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Old January 16, 2021, 07:45 PM   #51
Carl the Floor Walker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shurshot View Post
"If you want to blame on Wayne of the NRA is fine."(Carl the Floor Walker).

Carl, Wayne truly needs a "Night in the box".

Love Cool Hand Luke!!!!
"What we have hear is a failure to communicate." (Captain)

Ironically Just watched Cool Hand Luke the other night for about the 100th time. Ps, not to get off the subject, but watch "Sometimes a great Notion"Paul Newman, Henry Fonda

Because nothing can be done about the rain except blaming. And if nothing can be done about it, why get yourself in a sweat about it?”
― Ken Kesey, Sometimes a Great Notion

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Old January 16, 2021, 07:52 PM   #52
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People so zealous in their hate for Wayne cannot IMO see the whole picture. The loss of the NRA will be staggering. But again regardless of Wayne, the NRA is now doomed like all of the 2A organizations. Censorship and banning now is just the beginning. Come a year form now, you will not even remember the NRA. You will have a whole lot more on your plate to worry about. (Lol,actually a whole lot less).

Example, to get a NRA Instructor's certification now is a waste of time and money. If you want to place the blame on Wayne of the NRA that is fine. Blame who you want. The bottom line is there will be no NRA and there will be no 2A.
You are right, but Wayne and the board of directors are the only ones who can stop it. They could save the NRA. They could restore the trust. They are stubbornly and selfishly refusing to do this.

Whether you are a fan or not, it's clear that many, if not most gun owners have no faith in the current NRA leadership. They are destroying the institution by not taking action to change this.

I definitely do not want to see the NRA go. It saddens me, and it frightens me. But it is being destroyed from within.
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Old January 16, 2021, 08:05 PM   #53
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WLP will go down with the ship, even if the ship could right itself if he'd just leave.

When the president of an organization (Oliver North, who I don't like, btw) calls for a financial audit and the executive vice president somehow deposes him for it, that's a real good sign that the VP is a thief. And the board members are complicit. F! all of them. I think a lot of the board members are in for a rude awakening that they are criminally liable for their nonfeasance. The attempt to move to Texas is an act of desperation.

They couldn't have picked a worse time to aim the torpedoes at themselves.
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Old January 16, 2021, 11:06 PM   #54
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Being a member of the NRA, I just received an email that I believe more than MSM or any politician's "yellow journalism." Sad... In a nutshell, the NRA is indeed moving to Texas to get away from NY idiots. They are not insolvent. The toxic and commie environment of some northern states, including NY, seems too much for them.
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Old January 16, 2021, 11:14 PM   #55
Carl the Floor Walker
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Should we give him a fair trial and hang him or just hang him now? A lot of folks here seem to know more about his crimes than both sides of the Court system. Maybe we should just let CNN try him and then hang him. They seem to be doing this across the board anyway.
Yea, it is a powerful Organization and like all of them, they have to watch their back as I am sure there are plenty in his circle that would gladly put a knife in his back for that power. Millions of enemies on the Left, enemies on the right and some sitting right next to him.
They say it is lonely at the top. Man, I sure would not want his job. I would not touch it for all he Whiskey in Ireland.

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Old January 16, 2021, 11:44 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker
For those that hate the NRA, I think that you have no worries. They will be taken down and so will the 2A rights. Especially in the coming years. I am sure many will dance a jig when the NRA is gone. Seems to be the consensus on this forum.
I don't know where you are seeing that consensus. My perception is that the consensus on this site (and many other sites) is that the NRA is (was) a worthwhile organization that should be saved, but that Wayne LaPierre and his cronies on the board are the cancer that is endangering the organization and should be excised. I don't think many members here will be dancing any jigs if the NRA is dissolved, but I do think many of us will be celebrating if Wayne LaPierre is removed from the NRA and the organization is given back to its membership.
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Old January 17, 2021, 12:47 PM   #57
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La Pierre caught on tape at BOD meeting in January, 2020 :

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/21/83999...ation-100-mill
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Old January 17, 2021, 01:50 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thallub
La Pierre caught on tape at BOD meeting in January, 2020 :

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/21/83999...ation-100-mill
From the article:

Quote:
Subsequently, the New York and D.C. attorneys general launched investigations into the NRA's finances. Eight board members have resigned over the last year. And the NRA has been locked into protracted and costly legal battles with its longtime public relations firm.
Most of the board members who resigned were big names in the firearms industry, such as Pete Brownell. None of them, to my recollection, ever attributed their resignations to LaPierre's shenanigans, but my supposition was that they felt they had to resign to protect themselves from potential liability.

I can't speak for all states, I only know this to be true for my state. (But I expect that many states have similar provisions.) In my home state, when an organization does something illegal, members of the governing board who didn't vote against the illegal action or activity are liable for it. When I chaired my home town's Planning and Zoning Commission, some of the members had a long-standing habit of abstaining on issues they thought were dodgy but which they didn't want to go on record as opposing (for political reasons). There was considerable shock among them when I came in one evening and circulated a copy of the state law that explicitly said abstentions don't count as opposition.

In the absence of anything to suggest otherwise, I continue to believe that Pete Brownell and the other board members resigned because they felt they couldn't afford the potential liability of being directors in the face of LaPierre's self-serving, self-dealing activities and proclivities.
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Old January 17, 2021, 04:17 PM   #59
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The New York and District of Columbia attorney generals turned over information gleaned from their investigations to the IRS.
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Old January 18, 2021, 10:32 AM   #60
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Quote:
I don't know where you are seeing that consensus. My perception is that the consensus on this site (and many other sites) is that the NRA is (was) a worthwhile organization that should be saved, but that Wayne LaPierre and his cronies on the board are the cancer that is endangering the organization and should be excised. I don't think many members here will be dancing any jigs if the NRA is dissolved, but I do think many of us will be celebrating if Wayne LaPierre is removed from the NRA and the organization is given back to its membership.
Thank you Aguila Blanca. Well said.

I'm sick over the whole state of affairs. We need the NRA more than ever now.
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Old January 18, 2021, 07:51 PM   #61
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The reason to file bankruptcy exists when the potential liabilities exceed the assets. This allows a bankruptcy court to supervise the process of dissolution or reorganization. Once bankruptcy is filed there is usually a stay entered which prohibits state court litigation from continuing. I don’t practice bankruptcy law so I’m not that up to date on how a stay would work in this instance.

Keep in mind the bankruptcy court has a lot of power to modify debts, restructure organizations, and otherwise right the ship. If the ship can’t be righted then usually there will be a liquidation with assets being sold to satisfy creditors. The benefit of going into bankruptcy court is to essentially make it about money and only about money. The bankruptcy court is unlikely to care about the other relief sought by the state of New York and will simply relegate it to being another creditor who will get pennies on the dollar of its claim.

One of the most valuable assets the NRA has is its names and trademarks. A liquidation could allow someone with anti gun views to purchase the name and trademarks of the NRA and use it for an organization that supports gun control.

The bankruptcy filing seems like a way to get this all under control without having to litigate in state court. The NY AG can oppose the bankruptcy but it’s pretty hard for a creditor to get a bankruptcy dismissed. If the board of directors is a problem the bankruptcy trustee and court could potentially appoint new members and a new executive director. The only thing I can predict in this case are more legal fees.
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Old January 19, 2021, 02:14 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca View Post
I don't know where you are seeing that consensus. My perception is that the consensus on this site (and many other sites) is that the NRA is (was) a worthwhile organization that should be saved, but that Wayne LaPierre and his cronies on the board are the cancer that is endangering the organization and should be excised. I don't think many members here will be dancing any jigs if the NRA is dissolved, but I do think many of us will be celebrating if Wayne LaPierre is removed from the NRA and the organization is given back to its membership.

Agree


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Old January 19, 2021, 01:26 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzcook
Quote:
Boy, that yubanet article sure shows the anti-gunners can go to absurd degrees of reinterpretation to twist the meaning and intent of words.
This is what Nugent linked to.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210107...ibetaiota.net/

Quote:
Quote:
7 January 2021

It is not over. The mob was Antifa and it was an inside job with DC and Capitol Police complicity.

Pence and every Member of Congress complicit in the proven election fraud sedition is now eligible for arrest, Tribunal, and execution by firing squad.

POTUS has not conceded.

I have reached out to my contacts and will update this later today.
I'd say that suggests support for the insurrectionist. YMMV
That's Ted Nugent speaking for Ted Nugent, not for the NRA. It was a red herring included in the article to give an unfavorable impression of The Association by its association with Nugent. The twisting I'm referring to is not of Nugent’s statement but rather interpreting the content of a fund-raising letter written long before January 6th as supporting or promoting insurrection or as "fanning the flames of right wing {sic} extremism." Those fund-raising letters have been similarly worded for all the decades I've been a member, including many from before LaPierre first became EVP (Neal Knox could write a stirring plea for funding). It is only exploitation of the context of current events that provides anti-gun groups an opportunity to reinterpret "win[ning] knock-down brawls" as anything but a metaphorical reference to winning political fights. If January sixth had not happened, that wording would not have garnered any remarks at all.
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Old January 19, 2021, 07:39 PM   #64
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I just received a "final" invitation to renew my NRA membership, with the carrot being a hat, a flashlight and a knife, a Sherpa blanket, or a Ridgeline FDE Backpack, each one, of course, accompanying a higher renewal fee. The 4-page letter from Wayne Lapierre offered no explanation regarding the current financial conundrum that might quell my discomfort with the NRA administration.

So I wrote a letter to Wayne, in which I discussed this concern, while I copied my membership card that revealed the expiration date is January 1, 2022. What, pray tell, did you do with my 2021 dues if you need more before 2022?
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Old January 19, 2021, 08:20 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdoc42
What, pray tell, did you do with my 2021 dues if you need more before 2022?
Well, that big new house in Dallas won't be free you know. Plus you have the cars, driver(s), household staff, gardeners, it just goes on and on. And, of course, some new suits.

LOL, 'lil Wayne turned the NRA into his personal piggy bank, but then he needed his own Ponzi scheme to keep it funded. Give it a couple more years, your "final" invitation for 2026 will come in early 2023.
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Old January 19, 2021, 09:05 PM   #66
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the enemy or your enemy is your friend. the tax man/ny state attorney getting wlp on the chopping block and out of the NRA could be just what the NRA needs to survive and regain lost members as well as gaining new ones.
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Old January 19, 2021, 11:36 PM   #67
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When WLP is gone and the bylaws are changed in a manner that will allow regular members a voice for leadership, I may contribute again.

Until then, I will contribute to FPC.
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Old January 20, 2021, 07:29 AM   #68
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When WLP is gone
I've seen these scenarios before. WLP is never going to leave. He's going to ride this gravy train right into the dumpster.
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Old January 21, 2021, 03:36 PM   #69
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It makes me sad. What’s happened to the NRA is also happening to America and many other institutions i love.
The NRA was once strong and could not have been felled by her most ardent enemies. But she can be dismantled by wolves in sheep’s clothing from within. And that’s what happened.

Seems like other wolves are working to dismantle America as well. Pray we don’t let it happen.


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Old January 21, 2021, 07:20 PM   #70
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No surprise, the New York judge has denied the NRA petition to throw out or transfer the lawsuit to federal court. Link to NPR article.
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Old January 22, 2021, 05:21 PM   #71
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I just found a link to an article by an actual lawyer (as opposed to NPR, which is hardly an unbiased source) about the NRA's attempt to move their case to Texas -- and why it's going to be an uphill battle for the NRA:

https://www.creditslips.org/creditsl...ankruptcy.html

I wondered how the NRA figured they had any standing to file in Texas. According to this article (blog), they apparently created a new entity in Texas expressly to give them some semblance of a presence in Texas to legitimize filing in Texas. I doubted the move would succeed, and it appears the lawyer who wrote this blog has some reservations about it, as well.
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Old January 22, 2021, 06:44 PM   #72
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I don't think this is a serious attempt by the NRA. This seems, to me, more like a cheap play to the membership and to grab press.

To make these filings, and then immediately go out and publicly undermine the case just seems particularly sleazy stuff. I guess I shouldn't be surprised anymore.
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Old January 24, 2021, 12:00 PM   #73
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From US Code:


Quote:
(a)Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a petition filed under section 301, 302, or 303 of this title, or an application filed under section 5(a)(3) of the Securities Investor Protection Act of 1970, operates as a stay, applicable to all entities, of—
(1)the commencement or continuation, including the issuance or employment of process, of a judicial, administrative, or other action or proceeding against the debtor that was or could have been commenced before the commencement of the case under this title, or to recover a claim against the debtor that arose before the commencement of the case under this title;
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/362
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Old January 24, 2021, 06:13 PM   #74
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I can't speak to the seriousness of the effort, but the fact the ACLU is siding with the NRA's right to exist suggests the NY AG is out of line. It's the second time, recently, as they also support the NRA's lawsuit against Governor Cuomo's actions trying to get banks and insurance companies to stop doing business with the NRA.

The accusations against LaPierre's management are still just accusations. The sources all seem to have axes to grind, so they will need to be proven in court. The optics are bad, but rumors and misinformation always abound.

I'm just not comfortable with presuming guilt and will wait for the courts to decide what is real and what is innuendo.

I was a Neal Knox follower rather than a LaPierre follower, and was present and voted that way when the rules were changed in Seattle. I never thought that was a good direction, though it probably has resulted in substantial expansion of the membership base and the political clout that comes with it. The constant fund raising is a nuisance but so are the endless runs at new gun control laws. I am asked to re-up my annual Golden Eagle status every three months or so, I think. But if I look closely at the request, it doesn't actually say my Golden Eagle status is expiring, but rather that the offer for the gift that I'll get if I do re-up early is what is expiring. I don't need any more gift items, though the last pocket knife they sent has proved useful.
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Old January 24, 2021, 06:41 PM   #75
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Good for the ACLU. They are correct, and there's another wrinkle that the article doesn't touch on. The law that AG James wants to use isn't intended to dissolve non-profit organizations. The law is intended to protect the membership of such organizations from the depredations of unscrupulous officers. Consequently, I could see the law being used to remove Wayne LaPierre and much of the board of directors, but dissolving the organization is punishing the victims. I don't think the NY law contemplates that.
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