Can you safely fire .38 Super in a .357 Magnum?

Micropterus · October 17, 2009, 10:00 PM

Just curious. I was checking the rim/extractor contact on my Ruger GP-100 and decided to see if a .38 Super round would fit. Since it is semi-rimmed, I thought I'd give it try so I could see what I was looking for a bit better. Except for being a wee bit tight, the .38 Super rounds slid in nicely and the extractor easily engages the smaller rim.

I know the bullet diameter is slight smaller (.355 vs .357). And the case is a bit bigger in diameter. But otherwise, any reason (ie. pressure, etc) this would not work?

Micropterus · October 17, 2009, 10:49 PM

I'm not going to do it, I'm just curious. I've owned a .38 Super for nearly 20 years now and this the the first time I've ever checked to see if it would even chamber in a .357.

**JohnKSa** · October 17, 2009, 10:50 PM

SAAMI lists .38 Super pressure as being higher than that of the .357Mag.

Daryl · October 18, 2009, 08:49 AM

If you search the board a bit, you'll see that this one comes up fairly often for some reason.

"It fit's" isn't generally a good reason to try it, yet I see people wanting to do siimilar things pretty often.

Can it be done? Yep. Is it safe? I'd say one's life, limb, and/or eyesight is a tough gamble to find out.

Especially when .357 mag ammo is easier to find, and cheaper to shoot.

Daryl

Bill DeShivs · October 18, 2009, 04:34 PM

I'm not advising it, but it can be done. If one were to try it, they should use a very heavy duty gun like a Ruger Blackhawk.

glock199mm · October 18, 2009, 04:46 PM

try it at ur own risk i would never do it or recommend it

Deaf Smith · October 18, 2009, 05:48 PM

Quote:

I'm not advising it, but it can be done.

Me to Bill. And Daryl is right, .357 Magnum ammo is cheaper!

madmag · October 18, 2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

SAAMI lists .38 Super pressure as being higher than that of the .357Mag.

Interesting. I did not know until I took a look, but SAAMI also lists the 9mm +P pressure as even higher than .357 or .38 super.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

Micropterus · October 18, 2009, 06:05 PM

It lists the PSI of the .38 Super as higher than the .357. But it lists the CUP of the .38 Super as lower than the .357. I don't understand why. I would think if one were higher, the other would be higher, too. Anyone know the relationship between the two?

madmag · October 18, 2009, 06:23 PM

http://www.chuckhawks.com/pressure_measurement.htm

Hope this helps. I am learning also.

Quote:

Now suppose you see a pressure given in PSI for some hot new cartridge and want to relate that to the more familiar CUP in order to compare it to another cartridge or load measured by that method. As I mentioned earlier, these pressure measuring methods are not 100% accurate and, primarily for that reason, there does not exist an accepted formula for making this conversion.

I suppose that it would be reasonable to guess that, in general, if a cartridge has a published maximum average pressure in the 50,000 CUP range that the PSI equivalent will be considerably higher, generally in the 60,000 range. If the CUP specification is in the 40 to 45,000 range, there is a reasonable chance that the PSI specification may be nearly the same. And if the CUP number is lower than about 40,000 the PSI equivalent will probably be considerably less. Unfortunately, none of these generalizations are accurate or consistent enough to be meaningful to shooters, reloaders, or anyone else.

For reasons not yet understood there are numerous exceptions for individual cartridges. The measured CUP and PSI readings vary considerably from one cartridge to the next and are not consistently different. Remember that the earlier mentioned standards organizations now publish both CUP and PSI specifications, as determined from actual measurements, for all cartridges.

BTW, notice that the SAAMI spec. I posted in post #10 are all in PSI for the rounds we are discussing, so this should be apples to apples.

James K · October 18, 2009, 08:43 PM

OK, I don't recommend firing any cartridge except in a gun designed and marked for it, with some exceptions, like .38 Special in a .357.

So how about those pressures? The .38 Super +P is rated at 36,500 psi (on my chart) and the .357 at 35,000. I doubt very much that such a relatively small difference is going to cause any guns to explode in a mushroom cloud and wipe out whole cities. For one thing, the .357 proof load is around 45,500 psi, so even 36,500 comes nowhere near the pressures a .357 revolver is designed to withstand.

In fact, the .38 Super will fit in a .38 Special/.357 chamber only by virtue of overlapping tolerances. (Of five revolvers I tried, .38 Super fits in only one.)It was based on the .38 S&W case, which Browning originally used in his experiments. It was made longer but that will not prevent firing it in some of the old .38 S&W breaktops that don't have shoulders in the chambers, or in some old .38 Special revolvers designed for a 17,000 psi round. Those would be the areas of my concern, not firing it in a modern .357 Magnum revolver.

Another reason I would not use .38 Super/.38 ACP in a revolver without moon clips is that the small rim will almost always jump the extractor, hanging up the gun in a reload.

Jim

Superhouse 15 · October 18, 2009, 09:49 PM

Stuck on a desert island surrounded by zombies and only ammo available, sure. For plinking, no. I wouldn't risk it.

Old Grump · October 18, 2009, 10:47 PM

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/atta...4&d=1229518768

Please copy this link and save it. You can fire 38 auto in a 38 super, you can fire a 38 super in a 38 super, period, end of story, fini, nyet, no, don't do it.

Chesster · October 18, 2009, 10:54 PM

I don't recommend it, but, have done it as an experiment in an old model 28. Not a good practice but good info to know in an emergency.

Bill DeShivs · October 19, 2009, 12:56 AM

You can also fire 9mm largo in a .38 super.

GeauxTide · October 19, 2009, 11:05 AM

NO!

gyvel · November 1, 2009, 10:00 PM

Slightly OT, but what is the pressure difference between .38 Auto and .38 Super?

Old Grump · November 2, 2009, 01:55 PM

38 Automatic, PSI 26,500, CUP is 23,000
38 Super, PSI 36,500, CUP is 33,000

gyvel · November 2, 2009, 02:03 PM

Thank you, old grump.

skeeter · November 3, 2009, 03:31 AM

I would guess you could fire a 357mag in a 41 mag but I would NEVER do that anymore than I would fire a 38Super in a 357mag. Are 357mag's so difficult to get in your area?

Micropterus · November 3, 2009, 06:16 AM

It was an academic question, Skeeter. See my second post.

Magnum-41-madman · February 26, 2023, 12:42 PM

WOW everyone's an expert, but few know what they talk about, so here's my take on this 38 super in a 357 mag revolver !

It depends on one thing only, will the round fit the revolver period.

As for safety, nobody in their right mind would tell you to try this, UNLESS you know what your about. This means can you do simple things like re-barrel a 1911 or hand-load your own ammo.

You might take a moment to consider this, how many revolvers are now chambered for +P 9mm & are they any different from their 357 brothers.

I have & still run 38 Super in my Ruger GP100, why because I can, should you,
here's my take on that, your an adult.

HiBC · February 26, 2023, 01:53 PM

OP,you say you have owned a 38 Super for 20 years. If you have ammo for it,shoot it!!. It likely holds at least 9.. In an emergency? Grab your 38 Super handgun.

Which brings me to my main question . Why?

Is there any good reason?

Academic question? Can I eat Tide Pods? Just curious!!

We can waste a lot of time on hypothetical academic questions.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 26, 2023, 01:58 PM

This thread is almost 14 years old. The person who asked the question hasn't been here for ten years. There is no reason to dredge up a discussion this old.

Closed.

**44 AMP** · February 26, 2023, 02:06 PM

It's the age old question, CAN vs. SHOULD....just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do that thing...

like posting in a thread that went dormant over a dozen years ago......

October 17, 2009, 10:50 PM	#3
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,579	SAAMI lists .38 Super pressure as being higher than that of the .357Mag. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

October 18, 2009, 04:34 PM	#5
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,908	I'm not advising it, but it can be done. If one were to try it, they should use a very heavy duty gun like a Ruger Blackhawk. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

October 18, 2009, 10:47 PM	#13
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/atta...4&d=1229518768 Please copy this link and save it. You can fire 38 auto in a 38 super, you can fire a 38 super in a 38 super, period, end of story, fini, nyet, no, don't do it. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

October 18, 2009, 10:54 PM	#14
Chesster Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2007 Location: Dixie Posts: 2,538	I don't recommend it, but, have done it as an experiment in an old model 28. Not a good practice but good info to know in an emergency. __________________ Chesster Proud NDN "The American Idle" Vote 'Pro-Choice' on 2nd Amendment issues!!!

October 19, 2009, 12:56 AM	#15
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,908	You can also fire 9mm largo in a .38 super. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

October 17, 2009, 10:00 PM	#1
Micropterus Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2009 Location: Newport News, Virginia Posts: 306	Can you safely fire .38 Super in a .357 Magnum? Just curious. I was checking the rim/extractor contact on my Ruger GP-100 and decided to see if a .38 Super round would fit. Since it is semi-rimmed, I thought I'd give it try so I could see what I was looking for a bit better. Except for being a wee bit tight, the .38 Super rounds slid in nicely and the extractor easily engages the smaller rim. I know the bullet diameter is slight smaller (.355 vs .357). And the case is a bit bigger in diameter. But otherwise, any reason (ie. pressure, etc) this would not work?

October 17, 2009, 10:49 PM	#2
Micropterus Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2009 Location: Newport News, Virginia Posts: 306	I'm not going to do it, I'm just curious. I've owned a .38 Super for nearly 20 years now and this the the first time I've ever checked to see if it would even chamber in a .357.

October 18, 2009, 08:49 AM	#4
Daryl Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Posts: 2,350	If you search the board a bit, you'll see that this one comes up fairly often for some reason. "It fit's" isn't generally a good reason to try it, yet I see people wanting to do siimilar things pretty often. Can it be done? Yep. Is it safe? I'd say one's life, limb, and/or eyesight is a tough gamble to find out. Especially when .357 mag ammo is easier to find, and cheaper to shoot. Daryl

October 18, 2009, 04:46 PM	#6
glock199mm Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2007 Location: louisiana Posts: 227	try it at ur own risk i would never do it or recommend it

October 18, 2009, 06:05 PM	#9
Micropterus Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2009 Location: Newport News, Virginia Posts: 306	It lists the PSI of the .38 Super as higher than the .357. But it lists the CUP of the .38 Super as lower than the .357. I don't understand why. I would think if one were higher, the other would be higher, too. Anyone know the relationship between the two?

October 18, 2009, 08:43 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	OK, I don't recommend firing any cartridge except in a gun designed and marked for it, with some exceptions, like .38 Special in a .357. So how about those pressures? The .38 Super +P is rated at 36,500 psi (on my chart) and the .357 at 35,000. I doubt very much that such a relatively small difference is going to cause any guns to explode in a mushroom cloud and wipe out whole cities. For one thing, the .357 proof load is around 45,500 psi, so even 36,500 comes nowhere near the pressures a .357 revolver is designed to withstand. In fact, the .38 Super will fit in a .38 Special/.357 chamber only by virtue of overlapping tolerances. (Of five revolvers I tried, .38 Super fits in only one.)It was based on the .38 S&W case, which Browning originally used in his experiments. It was made longer but that will not prevent firing it in some of the old .38 S&W breaktops that don't have shoulders in the chambers, or in some old .38 Special revolvers designed for a 17,000 psi round. Those would be the areas of my concern, not firing it in a modern .357 Magnum revolver. Another reason I would not use .38 Super/.38 ACP in a revolver without moon clips is that the small rim will almost always jump the extractor, hanging up the gun in a reload. Jim

October 18, 2009, 09:49 PM	#12
Superhouse 15 Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2007 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 844	Stuck on a desert island surrounded by zombies and only ammo available, sure. For plinking, no. I wouldn't risk it.

October 19, 2009, 11:05 AM	#16
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,357	NO!

November 1, 2009, 10:00 PM	#17
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Slightly OT, but what is the pressure difference between .38 Auto and .38 Super?

November 2, 2009, 01:55 PM	#18
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	38 Automatic, PSI 26,500, CUP is 23,000 38 Super, PSI 36,500, CUP is 33,000 __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

November 2, 2009, 02:03 PM	#19
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Thank you, old grump.

November 3, 2009, 03:31 AM	#20
skeeter Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Posts: 883	I would guess you could fire a 357mag in a 41 mag but I would NEVER do that anymore than I would fire a 38Super in a 357mag. Are 357mag's so difficult to get in your area?

November 3, 2009, 06:16 AM	#21
Micropterus Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2009 Location: Newport News, Virginia Posts: 306	It was an academic question, Skeeter. See my second post.

February 26, 2023, 12:42 PM	#22
Magnum-41-madman Junior Member Join Date: March 14, 2022 Posts: 1	WOW everyone's an expert, but few know what they talk about, so here's my take on this 38 super in a 357 mag revolver ! It depends on one thing only, will the round fit the revolver period. As for safety, nobody in their right mind would tell you to try this, UNLESS you know what your about. This means can you do simple things like re-barrel a 1911 or hand-load your own ammo. You might take a moment to consider this, how many revolvers are now chambered for +P 9mm & are they any different from their 357 brothers. I have & still run 38 Super in my Ruger GP100, why because I can, should you, here's my take on that, your an adult.

February 26, 2023, 01:53 PM	#23
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,102	OP,you say you have owned a 38 Super for 20 years. If you have ammo for it,shoot it!!. It likely holds at least 9.. In an emergency? Grab your 38 Super handgun. Which brings me to my main question . Why? Is there any good reason? Academic question? Can I eat Tide Pods? Just curious!! We can waste a lot of time on hypothetical academic questions.

February 26, 2023, 01:58 PM	#24
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 17,928	This thread is almost 14 years old. The person who asked the question hasn't been here for ten years. There is no reason to dredge up a discussion this old. Closed. __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

February 26, 2023, 02:06 PM	#25
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 27,177	welcome to TFL It's the age old question, CAN vs. SHOULD....just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do that thing... like posting in a thread that went dormant over a dozen years ago...... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

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