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March 10, 2018, 11:50 AM | #26 |
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Parkland Shooting Time Line Lesson Learned
Thank you for posting the facts, as well as the direction on comments. I see lots to improve in the communications area. The operation of multiple 911 systems impacted response time and command and control response significantly. Radio equipment not in good order, not able to share channels and the school system radios were totally independent. No one on site really had any idea of who what why when where and how was happening in real time. Hopefully all efforts will be focused not on arming the school and creating multiple hard points and scapegoating as many as possible. There should be an investment in the infrastructure so that there are not so many independent underfunded poorly designed communication entities. Active Shooter Training, 911, Radios, Phones, CCTV, Texting, and Social Media as starters need to fully integrated and shared with all agencies. The school, district, community, city, county, region, elected officials, professionals, law enforcement, state, and federal need to look at this and support it so that this does not happen again. The solution is in seeing what failed to work as planned and it needs to be balanced with our rights as Americans as guaranteed by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. This is not about a blame game. It is about learning what went wrong and what needs to be done to prevent in the future. Perhaps the Uber Driver needed to know the the actual Shooter was unstable and that Uber needs to be held responsible for allowing the Shooter to arrive with his arsenal of destruction.
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March 10, 2018, 01:04 PM | #27 |
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Great points. A relatively inexpensive wireless camera system inside the school that was tied to a competent school assigned LEO’s phone would have helped.
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March 10, 2018, 01:30 PM | #28 | ||
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We only have about 100,000 schools in the US. How much could retrofitting cost?
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March 10, 2018, 01:40 PM | #29 |
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Doublw Naught Spy
I read T Clark.s last thought as provocatively sarcastic....in context of his sound advice to find all the failure points and improve the infrastructure, plans, and training |
March 10, 2018, 02:31 PM | #30 |
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Sounds more like incompetence than anything else. How much training do the officers have to deal this type of events, what preplanning does the police department have in place.
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March 10, 2018, 03:23 PM | #31 |
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IN Broward county apparently not a well designed or trained plan...but this is pure speculation and Monday QB
I know my Local sheriff and Police chief... I a long time ago after Columbine and other active shooter incidents in schools just casually asked.... Tax payer and kids long out of school...If I could see the written plan and review it from a been there done that perspective.... This was not some internet question where either man had some notion the request was from a loony wanting to see the system... to game it They both got quite defensive and denied my simple request I know I could force them some how but decided to drop it... These more and more frequent (seemingly ) event make me want to press a bit harder I think from all events there are MANY Lessons to be learned.... Why we did After Action Reports (AAR) and meetings after every Mock City Exercise.... I am not the guy who would get on face book and spout off about how the local plan is worthless... I AM the kind of guy who would read and re-read the plan and make margin notations and discuss my concerns with the PD chief and Sheriff I am very retired and no kids in the schools... so too easy to plant head in sand.... I am also not a crusade type.... but in the Army had zero fear of letting my Uppers know what I thought and why... usually as diplomatically as possible but did manage to PO more than a few Officers who were being stubborn and stupid.... fortunately my been there done that seniority with credibility won the day...even with Butt hurt officers I do not personally think a lock down paranoia stance for ever school is necessary... but a good proactive active AGGRESSOR....gun, knife, bat, hammer, bomb plan is imperative |
March 10, 2018, 05:32 PM | #32 | ||
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Last edited by Aguila Blanca; March 10, 2018 at 05:44 PM. |
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March 10, 2018, 05:40 PM | #33 | |
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Last edited by Aguila Blanca; March 10, 2018 at 10:17 PM. |
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March 10, 2018, 08:35 PM | #34 |
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Fredvon4: I was actually serious that Uber has some responsibility in allowing people with guns to get in to the cars. I posted provocatively it is true because I am tired of listening to solutions from haters of guns and haters of haters of guns. If we are really serious about trying to protect everyone from every possibility, then a company like Uber has to share in the issue. The shooter had a lot of ammo with him when he took the car. We know that the shooter had lots of issues. If we are serious about gun registration and catching the mentally ill with gun registration then we should do the same with those using the internet to get a ride to someplace to do something evil. I think we need to not blame but look and seek answers. If mentally ill people are tagged electronically and not allowed to buy guns, they should not be allowed to use the Internet either, in my mind. We have the technology to do this right. Quit blaming and start looking at the good science in the timeline. If Uber had declined to transport the driver then this would not have happened. It is time for the NRA and others who are involved in banning guns and promoting firearms in schools and what not then it is time to demand that responsible folks sit down and look at the steps that could have been taken to prevent this from happening. The focus is on all the wrong parts.
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March 10, 2018, 10:18 PM | #35 |
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I believe the gun and magazines were in a duffel bag. Do you expect Uber drivers to carry portable X-ray machines so they can conduct TSA scans on prospective passengers?
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March 10, 2018, 10:46 PM | #36 |
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Uber has no responsibility here I don’t think.
But since they don’t want 19yo people to own guns, maybe they’re not old Enough to take ride service. As far as the police response goes: I don’t even know what to think anymore. I feel the sheriffs response must have been wrong, even if it was done by the book. The system we had in place, the trillions spent so these things won’t happen... all failed us |
March 11, 2018, 09:12 AM | #37 |
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Aquila, I believe that what needs to come out of the Parkland Active Shooter investigation is a broader understanding of the solutions that need to be explored to better deal with Active Shooters in the future. Everything I have seen on this so far is narrow and not inclusive of all the factors apparent in the timeline. Uber is obvious as it is the first link in the chain. I am an ardent supporter of the Second Amendment. The leadership in this debate needs to be directed to communications including social media, which includes Uber. Our legislators, community leaders, Law Enforcement, communications infrastructure builders, 911 systems designers, handheld communications makers like Motorola all need to be included in the discussion and solutions. The time line tells us what links need to be corrected.
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March 11, 2018, 09:18 AM | #38 |
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Parkland Shooting Time Line
Aquila, to be direct there are wands available that would have disclosed the guns and ammunition in the duffel bag. These are not regulated and not as costly as a Glock 19. The training is easy and with the proper notification would have disclosed this threat much earlier. These handheld units can be very effective.
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March 11, 2018, 10:21 AM | #39 | ||
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So the wand pings -- what authority does the Uber driver have to do anything? We all love the TSA, don't we? If Uber drivers start going all TSA agent on us, they'll just drive business to Lyte or back to regular taxis. If they do happen to get a shooter on his/her way to a school, trying to do anything is just asking to get an Uber driver added to the victim count. IMHO, asking Uber drivers to start screening passengers is several orders of magnitude dumber than arming teachers (which I support) |
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March 11, 2018, 10:46 AM | #40 | |||
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March 11, 2018, 12:24 PM | #41 | |
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These are rhetorical questions. Uber's role is off-topic for this thread, as it's unrelated to law enforcement's handling of the shootings and to the timeline linked in the OP, so let's leave it there, please.
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March 13, 2018, 10:45 AM | #42 | |
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AFAIK it's been a matter of decades since this type of construction was allowed in most places, and most newer schools do not have such doors; only grandfathered installations do. I suppose there are valid arguments for installing impenetrable partitions solely for security reasons, but there are also valid counter-arguments:
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March 13, 2018, 11:08 AM | #43 | |
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March 13, 2018, 11:21 AM | #44 |
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Uber. A company that exists by skirting and very technical readings of ways around laws requiring taxi licensing in several cities and states and has devalued that once valuable commodity (licensing) by showing one can sneak around the laws through a very technical reading of it is now going to start enforcing some standards? Really? Each one of their "independent operators" is going to be given even more specific criteria to follow? That risks them becoming employees and not independent contractors which risks the entire Uber business model. Allowing Uber to enforce the law is a troublesome concept to me.
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March 13, 2018, 11:22 AM | #45 |
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The blame lies purely in the shooter, and the system we have in place to prevent this.
The response was the response, good or bad, that does need to be re-evaluated. The response didn’t work, but on the surface it is irrelevant IN MY OPINION, the shooter shouldn’t have gotten a gun based on the rules we have. He was a candidate for firearms denial. They will probably strengthen the mental health aspect of gun control. I also predict that it will get abused. |
March 13, 2018, 11:59 AM | #46 | |
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It's probably the latter that could have offered the avenue to disarming him ... IF the sheriff's office had followed up on the myriad of reports that the kid was a menace in the making. But, even if the sheriff's office had followed up, due process still applies and we can't know how that process might have played out since it was never initiated. |
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March 13, 2018, 12:03 PM | #47 | |
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March 13, 2018, 02:55 PM | #48 |
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I’m thinking that it would be difficult for someone to be disarmed in this situation without trampling on the rights of others. To me, he was obviously mentally Ill before hand and should have been diagnosed as such.
He was reported to the authorities for threatening this. I bet if I called and reported that I had some unsavory dirt on the president from 20 years ago, an agent would be over to talk to me pretty quickly. It’s not going to be an easy solution. Either increase security in schools or take all the guns away. The first solution will cost school districts millions the second will cost the Feds. Basically, someone won’t feel so free if we solve the problem. Children will feel like they are in prison, or gun owners will loose the guns. Don’t think we’ve seen the end of gun control. It may take another 100 years, but the US will be AR free. People my age weren’t indoctrinated to hate the conservative viewpoint; today the kids are being exposed to progressive political rants that go on for hours... all the way through college. My kids and some others have recorded what’s going on in the schools I’ve heard it. They are going to march in the streets, they will be voting next. Just over a year ago, they rioted against conservative values. I know we can’t touch partisan politics on this page, but gun rights is a partisan issue. In the end, progressive ideas (some are good, some aren’t) will win out. Gun ownership is not a progressive idea. |
March 13, 2018, 04:08 PM | #49 | |
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March 13, 2018, 04:23 PM | #50 |
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Yes, I don’t think the bill of rights should be divided along party lines.
There are failures, the incident should not have happened. It shouldn’t be easy to get into a school with a gun. In the event it does happen, the police response should be swift and decisive. I don’t know if the officers responded like they should have, doesn’t matter if they followed whatever rules they were supposed to follow or not; whatever they did was wrong. The most disappointing thing is that there was an officer on scene. Last edited by rickyrick; March 13, 2018 at 10:13 PM. |
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