The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 5, 2020, 01:36 PM   #1
riffraff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2016
Posts: 629
AK choice, C39V2 or PSA ?

I've bounced around with getting an AK a few times, usually am frustrated by the price versus quality and was happy enough with a mini 30 as the US made equivalent..

I'm revisiting the topic. I want something a step up from the run of the mill wasr, want a milled reciever, maybe if availability was better and I was more committed to the platform I'd go w/ a SAM7, instead I'm looking at a milled reciever PSA or a C39V2 model - both basically US made mid level replicas I think..

Anyone have an opinion on the choices in there? Would be open to other brands but would like a < $1000 price point, not some real low production thing I gotta chase around for months, and something that has a high probability of being reliable out of the box and over time...

Other practical considerations, it may get a red dot, and I am a little concerned about length of pull (I like short, 2nd or 3rd hole on an AR usually) so may look for something out of the box that's collapsible. Thx !
riffraff is offline  
Old March 5, 2020, 01:46 PM   #2
MC 1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 218
WASR is a step up on both of those. Milled is not much better then stamped just heavier. Look at Atlantic for their offerings. RH 10 is a good buy and better then what you have listed as well.
MC 1911 is offline  
Old March 5, 2020, 03:00 PM   #3
riffraff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2016
Posts: 629
That's interesting, of the half dozen reviews I've read they all put a WASR at the bottom of the barrel (and they are also cheaper) - citing various quality problems including poorly aligned sites.

Will checkout the RH, but do want a milled reciever. I know practically it's not much, just dislike the idea of it.
riffraff is offline  
Old March 5, 2020, 04:07 PM   #4
Fishbed77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 4,719
Quote:
That's interesting, of the half dozen reviews I've read they all put a WASR at the bottom of the barrel (and they are also cheaper) - citing various quality problems including poorly aligned sites.
Years ago, that was an issue. Today, the quality of WASRs is much higher, and I would choose one over any US-made AK.
Fishbed77 is offline  
Old March 5, 2020, 05:33 PM   #5
riffraff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2016
Posts: 629
I'm pretty skeptical, almost ordered one last year and even my LGS was talking about some percentage of them coming with canted sights.. and rivets on a reciever, man gotta think about that.. but say I took a WASR 10 underfolder and wanted to swap out the wood and end up with a rail on top for a dot - is it a simple furniture change? Thx
riffraff is offline  
Old March 5, 2020, 06:53 PM   #6
MC 1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 218
Wasr's aren't milled either. Look for an older SLR 95 or a milled MAK 90 either should be under 1K unconverted. I would never buy something built by Century to much risk. Imported stuff no problem.

If you want bad reviews look at the C39 & RAS 47!!
MC 1911 is offline  
Old March 5, 2020, 07:29 PM   #7
riffraff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2016
Posts: 629
That's what I was speaking of on the WASRs, a stamped reciever. But maybe I will compromise on that.

Yes century I would never normally consider except in reading reviews they come recommended, but all AKs seem to be pieces of garbage when you look at forum reports.

Did notice the same stamped reciever on the RH, but seemed to have some quality touches, ie cold hammer forged chrome lined barrel, which is neat, and price on those is very reasonable..

Also surprising a PSA would be that bad, same company builds a zillion cheap good working ARs - you would think AKs would be right up their alley.

I don't buy used guns unless its basically new and something I know is well supported (ie a Ruger, Sig, S&W where worst scenario I pay for a factory repair but usually it's free and easy). I want to order something new in the box.

This is kinda what steers me away from AKs, isn't as simple as just buying a decent US made gun. But I'd still like one, I guess in some sense maybe it would be better to pay a little less if they all are relatively questionable.
riffraff is offline  
Old March 5, 2020, 07:43 PM   #8
44caliberkid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2017
Location: Iowa
Posts: 405
I have a Zastava N PAP that I'm pretty happy with. It comes with a rail on the side of the receiver for optics and I have a Midwest Industries QD scope mount that is the boss. But last week I was looking at new Century WASR's at a gun show and they looked pretty nice. I would be leary of buying any AK sight unseen, like ordering one. Better to be able to examine the one you're buying in person. The shows seem pretty flush with AK's right now.
44caliberkid is online now  
Old March 5, 2020, 07:51 PM   #9
MC 1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 218
AK's in general are very reliable. There are exceptions & a few builders to avoid. Atlantic has different models and their customer service is supposed to be excellent.

I would much rather buy an old AK then anything US made and have been for years. AK Files and AK Forum both have people that know these guns inside & out you just need to wade thru the BS sometimes.

Since you are new with the AK I would advise you to research,ask questions and listen to those that have been there LOL!
MC 1911 is offline  
Old March 5, 2020, 09:58 PM   #10
riffraff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2016
Posts: 629
I'm going to do some more research, but always liked the idea of a WASR 10 underfolder.

Would I be going far wrong in that direction for $750 to $800?
riffraff is offline  
Old March 6, 2020, 01:19 AM   #11
MJFlores
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2013
Posts: 536
A WASR is a good rifle, but nothing fancy and poor fitting. Sloppy and that's why they're cheap. You need to look at how the rifle enters our country and is finished for sale here. Most WASRs are imported by Century...and that's where the problem begins. Don't buy anything by Century...it's all junk. Anyone who says otherwise just doesn't shoot enough or know what an AK is supposed to be.
An AK rifle is not a cheap, sloppy rifle that groups 6 MOA. Thats what you see here for $399 but thats not the AK. If you want a quality rifle, look at Russian, Bulgarian, and Polish rifles. The three are excellent rifles with proper fitting and machining. You will notice the difference if you compared the big three to the rest. Dont be afraid to spend a little more and get a proper AK rifle because the enjoyment will negate the initial investment. Arsenal rifles from Bulgaria are some of the best, and can be had for not much more than the junk. And then there's PSA. They are quickly becoming a great AK resource. Their AKE is really opening eyes from a durability, build and accuracy stand point. It's clear PSA is trying to build a high quality AK rifle which I think is awesome! They're always out of stock for a reason...they're great rifles. Hopefully this helps. And hopefully you decide on and purchase a quality AK that represents what an AK is all about...quality, durability, and accuracy you'll fall in love with.
MJFlores is offline  
Old March 6, 2020, 07:54 AM   #12
jetinteriorguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2013
Posts: 1,282
Don’t count out an older MAC90. Even though they are stamped, they use heavier gauge steel for the receivers and are excellent rifles. I’ve had mine for around 35 years and wouldn’t trade or sell it for anything.
jetinteriorguy is offline  
Old March 6, 2020, 08:55 AM   #13
MC 1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 218
So much wrong with that post above. Stuff imported by Century is just that imported. They did not build it so it's usually good to go. Year's ago the WASR was considered the bottom of the barrel. Times change.

There are no Russian AK's being imported. The Polish stuff is another story altogether. There are no 399.00 AK's. Arsenal does make a nice AK but it will cost more. I've been buy & collecting AK's for years & pretty sure I know what I'm talking about!

As for the WASR Uf I would suggest you hold one if you haven't. UF's are nice but they are not for everyone & at that price I would spend a little more and consider the Arsenal.

If you want an AK stay with factory built & imported if possible. For what you want it sounds like a WASR would do fine.
MC 1911 is offline  
Old March 6, 2020, 09:05 AM   #14
highpower3006
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2011
Location: Reno NV
Posts: 1,000
I have owned a couple dozen AK's of various types and manufacturers and still have ten of them so I have a certain amount of personal experience. They have ranged from rare and expensive like a Valment M62S to more common versions like a WASR.

DON'T buy a CV39, the metal in the receivers is soft and within a couple thousand rounds it will develop headspace issues. So afar in actual testing the PSA AK's have held up, so they are certainly a viable option. However in the current state of the AK market, a WASR is going to be your best bet for a genuine European AK if you are only looking to buy new.

Used there are many choices and as with any gun you may be looking at, you need to do your homework and be knowledgeable about possible issues. Out of all my AK's I have only purchased one new, all the others I found on the used market and none have had any issues.

In my experience, milled receiver AK's are smoother that stamped versions, but both work the same and for the money a decent stamped receiver AK is going to work just fine unless it is a Century made rifle. Do yourself a favor and avoid them like the plague.

The exception to the above statement is the Century Yugo M70AB2 and M70AB2T rifles. they were made under contract for Century and they are well made with a Nodak receiver. I have a "T" version that I have been beating the heck out of for the last six years and it has been a sold rifle in all respects.

+1 on a MAK90 if you can get one at a decent price, the Chinese AK's imported into the US are robust rifles, but do be aware that on the stamped versions there are both straight and slant cut receivers and the one you want has a straight cut.

Personally I would stay away from a kit build unless it is from a known builder with a solid reputation like Two Rivers.
highpower3006 is offline  
Old March 6, 2020, 10:57 AM   #15
riffraff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2016
Posts: 629
Thanks again guys..

I definitely do not care where is made, not buying one to have a correct sample for a collection, I just want one that works well and isn't going to rattle itself to hell in 5000 rounds.

Lots of info here. Does anyone know the major difference in PSA AKE versus their AK? Only thing I see immediately is a chrome lined barrel upgrade on the AKE. I did sign up for notifications on all models, but all are sold out.

If the standard PSA stuff was ok they are easy to obtain at the moment, priced about the same as all zillion other sorts of AKs around the $750 mark.

Am searching around for availability on the standard model sort of Arsenal AKs too, slim availability if any, but as mentioned you do see them for around 1k.
riffraff is offline  
Old March 6, 2020, 12:33 PM   #16
MC 1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 218
If you haven't done it,check out Rob at AKOU & the test he's doing on the PSA. One of the better sites & he will put an AK thru things most owners won't.
MC 1911 is offline  
Old March 6, 2020, 01:39 PM   #17
highpower3006
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2011
Location: Reno NV
Posts: 1,000
+1 on checking out AKOU for unbiased durability tests on rifles. Rob definitely puts them through their paces and if there are any weak points he will find them. PSA AK's passed the test as did several others including the WASR and Arsenals.

I wholeheartedly recommend that you try to test out a few different configurations before you buy. As as been mentioned underfolders are not for everyone. BUT, remember that they were not designed as target rifles and how they shoot off the bench should not be the only consideration in deciding on which one to get. Underfolders were designed for tank crews and other specialty troops for those fighting from more confined spaces.

One of my favorite AK's among my current collection is a M92 PAP SBR with a underfolding stock. It is load, brash and is generally as accurate as any of my other AK's. Hands, down the smoothest and most accurate is my Type 3, 1958 dated Polish Kbk-N which is complete including it's original functioning night vision scope.
highpower3006 is offline  
Old March 6, 2020, 02:21 PM   #18
MC 1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 218
M92 makes a great SBR! Mine is one of my favorites.
MC 1911 is offline  
Old March 6, 2020, 04:34 PM   #19
MJFlores
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2013
Posts: 536
You do realize that NO AK is imported into this country in the form in which you buy it right? By law they have to be imported as parts and assembled here. Century is a slop house and builds crap rifles. Thats why they cost $400. Yes, there are plenty of Russian Rifles to be had here in our country. It was only about a year and a half when sanctions stopped their import. So...there was nothing at all wrong with the post above.
MJFlores is offline  
Old March 6, 2020, 07:08 PM   #20
highpower3006
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2011
Location: Reno NV
Posts: 1,000
I would advise you to enter the present day, as the days of $400 imported AK's are long gone, I defy you to find a link to a new imported AK for that kind of money. You won't be able to, because there aren't any. I just got done with an internet search and any imported AK is running at about $700++.

It is very true that they are imported without furniture and the mag well has to be opened up. And while those that I have seen lately have so-so furniture, it is easily fixed with a set of surplus wood. However, Century seems to have gotten their act together and the mag wells have been pretty decent. Even the Century RAK triggers are not bad at all.

And you can poo-poo WASR's all you want but they are solid guns that hold up very well, even under full auto use.
highpower3006 is offline  
Old March 6, 2020, 08:24 PM   #21
MC 1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 218
Veper's & Saiga's maybe if converted.There are no new Russian AK's unless kit builds that I know of. You may find some very early imports like my TIGR (not an AK) but that's not what he's looking for.

I don't consider adding furniture or opening a magwell if needed as "building" a gun.

Last edited by MC 1911; March 7, 2020 at 12:39 PM.
MC 1911 is offline  
Old March 6, 2020, 10:48 PM   #22
riffraff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2016
Posts: 629
Any reccomendations for models to look into? Thx
riffraff is offline  
Old March 7, 2020, 07:03 AM   #23
MC 1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 218
Your criteria narrows the field considerably. Wasr, the M70AB2 &2T are also good choices if you can find them. PSA because you want new. The WPA Polish & RH10 at Atlantic as well.

Arsenal if you want to go a little higher but their cs is questionable apparently. Seriously check out AKOU lots of good info & he will answer questions if you have any.
MC 1911 is offline  
Old March 7, 2020, 07:10 AM   #24
highpower3006
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2011
Location: Reno NV
Posts: 1,000
There are many choices out there, but wanting something new is going to limit your options. MC 1911 is right on the money as far as new goes, but I would urge you to expand your search to include previously owned guns as you can still find deals out there if you look around.

I have bought several MAK90's for $700 or less and I still see the odd Saiga for less than a grand. Recently there was a nice WASR for sale here locally for $550 that I passed on only because I just spent a ton of money buying a surplus GI Sig M17, an IMI Uzi and a GI M9 Beretta and a very nice 1944 Spreewerk P38.
highpower3006 is offline  
Old March 7, 2020, 11:44 AM   #25
riffraff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2016
Posts: 629
Thanks guys, am checking out akou.

If I could edit the title I would but am going to write off century built stuff entirely.

I don't see a milled reciever option in my budget, very well might spring for a milled Arsenal if they were attainable but production is so low with those guys, it seems you basically gotta buy them the instant they become attainable at full retail or more. Excepting special models that cost > 2k. Just not much value for your $$ with them given the business model - although they may be among the best.

I'll take a scan through armslist, but part of the trouble is I just don't know AKs - could potentially find a reccomended model but could easily not detect abnormal assembly or wear & tear, no feel for them whatsoever. And unlike some other guns, my understanding is often with AKs there is not a company there to sort out the problems (like if you bought a lemon mini 30, where Ruger is going to give you a reasonable path to restore good operation).

Review on PSA seems to be good and it sounds like they even took up reccomendations for improvement, but haven't been through everything that's there yet.
riffraff is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08870 seconds with 8 queries