fun little pistol and I would carry it if I "had to".

My FiL still has my P3AT. I bought it new seven years ago or so and it still works fine.

The Pico has a stiff trigger.

The "original" LCP was fine, but I like the LCPII a lot better. It has much better trigger and sights. I carry it frequently.
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Old November 23, 2020, 12:49 PM   #92
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This is a Google Wayback capture of Golden Loki's website. He did some of the best testing of 380 and 32. One of the best at the time. He did extensive testing with the P32, P3AT, and proved the P11 isn't drop safe.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110723.../gel/tests.htm

Many of the loads on his page no longer exist. But I would take 380 based of his testing any day.
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Old November 23, 2020, 02:23 PM   #93
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Personally, when it comes to Ballistics Gel Tests, my go-to is ShootingtheBull410 on YouTube. Unfortunately, due to health problems he hasn't been active in years, but his videos are still relevant.
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Old November 23, 2020, 03:42 PM   #94
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Why would the LCPll be superior to both in class? Having owned many I have never seen any difference other than cosmetic. I recently bought the LCPll 22 as well. Nothing special in the build quality but good enough for the 22.cal.

All the LCP 380's will fall apart like cheap lawn chair's once any reasonable amount of rounds fired through them. I suspect the Keltec will as well, but at least you can buy a new grip if one cracks and they will.

The LCP's got a lot of attention because they came out when Pocket guns were a hit with the public and Ruger threw millions of dollars into ads.
This new LCP ll 22 I have has a trigger that down right sucks for a Pocket gun. And all these years later Ruger will not invest in a frigging front sight that can be changed out to a night sight. Lame.
Superior (IMO) for several reasons - (LCP II over LCP and P3AT): Much better trigger, much better sights, last round slide lock, better grip ergonomics.

Some may not like the lack of firing pin block with a fully charged hammer (LCP II). Ruger has tested the LCP II design thoroughly. The hammer catch/sear has a secondary surface to catch the hammer if it fell without a trigger pull. This is the same mechanism found in the Security 9.
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Old November 23, 2020, 04:35 PM   #95
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Glad you mention the Security 9.

I wouldn't trust that one either for the same reason.

Ruger religiously tested their Gen1 LCP. It was recalled for drop safety issues.
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Old November 23, 2020, 04:57 PM   #96
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Glad you mention the Security 9.

I wouldn't trust that one either for the same reason.

Ruger religiously tested their Gen1 LCP. It was recalled for drop safety issues.
Factual, no argument there. But the cause of the drop firing was not the fire control system, but a too heavy firing pin with too light a firing pin spring. Dropped on muzzle it could fire, fixed as you would expect - lightweight firing pin and stronger spring.
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Old November 24, 2020, 09:32 AM   #97
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If you can name me a polymer handgun which has no physical firing pin block while being fully sprung at only 1.8mm travel to 100% sprung...

I can. Ruger's LCPII and Security 9.




The Loki website that is now gone but hosted by Google is full of info. Worth more than just the gel testing he did in 2007?
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Old November 25, 2020, 11:58 AM   #98
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People often get all hung up on the safety features of firearms, some won't carry a firearm unless it has multiple safety features because they worry about it going off when they don't want it to, others won't carry a firearm unless it has no safety at all or only passive safeties because they feel that it might prevent them from being able to discharge their firearm quickly enough if need be.

Personally, I don't care all that much either way. I've carried firearms with and without manual safeties without worrying about it either way. Folks often cite older firearms without safeties like the Colt Single Action Army for their hazardous ability to go off if something hits the hammer or the firearm is dropped and it lands directly on the hammer, but historically how many people actually were killed as a result of this? Honestly, folks cannot bring up firearms safety nor the Colt Single Action Army without bringing this up, but nobody ever mentions a documented case of anyone actually dying because they accidentally shot themselves when their SAA was dropped or something tapped the hammer while it was down on a live round, which leads me to believe that it was such a rare occurrence that there are few if any surviving documents of its occurrence, or it never actually happened at all to begin with, so people have been worrying over a potential safety hazard which seldom if ever occurred for generations.

I know that folks will argue that the risk was mitigated by the common practice of only loading 5 rounds in the cylinder and putting the hammer down on an empty chamber, but frankly I don't believe that literally everyone did that, and I can't help but wonder that if the SAA was honestly so hazardous that everyone felt the need to leave a chamber empty, effectively reducing its capacity, then why didn't Colt ever address it by redesigning the SAA so that it was safe to carry with all 6 rounds loaded? Honestly, there were older percussion cap revolvers with notches cut between cylinders so that the revolver could be loaded to capacity and the hammer could be safely rested without the firing pin touching a cap, so why wasn't the same feature implemented on the SAA? My guess is because it wasn't actually as dangerous in practice to load the SAA to full capacity with the hammer down on a live round as folks seem to think it is, especially considering there are very few ways that the hammer could be struck hard enough to make the round go off and that landing directly on the hammer if dropped was highly unlikely due to the shape of the grip and the firearms overall center of gravity.

So yeah, how many people are currently carrying the LCP II and/or the Security 9, and how many of them have been injured/killed as a result of the firearm going off unintentionally because the trigger was just too darn light? I'm going to be bold here and presume that the answer is ZERO because in this day and age in which information travels fast and folks are quick to file lawsuits over such things, it's most likely that news of such an occurrence would have spread far and wide, with many a thread posted on the subject, and folks gloating about how "I knew it wasn't safe!" without hesitation.

In other words, it's one of the many unfounded concerns shared among firearms enthusiasts, which unfortunately more often than not goes hand in hand with paranoia, ergo the people who insist that certain firearms are unsafe without any physical evidence to substantiate their beliefs and also the sort who believes in all manner of absurd conspiracy theories with no physical evidence to back them up either.

Personally, I only chose the LCP over the LCP II because it was the more time-proven model available, at the time certain folks were reporting that they had experienced FTFs with their LCP IIs, the LCP II wasn't available in Stainless Steel, and I preferred the aesthetics of the LCP to the LCP II. Granted that at the time I wasn't aware of the supposedly objective fact that the LCP is a flimsy firearm that will literally fall apart if a mere 3000 rounds of Standard Pressure ammunition is fired through it, but I digress... Admittedly, I too shared the sentiment that the LCP II's trigger was too light at the time, but seeing as nobody seems to have accidentally shot themselves or another dead because the trigger was too light, I'm going to go ahead and assume that it's perfectly safe to carry.
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Old November 25, 2020, 12:50 PM   #99
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The LCP was out for a while before the recall. Years?

I think the LCPII isn’t bought as much as we might think. It’s extremely wide for a pocket 380. Widest of all options. Meh.

Has nothing to do with redundant safeties. The LCP I carry doesn’t have 2. Recall, Kel Tec designed their p32 safety based on hammer sprung percent and weight of the gun. My concern on the lcpII has to do with the travel of the spring to be sprung to hit a primer. I personally don’t thing the ruger lcpII dingus is good enough on a fully sprung hammer spring.
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Old November 25, 2020, 01:33 PM   #100
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If the LCP II weren't selling well, then I imagine that Ruger would have discontinued them by now. Ruger clearly has no reservations about discontinuing products which aren't selling particularly well. In fact, it seems like the moment one of their pistols slows down in sales they unceremoniously discontinue it, as evidenced by the fact that many of their pistols seem to become "Distributor Exclusive" within a few years, which clearly illustrates that even firearms which are still in enough demand for retailers to special order them are often discontinued long before demand dries up significantly.

Besides, Ruger generally doesn't offer a firearm in multiple color/finish configurations unless it is selling extremely well for them, ergo I don't buy that the only reason why nobody has accidentally been injured by its assertedly inadequate trigger safety is because not enough people own them. Heck, if the assertion were true then it shouldn't matter how few people are carrying an LCP II for the supposed deficiency of the safety to occur. It's honestly even worse of an argument than the assertion that the only reason why the Ruger LCP hasn't developed a reputation for being flimsy is because not enough shooters have put 3000 rounds of Standard Pressure ammunition through theirs. You don't need a particularly large sample size to prove something that has consistent, repeatable results.

Everyone ought to be more conscientious about whether they are transposing strong opinions for objective facts, especially when they lack tangible evidence to backup their claims, and lack of evidence to the contrary doesn't prove it either. Opinions should always be clearly stated as such.
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