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Old November 14, 2020, 08:39 PM   #51
Bill DeShivs
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Originally Posted by Forte S+W View Post
The LCP is heavier because it has an aluminum chassis embedded in the frame whereas the P3AT does not. Dunno if that makes it "better" per se, but it certainly makes it more durable, so it's not like the added weight does nothing or was added for the sole purpose of making the gun artificially feel more durable.

Also, it helps that the LCP comes in a variety of different colors and configurations.

My Ruger LCP is actually the 10th Anniversary Limited Edition with a Stainless Steel slide with front/rear serrations and an skeletonized aluminum trigger.


As a fan of the low maintenance of Stainless Steel as well as the aesthetic of duotone pistols, the LCP 10th Anniversary Edition appealed to me on both a practical and aesthetic level.

You are mistaken about the P32.
Of course the P32 has an aluminum frame in the plastic grip frame! The P3AT has an aluminum frame, too.
Keltec even sells different colored grip frames that the consumer can swap out.
The P32 has been available with blued, hard chromed, and parkerized slides.
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Old November 15, 2020, 09:55 AM   #52
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I must have been thinking of something else then, but I thought that the P32/P3AT only had aluminum in the frame rails, not a full aluminum chassis embedded into the frame. I guess it's just because Ruger felt the need to call attention to it in their description for the LCP while Kel-Tec doesn't for the P3AT.
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Old November 15, 2020, 11:07 AM   #53
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Having taken the LCP and P3AT chassis out, there is absolutely no difference between them.
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Old November 15, 2020, 11:49 AM   #54
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Good to know. Out of curiosity, does this include the LCP II as well?
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Old November 15, 2020, 01:42 PM   #55
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Yes. Though I would further venture to say the LCP II is superior to both in the .380 class.
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Old November 16, 2020, 12:21 AM   #56
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Having played with springs in the P3AT and having taken the LCP chassis out, I would never own the LCP II
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Old November 17, 2020, 10:44 PM   #57
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Wild cat, what is your reasoning for not wanting LCP II?
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Old November 18, 2020, 01:23 AM   #58
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Yes. Though I would further venture to say the LCP II is superior to both in the .380 class.
Why would the LCPll be superior to both in class? Having owned many I have never seen any difference other than cosmetic. I recently bought the LCPll 22 as well. Nothing special in the build quality but good enough for the 22.cal.

All the LCP 380's will fall apart like cheap lawn chair's once any reasonable amount of rounds fired through them. I suspect the Keltec will as well, but at least you can buy a new grip if one cracks and they will.

The LCP's got a lot of attention because they came out when Pocket guns were a hit with the public and Ruger threw millions of dollars into ads.
This new LCP ll 22 I have has a trigger that down right sucks for a Pocket gun. And all these years later Ruger will not invest in a frigging front sight that can be changed out to a night sight. Lame.

Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; November 18, 2020 at 02:30 AM.
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Old November 18, 2020, 03:10 AM   #59
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Wild cat, what is your reasoning for not wanting LCP II?
Probably the light trigger and the warnings Ruger includes that says not to carry with a round in the chamber have something to do with it.
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Old November 20, 2020, 12:00 PM   #60
wild cat mccane
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Having done a fair amount of tinker work on the P3AT (springs, grip, frame, filing, filling, etc) before the LCP, it's not totally drop safe when you start tinkering. The gen2 LCP is about it for upgrades while keeping it safe.

That the LCPII hasn't appeared to suffer reported drop fire issues means nothing to me. It's either pure luck or coming at an angle that will happen. Frankly, it's probably not a dropped a lot of times type of pistol. I think that matters for reporting an issue but doesn't mitigate the risk to the individual user.

The kel tec forum has done extensive testing on the P3AT which is the exact copy Ruger used in the LCP. The consensus? There isn't' much you can do to improve the trigger and keep it safe. Drop tests kept me from the P11 as well when that was the only 10rnd small 9mm. Now own a P365. So I do buy a lot based on features.

I personally, with great effort on the P3AT to improve it, wouldn't touch the LCPII as I do not believe Ruger found a way to make it completely safe. The gen2 LCP took improvements well. The LCPII? No. The blade is the only safety. So that makes it totally different than a PPQ/VP9/60% cocked Glock with a dingus trigger block with an additional physical block.

Page 30 of the LCPII manual confirms the blade is the only fire pin block in the gun (http://ruger-docs.s3.amazonaws.com/_...s6Gb8Dsk45.pdf). That's fine when it's the LCP, LCP gen2 trigger. It is not when it's the LCPII trigger. Also, I care not a fig about the warning on page 26 about drop safety, I'm just referencing the manual over the parts. To full cock the LCPII takes like 1.8mm. So it's sprung ready to fire.

Recall, even the LCP was recalled for drop safety issues. https://ruger.com/LCPRecall/

I do expect the LCPII will have this issue again.

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Old November 20, 2020, 12:55 PM   #61
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People are always going on about how the Ruger LCP will totally disintegrate in short order from regular trips out to the range, but I've seen guys who claim to have had upwards of 10,000 rounds through their LCPs with only smaller parts needing replaced. Supposedly the Gen 1 LCPs (2008-2013) with the smaller sights and a dash in the serial number had issues with the frames/rails cracking, but Gen 2 models as well as the LCP II seem to have addressed this.

If not, big deal. Even if Ruger won't replace them, (which I doubt) then a replacement can be purchased inexpensively. Heck, if I were that worried, I'd just buy another LCP and use one for training, the other for carry, only putting enough rounds through the latter for the sake of ascertaining reliability.

Besides, it seems like all of these little Micro 380s have their flaws. P3AT/LCPs aren't very durable, the S&W 380 Bodyguard ejects a round if you slap a magazine in too hard, the Remington RM380 has spotty reliability, the Taurus Spectrum has light primer strikes, the Beretta Pico is more ammo sensitive than others and has a heavy DAO trigger.

If I wanted a small, ultra-reliable, handgun with good sights that's practically indestructible, then I would carry a Walther PPK. In fact, before I carried an LCP, I carried the subcompact PPK/S, which was excellent. It's a shame that Walther never revived the PPK/L in .380 ACP, as that would actually be a pretty sweet little carry gun.
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Old November 20, 2020, 01:08 PM   #62
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There is a member on here that likes the PICO because it comes with a stainless chassis, therefore has to be superior to all 380 options (not acknowledging all steel is an iron/carbon alloy), and in every posts mentions the aluminum frame of the LCP will crack

Simply isn't true or even documented to a level that means diddly.
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Old November 20, 2020, 02:44 PM   #63
Forte S+W
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I thought that guy got banned, but then again, I could be thinking of the Ruger Forum, as there was a guy who did the exact same thing there.

I find it funny how even in this day and age there are still folks who doubt the longevity of Aluminum and Polymer. I mean, some of them will at least conced that it will law a few decades, but then of course they can't leave with their dignity intact, so they have to follow up that statement with some silly statements about how they won't last a lifetime of use and most certainly won't become a family heirloom.
Frankly, I don't understand the argument that a gun that cannot stand up to generations of use is somehow bad.

My personal favorite argument against polymer frames came from a guy on another forum who literally made the argument that polymer was inferior to steel because it could be melted down with a heat gun. Just to clarify, his argument was essentially; "I don't trust polymer because I could deliberately destroy a polymer frame more easily than steel."
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Old November 20, 2020, 04:08 PM   #64
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Lol, your know exactly that I have posted about the quality of the Pico and yes many times. Just as you have posted about the same firearms. The subject comes up frequently and I post. So what! I thought we made agreement that I would not respond to your post if you did not respond to mine. I know it UN-nerves you that I am a Pico fan boy and you are always there with a comment.
Yes, I have owned many LCP's, I am sure a Lot more than you have and do know something about them. All had grip cracks and one had a crack in the frame, I also had rails that split. All had to be sent in many times for repairs and then replaced. I also posted many Pics of these.
And I will stand by what I said, that the Pico is a much superior built firearm. At least it has Proven itself to me that he can handle a vast amount of ammo down range.
You want a LCP, fine, I will get the Pico (own three of them). Live and let live.

You want to argue that a aluminum alloy is stronger than steel, then be my guest. Go ahead and tell us what guns that is true. Revolvers? 1911's, anything? Please which guns with aluminum alloy are better than one's built with Stainless Steel? Not that I care.
And I also stand by the fact that the Polymer frames of the LCP do crack and showed many pics. I did say that if the Pico were to crack a Polymer grip, it is easily replaced, although I never cracked one.
I did not post my opinion to get into one of your beefs, just my opinion.
Really do not want to get into the dirt with you. If you love the LCP that is fine with me. I have no problem at all.

I still have a LCP, just bought a LCPll 22.cal own three Pico's, and a Keltc P32 and two Karh 380's. I did not know YOU even ownd a Pico?
One of my favorite guns is the LCR9mm and 357. I guess Ruger must have screwd up and used steel for cylinder and upper frame. Just curious, why did they do this? Man they could have just used aluminum.

Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; November 20, 2020 at 05:35 PM.
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Old November 20, 2020, 04:45 PM   #65
wild cat mccane
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It's simple to change the grip on an LCP/P3AT.

Kel Tec has been selling P3AT grips to users on their website for close to 20 years

You're confusing my interest as aluminum vs steel vs what I'm saying that LCP frames don't break--so it doesn't matter what the material is.
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Old November 20, 2020, 04:49 PM   #66
Carl the Floor Walker
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Originally Posted by wild cat mccane View Post
It's simple to change the grip on an LCP/P3AT.

Kel Tec has been selling P3AT grips to users on their website for close to 20 years

You're confusing my interest as aluminum vs steel vs what I'm saying that LCP frames don't break--so it doesn't matter what the material is.
Well, I guess I learn something every day. Yes, I know you can change the Grips on Keltec, but have never seen the part for the Grip on a LCP. I still have one, so would like to get a spare. Can you give me a link Please?
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Old November 20, 2020, 05:21 PM   #67
wild cat mccane
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It's the exact same process between the LCP and P3AT...cause they are the same

Pop those plastic pins out you see on the grip, put a screw driver down the magwell to pop the hammer spring out of place. Lift up your LCP chassis. Reverse order to put it back in. About a 30 second process.


Kel Tec got credit for the first in the world mobile chassis in a handgun. I literally have no idea why you fight this
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Old November 20, 2020, 05:28 PM   #68
Carl the Floor Walker
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I stand corrected, it appears you can purchase the Grip (polymer). However out of stock.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-man...tols-ruger/lcp
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Old November 20, 2020, 05:58 PM   #69
wild cat mccane
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Yep. Spring labeled Part 25 is what is removed with a flat headed screw driver.

It's Ruger who hasn't released grips widely. Kel Tec does. If your LCP grip did break, you'll be getting your entire gun back with just the grip replaced because the LCP has a modular FCU, same as the P3AT it copies.
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Old November 20, 2020, 06:25 PM   #70
Carl the Floor Walker
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They would replace the grips, and then later, a couple would would get a full replacement. I do not remember if Ruger had the Grip part. It has been quite a few years, but I do not recall seeing them for sale back then. Maybe the particular guns just had a issue.
Regardless, the all shot well although not smooth Imo and I never had a problem with ammo or mags. Ruger customer service for me, was a 5 star rating.
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Old November 20, 2020, 10:16 PM   #71
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Just for the heck of it, I searched "Ruger LCP cracked" on Google Images and I only got a handful of results...

One was from a YouTube video featuring a Gen 1 LCP with a crack on the frame just below the rear frame pin, some pictures posted on a forum which appeared to be the exact same LCP featured in the video taken from different angles, and a picture of an LCP with a cracked rail.

So yeah, unless the millions of people who own LCPs just aren't shooting them enough to break them, it would seem to be a rare occurrence. Granted that I'm sure many folks don't run their LCPs very hard because they're uncomfortable to shoot and the sights don't lend themselves to accurate shooting, so I can see most shooters taking it out to the range a couple times before they decide that they've had enough, can't shoot it any better, and that they've shot it enough to verify that it's reliable. However, presumptions based on limited observations aren't evidence, and should never be treated as such, so there's no way to tell either way.

Also, as previously stated, I've read posts by a guy on the Ruger Pistol Forum who claimed to have over 10,000 rounds through his LCP, and the only thing that broke according to him was the takedown pin which went somewhere around 5000. That said, he claimed to frequently replace the recoil and hammer springs, particularly the recoil spring because he believed that what would cause the frame/rails/pin to crack was the slide battering the frame once the springs started to get weak.

Regardless, it makes no difference whatsoever so long as you perform regular maintenance/inspection of your firearms, as any problems which may arise can be quickly addressed before they become problematic, Ruger seems like they'll repair these things indefinitely should anything break due to ordinary use, and even if they don't, they're inexpensive.
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Old November 21, 2020, 02:10 AM   #72
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My Gen 1 LCP cracked right below the rear frame pin as you described, after around 2000 rounds. Ruger took care of it, essentially gave me back a new gun, built around the original serial number chassis.
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Old November 21, 2020, 04:32 AM   #73
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I started looking for cracks starting around the 1500 rd mark. I think the highest I got on one was around 22-2300 rds. I do know one guy that reported 3,000 rds but I think that is a anomaly. I am obsessive in changing out recoil springs on a regular schedule. I would order 4 or 5 at a time and change them out around 4-5 hundred rounds. Do that now with all my 380 pocket guns. On the LCP, I would also order extra take down pins as I had many of those break. There is a after market company that does sell a upgraded steel pin that seems to work from other fans have reported. I think the cost is around $15.00.
I do not shoot the LCP much any longer, but I have a heavier Wolf spring in it. I believe the heavier springs are worth the cost.
I could not tell you about the LCPll. Maybe Ruger made some changes and they last longer, however I have not kept up with it.

Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; November 21, 2020 at 04:47 AM.
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Old November 21, 2020, 06:09 AM   #74
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The extractor broke at round #753 on my Gen 2 LCP.
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Old November 21, 2020, 09:33 AM   #75
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all that lcp/pico stuff aside, how 'bout dat P32?

I often read people saying 7.3 oz. bla bla bla bla..... mine weighed more that that loaded, and loaded is the only way to go with the P32. I've done two "upgrades" to my P32, a metal recoil spring guide rod and a metal belt clip. Neither were needed, the guide rod was not damaged and the belt clip (1.0 oz) allows the saving of a mere .2 oz over a soft pocket holster (.8 oz) the total weight of my loaded and "upgraded" P32 is 10.2oz. I could probably bring that down by 1.5 ounces by going back to a plastic recoil spring guide rod, removal of the belt clip, and using lighter ammo; but I lose a mode of carry that way as well as the penetration value of fmj ammo. I'm ok with 10.2 ounces

edit: site won't let me post the same pic twice in different topics for some reason.
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