Which Colt?

mpescatori · February 16, 2023, 06:49 PM

Hello all, Maurizio here from Rome, Italy.
I currently own a 4"S&W66 (bought new in 1982) and an oldish 4" S&W 27 (or is it a 28? Highway Patrolman).
I'm now looking for a Colt counterpart.
Possibilities are the Border Patrolman, the (State?) Trooper and the Python, and should come with a 4" barrel for coherence.
Used, as most Colts here are collector's items, not working guns.
My question is...
What's the difference between a Border Patrolman and a Trooper?
Other than the heavy barrel shroud, any difference with the Python? It's awfully expensive...
Thank you for shedding light on this.

Inviato dal mio GM1913 utilizzando Tapatalk

44caliberkid · February 16, 2023, 08:36 PM

The first issue Border Patrolman was in 1952, a 38 Special made in small numbers, less than 500, and was discontinued. There was a resurrection of the name in 1970 to 1975, when it was applied to a flat finished blued Colt Trooper. Similar to the S&W Model 27 (polished blue) and the Model 28 Highway Patrolman (flat or satin finished blue). So you had the highly polished Trooper and it’s flat finished twin brother, the Border Patrolman. I’ve heard on this forum that some of the Troopers had soft lock work parts and no replacement parts are available. However, I still like the Troopers, but I have never owned one. You might also consider a Colt Lawman in 357 mag. Troopers currently bring $800 -$1000, Lawman about the same, never saw a Border Patrolman for sale.
The old Python was a completely different gun.

**44 AMP** · February 16, 2023, 10:13 PM

Quote:

and an oldish 4" S&W 27 (or is it a 28? Highway Patrolman).

If the gun says "Highway Patrolman" on the barrel, its a model 28. Finish was "satin blue" The same gun with the high lustre blue, target hammer & trigger and some other small cosmetic differences is the Model 27. They are the large "N" frame, and there is no direct Colt counterpart.

RoyceP · February 17, 2023, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

If the gun says "Highway Patrolman" on the barrel, its a model 28. Finish was "satin blue" The same gun with the high lustre blue, target hammer & trigger and some other small cosmetic differences is the Model 27. They are the large "N" frame, and there is no direct Colt counterpart.

Actually I disagree with most of this. First of all the Highway Patrolman revolvers were produced by S&W for years before there were any model numbers. You can't call something by a Model number that didn't exist.

Second, Colt made a similar large frame revolver called the Shooting Master that was chambered in 38 Special, or the same basic revolver called the "New Service" in 357 magnum caliber (among many others, as was the case with S&W N frame revolvers).

While S&W clearly dominated the category of police - sold revolvers post WWII, Colt was the leader pre - WWII.

**44 AMP** · February 17, 2023, 01:58 PM

Quote:

First of all the Highway Patrolman revolvers were produced by S&W for years before there were any model numbers.

yes, and those years were two, possibly 3. Best information I have at this time is that guns marked Highway Patrolman showed up in or around 1955, and S&W introduced their model number system in 1957.

The Colt New Service .357 was introduced in 1937 and production ended with the switch to WW II production, and never resumed.

If you have different info, please share!

RoyceP · February 17, 2023, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpescatori

Hello all, Maurizio here from Rome, Italy.
I currently own a 4"S&W66 (bought new in 1982) and an oldish 4" S&W 27 (or is it a 28? Highway Patrolman).
I'm now looking for a Colt counterpart.
Possibilities are the Border Patrolman, the (State?) Trooper and the Python, and should come with a 4" barrel for coherence.
Used, as most Colts here are collector's items, not working guns.
My question is...
What's the difference between a Border Patrolman and a Trooper?
Other than the heavy barrel shroud, any difference with the Python? It's awfully expensive...
Thank you for shedding light on this.

Inviato dal mio GM1913 utilizzando Tapatalk

Maurizio,

The Colt Trooper was the only official offering that was meant to compete with both the Model 19 Combat Magnum and the Model 28 Highway Patrol. The Trooper is a little larger than a Model 19 but much smaller than the Model 28. Colt did not make any stainless revolvers to compete with the Model 66 which is the stainless version of the Model 19.

The Colt Trooper:

RoyceP · February 17, 2023, 07:09 PM

The Shooting Master Colt 357 Magnum was a pretty close match to the Model 19 S&W. They tend to be pretty expensive.

SIGSHR · February 17, 2023, 07:26 PM

The Colt Trooper (38 Special) and .357 were introduced in 1953 , the first Combat Magnum was produced in late 1955. The Colts were on their I frame-Official Police-which is slight larger than S&W's K-frame, the S&W L-frame was introduced later to compete with the Colt Python and Trooper Mark III. The Colt Shooting Master was built on the New Service frame. The Colt Trooper in 38 Special was discontinued in 1961, the 357 was re-named the Trooper.

RoyceP · February 17, 2023, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSHR

The Colt Trooper (38 Special) and .357 were introduced in 1953 , the first Combat Magnum was produced in late 1955. The Colts were on their I frame-Official Police-which is slight larger than S&W's K-frame, the S&W L-frame was introduced later to compete with the Colt Python and Trooper Mark III. The Colt Shooting Master was built on the New Service frame. The Colt Trooper in 38 Special was discontinued in 1961, the 357 was re-named the Trooper.

True, and the Shooting Master 357 is a little smaller than a Smith N frame, so none of it is apples to apples. It was perhaps an example of marketing and S&W won at the end of the day. The Colt Shooting Master 357 is likely the perfect platform for full house 357 loads but it ultimately didn't sell all that well.

Dfariswheel · February 17, 2023, 08:07 PM

There are a number of Colt "Trooper" revolvers.

The original Trooper was built on the same frame later used to build the Python.
This was made in .22LR, and .38 Special with the "E" frame firing pin mounted on the hammer.

After 1961 it was made with the "I" frame firing pin inside the frame and was only available in .38 Special and .357 Magnum.
This version is often known as a "Poor man's Python" since the same frame and action was used for the Python. Other then the lugged and vented barrel and better tuned action, the original Trooper and Python are the same.

The next version was the Trooper Mark III. This is a totally different design nothing at all like the original Trooper.
It was made in .22LR, .22 Magnum, and .357 Magnum.
Although it's beautifully finished and an extremely strong revolver, it's not up to the Python level of fit and finish.

The last was the Trooper Mark V. It was only available in .357 Magnum.

The second issue Border Patrol was just the Trooper Mark III with a lesser polished blue or nickel finish.
Second Issue Border Patrolman was sold to the US Border Patrol and as a commercial sales model.
There were 5,356 made in blue, and 1,152 in bright nickel.
The only difference between the Trooper Mark II and Second Issue Border Patrol is the level of finish and usually lesser quality wood in the grips.

SIGSHR · February 17, 2023, 10:42 PM

The Colt Trooper Mark III was designed by Karl R. Lewes who also designed the commercial BAR and the Dan Wesson.

mpescatori · February 18, 2023, 04:19 AM

Ok, thank you.
I now understand that the fundamental difference between the Trooper and the Patrolman are finish and grips.
Perhaps a bit like some 1960s cars, where Pontiacs or Buicks were the same as some Chevrolet models, but with better upholstery and brightwork (chrome etc)

I also understand that the Trooper MkII is essentially a Python w/out the lugged and vented barrel, while the Trooper MkIII is an industrial downgrade from its predecessor.
(again, like some late '70s sedans compared to the late '60s predecessors)

So I'll be on the lookout for an older Trooper MkII.

Thank you.

Inviato dal mio GM1913 utilizzando Tapatalk

**4V50 Gary** · February 18, 2023, 11:22 AM

If you're talking about the original Colt Trooper like the unshrouded ejector rod shown by esteemed member Dfarishwheel, the lockwork is exactly the same as that of the Python. Note the location of the screw for the sideplate. It's further back than on the later incarnations of the Trooper. The later Troopers have a modernised action that functions much like the S&W revolver does. Being in Italy and if the price were the same, I'd go for the original Trooper.

BTW, I considered putting a Python barrel on a Trooper (older one) but then I noticed how the frame is cut down near where the barrel is. The Python's frame is more blocky so the line between the barrel and frame is uniterrupted. A Python barrel on an original Trooper would also need a block fitted to simulate the Python's look.

Bob Wright · February 18, 2023, 03:33 PM

Little know are the early S&W model numbers. But S&W did use Model numbers in the past, starting with the Model No. 1, No. 1 1/2, Model No. 2 etc. These designated frame size and were applied to the early tip-up revolvers. When the top break was introduced it was the No.3.

Te hand ejectors bore a letter/numerical designation. The letter designated frame size, while the nujmbers designated bore. The .44 Military bore the designation "N-430" and the .44 Target was "N-430-T" the T indicating target sights. This became too awkward as the N-430-T could be applied to a .44 Special or a .44 Magnum.

Thesesese were not used outside of the factory, however.

Bob Wright

Dfariswheel · February 18, 2023, 08:33 PM

Note that there is no such model as a "Trooper MK ll".

There's the original Trooper and the Trooper MK III.

The original Trooper has the same frame and action as the Python.
The Trooper MK III is a totally different design with almost nothing in common with the original Trooper or Python other then the Colt name.

February 16, 2023, 06:49 PM	#1
mpescatori Junior Member Join Date: January 17, 2020 Posts: 3	Which Colt? Hello all, Maurizio here from Rome, Italy. I currently own a 4"S&W66 (bought new in 1982) and an oldish 4" S&W 27 (or is it a 28? Highway Patrolman). I'm now looking for a Colt counterpart. Possibilities are the Border Patrolman, the (State?) Trooper and the Python, and should come with a 4" barrel for coherence. Used, as most Colts here are collector's items, not working guns. My question is... What's the difference between a Border Patrolman and a Trooper? Other than the heavy barrel shroud, any difference with the Python? It's awfully expensive... Thank you for shedding light on this. Inviato dal mio GM1913 utilizzando Tapatalk

February 18, 2023, 11:22 AM	#13
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	If you're talking about the original Colt Trooper like the unshrouded ejector rod shown by esteemed member Dfarishwheel, the lockwork is exactly the same as that of the Python. Note the location of the screw for the sideplate. It's further back than on the later incarnations of the Trooper. The later Troopers have a modernised action that functions much like the S&W revolver does. Being in Italy and if the price were the same, I'd go for the original Trooper. BTW, I considered putting a Python barrel on a Trooper (older one) but then I noticed how the frame is cut down near where the barrel is. The Python's frame is more blocky so the line between the barrel and frame is uniterrupted. A Python barrel on an original Trooper would also need a block fitted to simulate the Python's look. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

February 18, 2023, 03:33 PM	#14
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,987	Little know are the early S&W model numbers. But S&W did use Model numbers in the past, starting with the Model No. 1, No. 1 1/2, Model No. 2 etc. These designated frame size and were applied to the early tip-up revolvers. When the top break was introduced it was the No.3. Te hand ejectors bore a letter/numerical designation. The letter designated frame size, while the nujmbers designated bore. The .44 Military bore the designation "N-430" and the .44 Target was "N-430-T" the T indicating target sights. This became too awkward as the N-430-T could be applied to a .44 Special or a .44 Magnum. Thesesese were not used outside of the factory, however. Bob Wright __________________ Time spent at the reloading bench is an investment in contentment.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

February 16, 2023, 08:36 PM	#2
44caliberkid Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2017 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,097	The first issue Border Patrolman was in 1952, a 38 Special made in small numbers, less than 500, and was discontinued. There was a resurrection of the name in 1970 to 1975, when it was applied to a flat finished blued Colt Trooper. Similar to the S&W Model 27 (polished blue) and the Model 28 Highway Patrolman (flat or satin finished blue). So you had the highly polished Trooper and it’s flat finished twin brother, the Border Patrolman. I’ve heard on this forum that some of the Troopers had soft lock work parts and no replacement parts are available. However, I still like the Troopers, but I have never owned one. You might also consider a Colt Lawman in 357 mag. Troopers currently bring $800 -$1000, Lawman about the same, never saw a Border Patrolman for sale. The old Python was a completely different gun.

February 17, 2023, 07:26 PM	#8
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	The Colt Trooper (38 Special) and .357 were introduced in 1953 , the first Combat Magnum was produced in late 1955. The Colts were on their I frame-Official Police-which is slight larger than S&W's K-frame, the S&W L-frame was introduced later to compete with the Colt Python and Trooper Mark III. The Colt Shooting Master was built on the New Service frame. The Colt Trooper in 38 Special was discontinued in 1961, the 357 was re-named the Trooper.

February 17, 2023, 08:07 PM	#10
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	There are a number of Colt "Trooper" revolvers. The original Trooper was built on the same frame later used to build the Python. This was made in .22LR, and .38 Special with the "E" frame firing pin mounted on the hammer. After 1961 it was made with the "I" frame firing pin inside the frame and was only available in .38 Special and .357 Magnum. This version is often known as a "Poor man's Python" since the same frame and action was used for the Python. Other then the lugged and vented barrel and better tuned action, the original Trooper and Python are the same. The next version was the Trooper Mark III. This is a totally different design nothing at all like the original Trooper. It was made in .22LR, .22 Magnum, and .357 Magnum. Although it's beautifully finished and an extremely strong revolver, it's not up to the Python level of fit and finish. The last was the Trooper Mark V. It was only available in .357 Magnum. The second issue Border Patrol was just the Trooper Mark III with a lesser polished blue or nickel finish. Second Issue Border Patrolman was sold to the US Border Patrol and as a commercial sales model. There were 5,356 made in blue, and 1,152 in bright nickel. The only difference between the Trooper Mark II and Second Issue Border Patrol is the level of finish and usually lesser quality wood in the grips.

February 17, 2023, 10:42 PM	#11
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	The Colt Trooper Mark III was designed by Karl R. Lewes who also designed the commercial BAR and the Dan Wesson.

February 18, 2023, 04:19 AM	#12
mpescatori Junior Member Join Date: January 17, 2020 Posts: 3	Ok, thank you. I now understand that the fundamental difference between the Trooper and the Patrolman are finish and grips. Perhaps a bit like some 1960s cars, where Pontiacs or Buicks were the same as some Chevrolet models, but with better upholstery and brightwork (chrome etc) I also understand that the Trooper MkII is essentially a Python w/out the lugged and vented barrel, while the Trooper MkIII is an industrial downgrade from its predecessor. (again, like some late '70s sedans compared to the late '60s predecessors) So I'll be on the lookout for an older Trooper MkII. Thank you. Inviato dal mio GM1913 utilizzando Tapatalk

February 18, 2023, 08:33 PM	#15
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	Note that there is no such model as a "Trooper MK ll". There's the original Trooper and the Trooper MK III. The original Trooper has the same frame and action as the Python. The Trooper MK III is a totally different design with almost nothing in common with the original Trooper or Python other then the Colt name.