The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 12, 2020, 03:35 PM   #26
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 5,345
Quote:
.380 ACP factually isn't all that much of a better performer than .32 ACP, and I honestly trust Kel-Tec more than Kahr because Kel-Tec doesn't ask if you've fired 250+ rounds through your gun before they'll let you send it in for service if you get a bad egg.
I’m really having a hard time with 32 ACP isn’t much better than 380 auto.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/poc...results/#32ACP

32acp - largest expanded diameter to meet penetration spec (12-18”) 60 gr....0.39”...125%

380 acp - 90gr ...0.52” ...146% at 12-18”

9mm - 147gr.....0.74” ...208%

380 seems squarely in the middle, but definitely more than 32 auto, IMO. I just have a hard time with that 0.39” or 0.31” number for fmj being good.
Nathan is offline  
Old November 12, 2020, 05:34 PM   #27
wild cat mccane
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 2,138
Magguts makes a spring that puts 7 rounds into an LCP/P3AT stock 6 round magazine. They DO NOT make it for the P32.

Therefore, the +1 advantage to the P32 doesn't exist.

I use the Magguts spring in my LCP. It works.
wild cat mccane is offline  
Old November 12, 2020, 06:35 PM   #28
kymasabe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 10, 2005
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 2,508
I'm on my second P32.
First one was gen1, I put over 2000 rounds thru it and eventually wore the finish off the slide from use and sweaty pocket carry (SW Florida).
Sold it, bought a gen3 with parkerized slide, approaching 1800 rounds with this one.
Mine (both) ate everything I fed them, not ammo picky, have been 100% reliable. I did however experience rimlock once with a mag full of hollow points, so I now carry one HP in the pipe and FMJ in the mags.
It's my EDC.
My experience has been that they're great guns, reliable, low recoil, easy to maintain. I like them so much, I bought one (gen2) for my daughter, she shoots it regularly, lost track of round count in hers.
__________________
God's creatures big and small, eat them one, eat them all.
kymasabe is offline  
Old November 12, 2020, 06:41 PM   #29
Forte S+W
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2019
Posts: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan
I’m really having a hard time with 32 ACP isn’t much better than 380 auto.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/poc...results/#32ACP

32acp - largest expanded diameter to meet penetration spec (12-18”) 60 gr....0.39”...125%

380 acp - 90gr ...0.52” ...146% at 12-18”

9mm - 147gr.....0.74” ...208%

380 seems squarely in the middle, but definitely more than 32 auto, IMO. I just have a hard time with that 0.39” or 0.31” number for fmj being good.
Statistical figures look a lot more substantial on paper than they really are in practice. Yes, .380 ACP is larger diameter bullet which in turn expands to an even larger diameter with JHPs compared to .32 ACP, and that's something, but how often do you estimate that said larger diameter bullet is actually enough to make a meaningful difference when it comes to actually hitting a vital organ? In practice, a hit would still be a hit, a miss would still be a miss, and even if the larger diameter of the .380 ACP were enough to score a hit where a .32 ACP would have missed, the difference would amount to the .380 ACP merely grazing a vital organ, resulting in a wound which still would not incapacitate the threat.

Penetration is more important than expansion.

That being said, if you like .380 ACP and feel more confident with it, then by all means carry it. I myself don't own a .32 ACP at present and carry a Ruger LCP chambered in .380 ACP. What's more, my primary carry is a SW40VE chambered in .40 S&W, (a cartridge which I'm very fond of if my username didn't tip you off) which according to the FBI is practically no more effective than 9mm Luger, yet still I choose it over 9mm Luger because I like that the bullet is larger in diameter. So yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm just saying that when it comes right down to it, .380 ACP isn't substantially more effective than .380 ACP, provided that the .32 ACP ammo penetrates deeply enough to be effective in the first place.
__________________
.40 S&W is the perfect example of a Zombie Cartridge. Allegedly it has been dead since 2016, yet it continues to walk among us.
Forte S+W is offline  
Old November 12, 2020, 06:58 PM   #30
Mike38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2009
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 2,484
I bought a Kel-Tec P32 about 4-5 months ago. My first range test was at 5 yards. I figured that would be a good starting point, thinking that would be a average self defense distance. Five shots at a slow fire pace, about 10 seconds between each shot. All 5 shots were with in a 1 inch group using the least expensive ball ammo I could find at Target Sports. Moved target out to 10 yards. Same slow fire pace. All shots with in a 3 inch group. Back to 5 yards at rapid fire, as fast as I could pull the trigger. One flier low that was me, but all with in 3 inches. So, it's plenty accurate. 300+ rounds later, mostly my reloads, and it has run flawlessly. Like the light weight. Sometimes forget I'm even carrying it it's so light. I'm glad I bought it.

The first thing you'll want to do is "deburr" the entire pistol. All cast parting lines on the frame will need to be sanded. There was a line going down the middle of the trigger that was brutal on my finger. Same for the front and back strap. Some people even lightly sand the grips because they tend to dig a bit too much into your hands. I left the grip area alone, as I like the idea of it digging into my hand a bit so it doesn't slip. There isn't much there to hang on to, and don't want it slipping in my hand from recoil. The .32 acp is normally a cat, but in this small of a pistol, it snaps pretty good.

Last edited by Mike38; November 12, 2020 at 07:05 PM.
Mike38 is offline  
Old November 12, 2020, 07:04 PM   #31
JERRYS.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,922
now that I looked, no one has Kel-tec P32 barrels in stock. wow! I think I need one for an inherited gun that wasn't taken care of.
JERRYS. is offline  
Old November 12, 2020, 07:14 PM   #32
JohnMoses
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 11, 2008
Posts: 182
I bought a used first gen P32 hard chromed slide for $180. I put 1500 handloads though it and literally wore it out. I just came across the receipt when I sent it back to the factory. The only original parts are the barrel and slide. They even kept the serial number, with an asterisk or something. All at no cost. Is the 32 the wand of death? No, but neither is ANY handgun caliber. Knockdown? Check out Bill Davis shooting himself on utube with 44 mags and 308 rifles.
JohnMoses is offline  
Old November 12, 2020, 08:03 PM   #33
Forte S+W
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2019
Posts: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by JERRYS.
now that I looked, no one has Kel-tec P32 barrels in stock. wow! I think I need one for an inherited gun that wasn't taken care of.
Contact Kel-Tec and see if they have any.
__________________
.40 S&W is the perfect example of a Zombie Cartridge. Allegedly it has been dead since 2016, yet it continues to walk among us.
Forte S+W is offline  
Old November 12, 2020, 08:20 PM   #34
JERRYS.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,922
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forte S+W View Post
Contact Kel-Tec and see if they have any.
their website says no they don't.
JERRYS. is offline  
Old November 12, 2020, 09:27 PM   #35
Joe_Pike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2010
Posts: 1,546
I've had one and it worked just fine. Traded it for a Ruger LCP. I would rather have a .380. I know people complain about the recoil on the P3AT and LCP but it doesn't bother me at all and I'm old with hands that hurt all of the time. Shoot an Airweight J-frame with 158 +p rounds if you want some recoil.
__________________
Stay Groovy
Joe_Pike is offline  
Old November 13, 2020, 07:56 PM   #36
dgludwig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2005
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 7,266
Quote:
Stick with fmj ammo. Hollow points can result in rim lock with the semi rimmed 32acp.
Why are hp bullets more likely to cause "rim-lock" than fmj bullets?
__________________
ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED
...Aristotle
NRA Benefactor Life Member
dgludwig is offline  
Old November 13, 2020, 07:57 PM   #37
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 20,936
I like, but I don't have.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old November 13, 2020, 08:04 PM   #38
dgludwig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2005
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 7,266
Quote:
Much like it's bigger brother, the .32 ACP seems to be adequate for self-defense, provided that you stick exclusively to JHPs that use the Hornady XTP bullet design, that way you'll get a fairly consistent 12" of penetration in Ballistics Gel, which if the FBI is to be believed, translates to adequate penetration to stop a determined attacker with proper shot placement.
If you're concerned with adequate penetration, why not just use hardball? JHP bullets aren't likely to expand anyway, given the relatively low velocity offered by typical .32 ACP ammunition, and hardball is not only cheaper but, imo, less likely to cause trouble chambering a cartridge than most any other type of bullet.
__________________
ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED
...Aristotle
NRA Benefactor Life Member
dgludwig is offline  
Old November 13, 2020, 08:49 PM   #39
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 10,242
I have the 380. I won't get involved in the 32 vs 380 debate other than to say the 32 holds 1 more round and has the ability to hold the slide back. At least I think I'm correct on those points.

The pistol is the least favorite of any that I own. But nothing else is as compact. I don't shoot mine a lot, certainly not recreationally. I take it out and put a few rounds through it occasionally just to practice and verify it still functions.

I don't see this as the type of gun that will hold up to thousands of rounds like bigger guns. I only carry it in extreme situations where it is something that small or nothing.

But while it isn't my favorite gun, it isn't for sale either. It has always functioned and nothing else will fill that role in a gun so small. Except possibly Rugers copy.

I would assume the everything would be the same with the 32.
__________________
"If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong"

Winston Churchill
jmr40 is offline  
Old November 13, 2020, 09:12 PM   #40
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 10,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgludwig View Post
Why are hp bullets more likely to cause "rim-lock" than fmj bullets?
JHP ammunition is shorter, and can move more in the magazine.
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old November 13, 2020, 09:24 PM   #41
Carl the Floor Walker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2017
Posts: 930
Between the Keltec 32 and between the Keltec 380 and all the LCP's. The 32 is far ahead of all of them. The 32.cal Imo is what these two (Ruger and Keltec) should have made instead of the 380. The 32. is a sweet shooting little Pocket gun and at only 6 1/2 oz. is really light and easy to shoot and carry. For 380 there are much better choices than the Keltc and Ruger.

Carl the Floor Walker is offline  
Old November 13, 2020, 09:25 PM   #42
wild cat mccane
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 2,138
Don't worry about a JHP in 32. There isn't a quality JHP when compared to 380. So use FMJ. Because FMJ isn't recommended for defense in any other caliber.



I think you have to want go in liking 32 to (ever) pick it over 380.
wild cat mccane is offline  
Old November 13, 2020, 09:31 PM   #43
Forte S+W
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2019
Posts: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgludwig
If you're concerned with adequate penetration, why not just use hardball? JHP bullets aren't likely to expand anyway, given the relatively low velocity offered by typical .32 ACP ammunition, and hardball is not only cheaper but, imo, less likely to cause trouble chambering a cartridge than most any other type of bullet.
Because Hornady XTPs penetrate 12" into ballistics gel, generally expand reliably even out of short barrels like that of the P32, (see the link I posted) and even on the occassion that they don't, they function like FMJs anyway, ergo there's no valid reason to choose FMJ over XTPs.
Also, the more conical profile and narrow cavity of the XTP bullet's design mitigates the risk of rimlock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker
Between the Keltec 32 and between the Keltec 380 and all the LCP's. The 32 is far ahead of all of them. The 32.cal Imo is what these two (Ruger and Keltec) should have made instead of the 380. The 32. is a sweet shooting little Pocket gun and at only 6 1/2 oz. is really light and easy to shoot and carry. For 380 there are much better choices than the Keltc and Ruger.
I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I myself carry a Ruger LCP, which I choose because based on my research, it was the best all around .380 ACP Pocket Pistol because it was inexpensive yet high quality, with over a decade of proven reliability to its name, and made by a company which stands by its product with industry-leading customer service.

Honestly, I'm a Smith & Wesson guy, yet I chose the Ruger LCP over the S&W M&P380 Bodyguard because it had a better track record. In addition, the LCP replaced my Walther PPK/S for carry, which is one of my favorite pistols of all time, so it had big shoes to fill, yet filled them well.

Also, even if Ruger had offered the LCP in .32 ACP as well as .380 ACP, I still would have bought it in .380 ACP because I like the cartridge better.
__________________
.40 S&W is the perfect example of a Zombie Cartridge. Allegedly it has been dead since 2016, yet it continues to walk among us.

Last edited by Forte S+W; November 13, 2020 at 09:56 PM.
Forte S+W is offline  
Old November 14, 2020, 12:24 AM   #44
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 8,305
Quote:
Between the Keltec 32 and between the Keltec 380 and all the LCP's. The 32 is far ahead of all of them. The 32.cal Imo is what these two (Ruger and Keltec) should have made instead of the 380. The 32. is a sweet shooting little Pocket gun and at only 6 1/2 oz. is really light and easy to shoot and carry. For 380 there are much better choices than the Keltc and Ruger.
Do those "Extream" rounds work in your P32. They turn my 8 shot 32 into a single shooter. The round in the tube goes bang, and the next round is rim locked. No matter how careful I am at properly "stacking" the rounds in the mag. Or have you done the Flyer Wire mod?
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old November 14, 2020, 06:32 AM   #45
kymasabe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 10, 2005
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 2,508
As mentioned above, dont worry about hollow points in .32, they rarely expand and don't penetrate nearly deep enough. FMJ is still the best choice for .32acp.
(Or so I've been told).
__________________
God's creatures big and small, eat them one, eat them all.
kymasabe is offline  
Old November 14, 2020, 08:36 AM   #46
JohnMoses
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 11, 2008
Posts: 182
The extream rounds feed fine in my P32. Last round out of the magazine misfeeds, so I load a fmj. It chrono's about 900 fps out of the KelTec, so I really doubt there's much hydraulic action. Still, as long as it feeds, it should penetrate at least as good as a fmj. The European fmj's are much better than American fmj. Italian Fiocci and German Geco were the best.
JohnMoses is offline  
Old November 14, 2020, 08:40 AM   #47
Adventurer 2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2006
Posts: 574
2002ish I replaced a Beretta M21a with a Kel-Tec 32. Lighter handgun - more powerful than 22lr. Replaced the back pin with a pin and clip for inside waistBand carry. Picked up an extended magazine. Learned hollow pints didn’t always function. Went to one hollow point in the barrel and Fiocchi hardball in the magazine. I took it apart for clean and lube bi-weekly. Always felt it was delicate - the holder for the recoil rod spring was dovetailed in (and would fall out during cleaning). The guide rod was a thin plastic one. And the spring felt weak. I replaced it with a first gen LCP - which was replaced with a Kahr CM 380. Anyway for it’s time - I think it was an excellent option for carry at all times, but not today.
Adventurer 2 is offline  
Old November 14, 2020, 01:54 PM   #48
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 10,556
The P32 is far from delicate.
The gun was designed to be as lightweight and thin as possible. They are locked breech guns, so the recoil spring does not have to be as strong as a blowback gun.

The LCP was an almost direct copy of the KT P3AT, except they made it heavier and slicked up the plastic frame a little. It was marketing genius. People think that because it's heavier, that it's better (it's not.) Plus it was a Ruger.....

The P32 is still the thinnest, lightest .32 auto ever made. Bigger is not always better.
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old November 14, 2020, 02:19 PM   #49
Forte S+W
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2019
Posts: 536
The LCP is heavier because it has an aluminum chassis embedded in the frame whereas the P3AT does not. Dunno if that makes it "better" per se, but it certainly makes it more durable, so it's not like the added weight does nothing or was added for the sole purpose of making the gun artificially feel more durable.

Also, it helps that the LCP comes in a variety of different colors and configurations.

My Ruger LCP is actually the 10th Anniversary Limited Edition with a Stainless Steel slide with front/rear serrations and an skeletonized aluminum trigger.


As a fan of the low maintenance of Stainless Steel as well as the aesthetic of duotone pistols, the LCP 10th Anniversary Edition appealed to me on both a practical and aesthetic level.

__________________
.40 S&W is the perfect example of a Zombie Cartridge. Allegedly it has been dead since 2016, yet it continues to walk among us.

Last edited by Forte S+W; November 14, 2020 at 02:30 PM.
Forte S+W is offline  
Old November 14, 2020, 03:55 PM   #50
Carl the Floor Walker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2017
Posts: 930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheapshooter View Post
Do those "Extream" rounds work in your P32. They turn my 8 shot 32 into a single shooter. The round in the tube goes bang, and the next round is rim locked. No matter how careful I am at properly "stacking" the rounds in the mag. Or have you done the Flyer Wire mod?
Actually they work fine no misfeeds at all. I made sure that it would handle the ammo and shot quite a few rds through the gun. Not a lot, something like 5 or 6 boxes. But I also do not get and problems with range ammo either. I do use the extra poundage recoil springs. and careful to load each round. Pocket gun shooting has been my hobby since the First LCP came out. I think it is possible people maybe limp wristing the P32 without realizing it.
I put some where around 12-15,000 rounds through multiple LCP's. Nice little guns, reliable, but just do not hold up very well like others in the same class. And not as smooth shooting, more harsh than others. They really need to get a front night sight. (but Ruger will replace them when they do go down, to a point anyway),
Carl the Floor Walker is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2020 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.10289 seconds with 8 queries