Trigger pull/Trigger Control: Controlled Press or Hard Prep?

[WVsig]

So I took a training course this weekend and we talked a lot about Trigger Control and Trigger Management. A lot of the info boiled down to how you reset the trigger. So many people talk about reset of a particular gun. The fact it is long or short. Distinct or mushy etc... but they don't go into detail about how they use it or how they manage it. Even more to the point don't talk a lot about why they prefer one guns reset over another in direct relationship to how they shoot.

We were introduced to 2 different methods and I will do my best to describe the 2 methods.

Controlled Press:

The shooter fires the gun and then pins the trigger to the rear, realign the sights, and then release the trigger until they feel a distinct click or the reset point of the trigger. As the gun is cycling and you feel/hear the click of the reset. Once you feel that click you get "back on" the trigger and fire the next shot. For some the finger comes up off the trigger for others it stays on. To me it makes more sense for the finger to never leave the trigger. I will refer to this as a controlled press. Some describe it as a "slap". I believe others might refer to it as a "jerk" vs a "slap". The use of the term slap or jerk is not being used as a negative here. Either way the shooter is pinning the trigger to the rear releasing it to the point of reset and then pressing, slapping, jerking the trigger and pinning it to the rear and then rinsing and repeating.

Hard Prep:

The shooter fires the gun and basically is getting off and then right back on the sear without letting your finger leave the trigger. You reset the trigger quickly during the recoil stroke. This is not trying to find that magic reset point each gun has but instead allowing the gun to its full reset point and then while the gun is still recoiling taking up the slack and prepping the trigger for the next shot. As the gun is cycling you are taking up the slack and applying pressure to the trigger. Once the gun has cycled you break the next shot.

So when attempting to shoot a continuity of fire situation like gun games or a self defense scenario where fast accurate hits are essential which method of trigger control do you use and why?

[TailGator]

I was taught what you describe as the controlled press, and still use it. The reason given to me was that the pistol moved less between shots with that method. I cannot honestly say that I have challenged or experimented in that regard, but it makes sense to me intuitively.

[WVsig]

I do find it interesting how much people talk about the reset of a particular guns trigger but have no thoughts on how it applies to usage in terms of trigger control.

TailGator thanks for the response.

Originally Posted by TailGator

I was taught what you describe as the controlled press, and still use it. The reason given to me was that the pistol moved less between shots with that method. I cannot honestly say that I have challenged or experimented in that regard, but it makes sense to me intuitively.

With the controlled press I do not thing the gun necessarily moves more or less than with a hard prep. With both methods the recoil should be absorbed in the same manner and the shooter should be on the front sight ASAP.

I can understand that if you are not utilizing one of these 2 methods there might be some movement.

[tangolima]

It depends what kind of guns you are shooting. I think we are talking about handguns here, so I leave out rifles.

For revolver in DA, it is pretty clear. You don't reset, or control press, the trigger. If you don't totally let go the trigger and start over after each shot, the gun won't work right.

So the discussion is mostly on semi autos.

Hammer fire DAO works almost like a revolver. The reset point is long. There is little difference between the two methods. I may just shoot it as a DA revolver.

SAO mostly has short reset point. I like resetting, control pressing, the trigger. I can shoot way faster this way, and more accurately. The motion is more continuous. The same principle applies to DA/SA after the first shot.

Striker fire DAO is interesting. At least some models, such as glock, shoot like SA if you reset, control press, the trigger after the first shot. So it is my method.

To summarize, I reset, or control press, the trigger whenever the gun allows me to. I shoot better and faster that way.

-TL

[WVsig]

Yes I am referring to handguns.

It depends what kind of guns you are shooting. I think we are talking about handguns here, so I leave out rifles.

For revolver in DA, it is pretty clear. You don't reset, or control press, the trigger. If you don't totally let go the trigger and start over after each shot, the gun won't work right.

So the discussion is mostly on semi autos.

Hammer fire DAO works almost like a revolver. The reset point is long. There is little difference between the two methods. I may just shoot it as a DA revolver.

SAO mostly has short reset point. I like resetting, control pressing, the trigger. I can shoot way faster this way, and more accurately. The motion is more continuous. The same principle applies to DA/SA after the first shot.

Striker fire DAO is interesting. At least some models, such as glock, shoot like SA if you reset, control press, the trigger after the first shot. So it is my method.

To summarize, I reset, or control press, the trigger whenever the gun allows me to. I shoot better and faster that way.

When are you starting to apply pressure to the trigger? Once it is fully reset and is the slide still in motion?

[tangolima]

Sight alignment is king. Fire the shot, keeping sights aligned. Keep trigger back as follow through. Realign sights on target, and start releasing trigger. Stop as soon as it resets. Start applying pressure when ready to fire. Maintain sight alignment and focus on front while doing all that.

I prefer aligning sight before resetting trigger as safety measure. The trigger is disconnected from the sear when held back.

-TL

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by tangolima

Sight alignment is king. Fire the shot, keeping sights aligned....

Actual it's not. What's king is trigger control. Trigger control, a steady press straight back on the trigger until the gun fires -- a surprise break, is what keeps the sights aligned. If one can't manage a good trigger press the sights will not be on the target when the shot breaks.

As far as the reset goes, either technique can work if you practice it consistently enough to be able to do it when shooting as fast as you need to. Let the trigger up only as far as necessary to reset can significantly help accuracy. Letting the trigger all the way forward assures reset, especially when shooting strings of shoots quickly.

But either way, the first order of business is a good compressed surprise break so the breaking of the shot doesn't disturb sight alignment.

[JohnKSa]

When are you starting to apply pressure to the trigger? Once it is fully reset and is the slide still in motion?

The numbers I've seen indicate that the slide on a relatively slow-cycling autopistol will have completed its cycle within 0.055 seconds of the shot breaking.

I've not seen any good evidence indicating that there are shooters (even the best shooters using the best equipment) who are capable of completing a trigger cycle (an intentional release & pull--not using bumpfiring techniques) faster than about 0.08 seconds. Typical splits for very good shooters are in the neighborhood of 0.1 seconds--nearly twice as long as it takes the slide to cycle.

I know that there are shooters out there who swear they are waiting on the slide to finish cycling but I can't reconcile that claim with the data on slide cycle times.

I do agree that the shooter can make constructive use of the time while the slide is cycling--I haven't seen evidence that shooters are capable of releasing the trigger and actually beginning a new pull before the slide stops moving--let alone completing the pull during that timeframe.

[WVsig]

Maybe this is better explain the two techniques.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPMJsbNACbg

[Ruark]

If we're talking about self defense, this whole discussion is moot. Under the crushing, paralyzing, suffocating stress of a face to face, life and death, split-second self defense confrontation, you will have utterly no awareness of your trigger pull.

[WVsig]

If we're talking about self defense, this whole discussion is moot. Under the crushing, paralyzing, suffocating stress of a face to face, life and death, split-second self defense confrontation, you will have utterly no awareness of your trigger pull

Then why bother to train at all? Just because you are not aware of the trigger pull does not mean you are not using skills and techniques to have trained?

When the shot timer goes off are you still " aware" of your draw or does it just happen? Do you think about it or does the gun naturally get to the high ready and push out to extension?

You see people say this all the time and IMHO it completely misses the point. Yes under stress your "awareness" will be deminished but it does not mean your technique goes out of the window. I have talked to people who have been in fire fights and yes lots of people loose their "awearness" others find the action slows down in an almost like a Guy Richie action movie sequence where they are keenly aware of everything happening.

I am not saying that will be be but having solid trigger control by training a particulate method IMHO gives me a better shot then saying I will be a unaware tub of goo.... YMMV

[Deaf Smith]

Compressed surprise break every time.

Deaf

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by Ruark

If we're talking about self defense, ... you will have utterly no awareness of your trigger pull.

Which is why it's important to train enough so that proper trigger control is reflexive.

Originally Posted by WVsig

Then why bother to train at all? Just because you are not aware of the trigger pull does not mean you are not using skills and techniques to have trained?...

If you have trained properly you will be using your reflexive skills and techniques without conscious thought. And you can achieve a:

Originally Posted by Deaf Smith

Compressed surprise break every time

[JohnKSa]

Practicing gives you a chance of performing the way you train although there's no guarantee.

Not practicing pretty much guarantees that you won't perform properly.

[Bultaco]

I just shot a pistol (action type) match yesterday and I can't say that I was ever aware of feeling the reset with either my 1911 or my M&P (apex trigger) during any of the shooting. With recoil sensation, noise and target acquiring all going on at almost the same time I did not and generally don't feel or hear a trigger reset. By the time my gun finishes the recoil cycle I see the sights and am either moving to the next target or prepping the trigger for the next shot on the same (paper) target. Even doing a quick pair (hammer to some) I am just applying pressure fast as soon as the gun is level. (Slap?)
In situations where we have a long (20+ yd.) shot I take up any slack and pause for a refined sight picture before releasing the shot.
I guess it is pretty ingrained because I do spend time thinking about my grip before the buzzer and where I am going with the second shot but not how I address the trigger.

[WVsig]

I just shot a pistol (action type) match yesterday and I can't say that I was ever aware of feeling the reset with either my 1911 or my M&P (apex trigger) during any of the shooting. With recoil sensation, noise and target acquiring all going on at almost the same time I did not and generally don't feel or hear a trigger reset. By the time my gun finishes the recoil cycle I see the sights and am either moving to the next target or prepping the trigger for the next shot on the same (paper) target. Even doing a quick pair (hammer to some) I am just applying pressure fast as soon as the gun is level. (Slap?)
In situations where we have a long (20+ yd.) shot I take up any slack and pause for a refined sight picture before releasing the shot.
I guess it is pretty ingrained because I do spend time thinking about my grip before the buzzer and where I am going with the second shot but not how I address the trigger.

Makes sense to me sounds like you have trained well and if I am reading it right instinctively prep the trigger with maybe a slight slap at the end.

[JohnKSa]

I guess it is pretty ingrained because I do spend time thinking about my grip...but not how I address the trigger.

That's how you want it to be.

This is how I see the progression. The general idea is not mine but I've modified it a little by adding a final stage.

• Stage one: Unconscious Incompetence. (Incompetent and not aware of the fact.)
• Stage two: Conscious Incompetence. (Incompetent but aware of the shortcoming.)
• Stage three: Conscious Competence. (Competent, but only when consciously concentrating on performing properly.)
• Stage four: Unconscious Competence. (Competent under normal circumstances even without having to concentrate on performing properly.)
• Stage five: Fully Ingrained Competence. (Competent even under extreme stress.)

The reason I added the final stage is because I think there's a difference between learning something well enough to perform on demand under normal conditions and learning it so well that you can perform even when you're under stress severe enough that you aren't in full control of your normal faculties.

[WVsig]

To sort of get back on track with my intention on this thread I find it interesting how many people talk about the reset of this pistol or that pistol being too long to too short. Almost every single review or range report in the semi-auto section of the forum mentions it but so few people have any thoughts about trigger control and how it relates to how you run a gun relation to its reset.

Hard prepping a trigger like a Sig P228 or a Glock 19 makes a lot more sense. They have some take up. The Sig has a longer reset. The Glock has a spongy trigger but a predictable break point which is allows you to hard prep the trigger effectively before the next shot.

Trying to hard prep a 1911 with 3.5lb trigger is a different story. There is nothing to take up. There is no slack and it is tough to prep 2.5lbs without getting to 3.5lb and making the gun go bang before you want it to. So it makes sense that hard core 1911 shooters would not use the hard prep method. The 1911 trigger is more like an on off switch and for some that is desirable and its short reset makes it much easier to "slap" and get fast consistent results. A Sig P228 not as much.

To me it just seems strange that so many people talk about reset but have no option on how to use that short or slow reset to their advantage by using trigger control. I personally do not think that one method is universally better than another but it sort of blows my mind so little people have a thought on the subject. 413 views only 10 votes and 16 comments from 8 different members. Seems odd to me. Maybe reset and trigger control management are not really all that important.

[Bultaco]

I know the reason I didn't vote in the poll is because I think I am using a collection of both and other. I mentioned my 1911 and M&P. I also have a CZ75SA with trigger work from CZ Custom. That pistol I believe has a 3lb. or less trigger. I can't address that trigger in the same way I do the other two I first mentioned. If I tried to hard prep that one I am looking at a possible ND. I guess that CZ probably gets some form of slap even though I know it doesn't look like what I see Rob Leatham do.
I am also a long time double action revolver competitor and unlike Miculek I use the distal joint and not the pad of my finger for revolver DA. I also tend to stage my more precise shots rather than pulling straight through as on a double tap.
I think the discussion that you propose has merit, I just think I am a bit of a chameleon when it comes to trigger work.
I do think that the short tangible or audible reset people are so excited about is something they think about during the dry fire session. I feel that in SA pistols and many striker fired pistols what they do in dry firing goes out the window when they start actually shooting. Too much recoil & noise. They may use something close to it but it's because of muscle memory, not tactile or audible perception.

[44 AMP]

I voted "other".

because I also often shoot revolvers.

Because I am from the old school that considered a 3.5lb pull on a 1911A1 to be a match gun trigger weight and NOT suitable for carry & combat.

Because

The Glock has a spongy trigger but a predictable break point which is allows you to hard prep the trigger effectively before the next shot.

not every Glock has a predictable break point.

Because I try to squeeze the trigger, not slap it.

So, I voted, "other".